:FA: Philosophy on deep striking jumpers?

[John_f]

I feel like this conundrum deserves a topic on its own. I often feel torn between keeping my jumpers in deep striking reserves or starting on the table. And I know that most of you would say that it all depends on the opposition and I guess you are right. But this doesn´t help me much I'm constantly thinking of ways to protect my jumpers. Like keeping a screen of bikes in front of them or dropping down drop pods right in front of enemy lines. But this only protect against ap2-3 shooting. This is the way I see it:

Deep striking reserves pros:

+Can get closer to enemy without getting shot to bits

+More reliable turn 3 charge

Deep striking reserves cons:

-Clumped up means more damage from flamers and templates

-Risk of mishap

-Piecemealing your army

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this subject! When you you deploy your jumpers and when do you keep them in reserve to deep strike?

[Morollan]

Deep striking reserves pros:

+Can get closer to enemy without getting shot to bits

+More reliable turn 2 charge

 

 

I assume you mean turn 3? Unless you're using the 3 Stormraven/3 Tacs formation I don't think you can achieve a turn 2 charge with deep striking BA.

[Drunken Angel]

Reserve and use Dante to make sure as much as possible drops T2.  

Same as always 5 man suicide assault squads with 2 meltas and Sgt with melta pistol/bombs deep strike like you will never scatter drop like an avenging angel, blow something up and then next turn die.

Or full squads drop into cover approx 18 inches away and run/jump into cover then survive to assault next turn.  

 

Whatever you do do lots of it at the same time to split fire ensure target saturation and ensure that squads while depleted survive to assault next turn.

[bigted]

Personally I like to have a wall of razors/rhinos to advance with their side armour facing the enemy (pivot, move, pivot) if I'm advancing jumpers up the field. This blocks LOS if you position the vehicles right. Normally I only DS with 5 man melta suicide squads, I advance my DC or SG across the board behind the wall of rhinos. I also like to use tac squads with HF and normal flamer in pods, they clean up any units that the melta squads de-mech. However, I prefer using my assault squads in pods, this way I have 2-4 melta shots per squad (depending on whether I have my sarge dual wield IPs) on turn 1 to kill any dangerous tanks or demech an enemy death star such as a squad of hammernators in a LR. Turn 2 my tacs drop down in pods and burn anyone who just had their transports destroyed. This cripples the enemy before the game has gotten underway, and the melta assault squads distract the enemy from your SG or DC advancing up the field . The only time I have my melta squads DS rather than podding is when I can't afford pods

Sorry for the rambling wall of text, it's getting late

[John_f]

 

Deep striking reserves pros:

+Can get closer to enemy without getting shot to bits

+More reliable turn 2 charge

 

 

I assume you mean turn 3? Unless you're using the 3 Stormraven/3 Tacs formation I don't think you can achieve a turn 2 charge with deep striking BA.

 

Yes, thank you!

 

Reserve and use Dante to make sure as much as possible drops T2.  

Same as always 5 man suicide assault squads with 2 meltas and Sgt with melta pistol/bombs deep strike like you will never scatter drop like an avenging angel, blow something up and then next turn die.

Or full squads drop into cover approx 18 inches away and run/jump into cover then survive to assault next turn.  

 

Whatever you do do lots of it at the same time to split fire ensure target saturation and ensure that squads while depleted survive to assault next turn.

I don't plan on running Dante. To expensive in my taste. I also use the small meltabomb, but I usually run them in a pod. And I think you are right in the fact that we need to make sure that as much as possible arrive on turn two. That relic that lets you roll twice on strategic warlord trait is becoming more and more interesting :) 

[Frater Cornelius]

If you are using Dante, why bother deep striking? He is the one that makes it possible with DoA. Less scatter and re-rolling reserves is mandatory for that. Otherwise it is strictly inferior to pods.

At 220 he is a bargain in my eyes.

[bigted]

If you are using Dante, why bother deep striking? He is the one that makes it possible with DoA. Less scatter and re-rolling reserves is mandatory for that. Otherwise it is strictly inferior to pods.

At 220 he is a bargain in my eyes.

This, this a million times! Also, if you want all the reasons Dante is awesome, there's a thread up the top of the front page discussing just that .

[John_f]

If you are using Dante, why bother deep striking? He is the one that makes it possible with DoA. Less scatter and re-rolling reserves is mandatory for that. Otherwise it is strictly inferior to pods.

At 220 he is a bargain in my eyes.

Did you mean "aren't"? I see your point..

[Frater Cornelius]

That is what I meant.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Deepstriking has become a vital strategy for me, against quite a lot of armies. Units that you reserve can't be shot at before they arrive, and the new codex does it better that the old one, however it relies on a little luck unles you take Dante.

Descent of Angels warlord trait(re-rollable) and/or Dante is the key here, but I also like to take a drop pod. What has changed from last codex is that right now, I'm going to place my tacticals in there(well, I kinda have to take them), come down turn 1 and flame some stuff. Preferably something squishy like light infantry hiding in a forest. Combined with another flame weapon from the scouting Razorback(German rule translations....don't ask ), you have what it takes to wipe out a target on turn one.
After that come the jumpers, which will probably see my Sang guard(+ characters) and assault squads come down, as well as a Raven. Lots of melta delivered right in their faces.

I like the tactical flexibility this has to offer. Very mobile armies like Tau or Eldar are hard to get hold of, so strike from the skies and burn all the xenos, explode their tanks and/or weaken their monstrous walkers. Combined with the firepower of a SR that's some damage that you dish out in one turn, hopefully crippling essential units of the opponent. Worked for me, at least.

Disadvantages of this are clear: you'll probably get shot, charged or completely wiped out, offering easy victory points, especially if you fail to complete your mission(4 meltaguns that miss? been there!). Also, parts of your army comes in piece by piece, and might get ripped apart the same way.

I'm not sure whether I'll use the Fragioso in near future. Too many units competing in the elites section. No more WS6 and no BS5 in return makes me sad.

Snorri

[Silverson]

im glad someone brought this up because i have a question related to this, im playing 2 games tomorrow the second game is 750points teamed up with an ork player (xenos scum) against a 1500 point space wolf player. we are playing what ever your usual detachment rules are half them and round up. im planing on taking 5 sanguinary guad, dante and a priest in a unit to deep strike in.

 

my question is, is it worth taking the angel's wing on the priest combined with dante's 1d6 less scatter to give even more chance of a good landing or is it a bit redundant and take a normal jump pack and spend the points in another place? I know this is only a small game so won't matter to much but it does seem like a good combo for future to me?

 

thanks in advance 

me.

[SonOfThunder]

Considering the amount of points already invested in that unit, I think those 10 points will make it more reliable if you plan to deep strike it. Only used it once, but I was really glad I had it (my unit was like yours, Dante, 5 SG, priest).

Edit: I'd wish you good luck, but considering you're running with Ork filth, I almost want the wolves to win

[Gaweda]

I'm not sure whether I'll use the Fragioso in near future. Too many units competing in the elites section. No more WS6 and no BS5 in return makes me sad.:(

 

 

Snorri

I'm running a list tonight with only one dreadnought and that's a Libby. I'm sad :(

[SnorriSnorrison]

im glad someone brought this up because i have a question related to this, im playing 2 games tomorrow the second game is 750points teamed up with an ork player (xenos scum) against a 1500 point space wolf player. we are playing what ever your usual detachment rules are half them and round up. im planing on taking 5 sanguinary guad, dante and a priest in a unit to deep strike in.

 

my question is, is it worth taking the angel's wing on the priest combined with dante's 1d6 less scatter to give even more chance of a good landing or is it a bit redundant and take a normal jump pack and spend the points in another place? I know this is only a small game so won't matter to much but it does seem like a good combo for future to me?

 

thanks in advance 

me.

 

Don't forget that any interceptor fire(or whatever this is called in english^^) is only allowed on 6's. So if there's any weapons/units with that ability, the JP is already worth it in my opinion.

 

Snorri

[Xenith]

^^ Suchas ion cannon/whatever riptides with interceptor. The weapon being blast means that they cannot shoot you at all.

 

It's a cheap upgrade, that may just save your skin.Especially with some of the Exterminatus bonuses.

[Silverson]

thanks snorri and sonofthunder, yer pitty im with the xenos but at least he can deal with the arjac formation by throwing his green bodies in the line of fire.

[bigted]

im glad someone brought this up because i have a question related to this, im playing 2 games tomorrow the second game is 750points teamed up with an ork player (xenos scum) against a 1500 point space wolf player. we are playing what ever your usual detachment rules are half them and round up. im planing on taking 5 sanguinary guad, dante and a priest in a unit to deep strike in.

 

my question is, is it worth taking the angel's wing on the priest combined with dante's 1d6 less scatter to give even more chance of a good landing or is it a bit redundant and take a normal jump pack and spend the points in another place? I know this is only a small game so won't matter to much but it does seem like a good combo for future to me?

 

thanks in advance 

me.

The relic JP is definitely worth it in an expensive deathstar, especially if the enemy has interceptor. As far as I know Space Wolves don't have any interceptor (I don't have the codex though, so not 100%) so that ability is a little redundant. I would say take it every time if you're going up against an interceptor heavy army like Tau, but in this case only take it if you have 10 spare points at the end of building your army, go for it, if not it's no big deal if you don't get it, Dante should be enough to ensure the squad arrives safely.