Ideas for the Librarius Conclave Formation

[Epimetheus13]

Here's a question: can we choose to take Command Squads for the Libbys chosen in this Formation?

 

I recall that, for the Unrelenting Hunt formation, we were able to choose Drop Pods and Land Raiders even though they weren't named as part of the Formation. So, likewise, this could be a cost-effective way to get one (or more!) (Banner-bearing) Command Squad(s) without paying a 'troops tax' or being limited by HQ slots (5 Libbys = 5 Command Squads).

 

Edit: thanks for the clarification mika_angelus and NCSUWolf!

 

Also, I echo Solrac's interpretation of the Empyric Connection rule. If we want the psykers to toggle between casting or supporting, we can move them or the focus model in/out of 12" range. This is easier if we give the Libbys bikes (or jump packs).

 

The versatility to choose the right spell at the right time is the value of this formation. I see this working really well with several Lvl 1 Libbys as "point men" moving into position, while Zeke or another Lvl 2 Libby stays behind the front lines as support, moving in/out of 12" range of either Libby to loan out their spells as the tactical situation dictates. I can't wait to try this out.

[mika_angelus]

You can only take units named in that formation. No commnad squad. A dedicated transport is part of unit options but a command squad is not.

[NCSUWolf]

Here's a question: can we choose to take Command Squads for the Libbys chosen in this Formation?

 

I recall that, for the Unrelenting Hunt formation, we were able to choose Drop Pods and Land Raiders even though they weren't named as part of the Formation. So, likewise, this could be a cost-effective way to get one (or more!) (Banner-bearing) Command Squad(s) without paying a 'troops tax' or being limited by HQ slots (5 Libbys = 5 Command Squads).

 

Also, I echo Solrac's interpretation of the Empyric Connection rule. If we want the psykers to toggle between casting or supporting, we can move them or the focus model in/out of 12" range. This is easier if we give the Libbys bikes (or jump packs).

 

The versatility to choose the right spell at the right time is the value of this formation. I see this working really well with several Lvl 1 Libbys as "point men" moving into position, while Zeke or another Lvl 2 Libby stays behind the front lines as support, moving in/out of 12" range of either Libby to loan out their spells as the tactical situation dictates. I can't wait to try this out.

 

I dont believe you can as the Command Squad isnt a part of the Librarian unit (they are only unlocked in the codex by taking an HQ) whereas a Drop Pod or an Attack Bike in the case of the Ravenwing is an upgrade in the unit's Codex Entry. You CAN change out their gear and the like as it doesnt dictate what kind of Librarian just that it has to be a Dark Angels Librarian.

[Solrac]

So ive had another idea for the Knightclave deathstar.

Zeke rolls on whatever table he wants. The rest of the plebs roll into santic to get Hammerhand and Sanctuary. If you dont need to cast Mind Worm you just get one of the other Libbys to cast the powers in case of perils. S8 Maces with 2+ inv? Yes please.

[Loar]

 

Here's a question: can we choose to take Command Squads for the Libbys chosen in this Formation?

 

I recall that, for the Unrelenting Hunt formation, we were able to choose Drop Pods and Land Raiders even though they weren't named as part of the Formation. So, likewise, this could be a cost-effective way to get one (or more!) (Banner-bearing) Command Squad(s) without paying a 'troops tax' or being limited by HQ slots (5 Libbys = 5 Command Squads).

 

Also, I echo Solrac's interpretation of the Empyric Connection rule. If we want the psykers to toggle between casting or supporting, we can move them or the focus model in/out of 12" range. This is easier if we give the Libbys bikes (or jump packs).

 

The versatility to choose the right spell at the right time is the value of this formation. I see this working really well with several Lvl 1 Libbys as "point men" moving into position, while Zeke or another Lvl 2 Libby stays behind the front lines as support, moving in/out of 12" range of either Libby to loan out their spells as the tactical situation dictates. I can't wait to try this out.

 

I dont believe you can as the Command Squad isnt a part of the Librarian unit (they are only unlocked in the codex by taking an HQ) whereas a Drop Pod or an Attack Bike in the case of the Ravenwing is an upgrade in the unit's Codex Entry. You CAN change out their gear and the like as it doesnt dictate what kind of Librarian just that it has to be a Dark Angels Librarian.

 

 

I looked at the command squad rules.  And it says that for each HQ in your ARMY you can take one (with the ravenwing/deathwing being equipment dependent of course).  And as your army is composed as any number of formations/detachments, not just your primary, i think they technically will allow you to take the extra command squads.  From a RAI perspective I don't know if this is what they wanted, but Im not seeing anything that is explesently preventing you from being able to use them this way.  Interesting if true as its a great way to get more ravenwing command squads which are just objectively better and cheaper than normal black knights.

[SvenONE]

RAW I think it's a fair point.  But given the fact our codex was probably written before, or around the time 6th was released (talking about Vetock actually working on them, not the release of the codex) I think it may be the consequence of 7th being released without properly clarifying all of the books via FAQs by GW.  

 

It's sort of a pointless circumvention though, if you're going to give the Conclave a Command Squad, you still going to need the rest of your army.  So if we're assuming the other detachment of your army is going to be DA (since the banners only benefit DA units) you're still going to have to go the straightforward route of your default HQ and 2 Troop choices which subsequently, and legally I might add, unlocks access to the command squad.

 

Not to mention if you are running a full Conclave + Command Squad you're spending in the neighborhood of close to 700 points of basically S4/T4/3+ models which would really only excel at killing other models of that type (which you can do for much cheaper and have more wounds).  It would be fun until a monstrous creature or a vehicle of any kind sat in front of you and just blasted you off the table.

[Crazy Jay]

I was just saying that DAs can't take enough librarians and this comes along. I can't wait to buy this so I can start using it.

[Kingleir]

 

 

A dakka banner command squad and 4 others with apothecarys and have librarians with pfg.

 

2 more librarians with 2 tac squads and a whole army with 3+/4++ half with fnp aswell

 

Would be a good thousand sons counts as: has divination, doesnt roll tzeentch, can upgrade librarians to lvl 2 unlike aspiring champions

[FlamingDeth]

From a painting and modeling standpoint, I know that there are a few people who have a crusade style army that consists of DA and their various successors. For them, this may represent a way to make sort of a council of the various chief librarians of the Unforgiven.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My biggest problem with it is simply that Ezekiel being on two legs means he's dead weight in any of my armies built around bikes. There's nowhere to put him. Two to four librarians on bikes would be cool, but poor 'Zeke.

[Loar]

even though its not practical or efficient points wise.  I love the idea of running this formation with a culexus, and just have him delete whole squads a turn with his pumped up psychic ray skull

[aura_enchanted]

My biggest problem with it is simply that Ezekiel being on two legs means he's dead weight in any of my armies built around bikes. There's nowhere to put him. Two to four librarians on bikes would be cool, but poor 'Zeke.

you could always stuff him into a pod with some veterans, it would cost you a rwas to do it but their are options. He could also pod in with some tacticals or stand in your backfield with some devestators spamming prescience.

[FarFromSam]

Azrael, Zeke, 3 other libbies, command squad with poth and plus one attack banner in a drop pod... Pricy, real pricy, but you'd get 10 guys with FnP, Furious Charge, 4++, WS 5, 6 levels of Psyker, with an extra attack... It's something? You could drop them near other DS termies or where bikes have scouted in order to spread out the extra libbies.  

[Solrac]

So this is the Knightclave Deathstar list I want to try. Struggle with Maelstrom but theres still some mobility in there.

 

1500 Points

 

HQ

 

Company Master
+ Mace of Redemption

 

ELITES

 

5 Deathwing Knights
+ Perfidious Relic

 

Dedicated Transport: Land Raider Crusader
+ Deathwing Vehicle

 

TROOPS

 

5 tactical Marines
+ Plasma Gun

Dedicated Transport: Rhino

 

5 tactical Marines
+ Plasma Gun

Dedicated Transport: Rhino

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

 

Vindicator
+ Siege Shield

 

Vindicator
+ Siege Shield

 

Librarius Conclave Formation

 

Ezekiel

 

Librarian
+ Mastery Lvl 2

 

Librarian
+ Mastery Lvl 2

 

STRATEGY

 

So Zeke rolls on Divination to get Prescience as a staple. Can't rely on the rest but most of the powers in there would help buff the unit (Misfortune...drool). The other two Libbys roll on Sanctic to maximise chances of getting Hammerhand and Sanctuary. Unless Mind Worm is needed it will always be one of the other Libbys casting powers in case of perils. So here we have a unit with S8 re-rolling hit Maces and 2+ Inv. The Master has S9 re-rolling with a 3+ Inv for Challenges.

 

The Knights, Master and Conclave will all be in the LRC. So here we have a unit with S8 re-rolling hit Maces and 2+ Inv. The Master has S9 re-rolling with a 3+ Inv for Challenges. The unit causes Fear and has Adamantium Will, WS6 from Zeke (WS7 on the Master) and T5 from Wall of Shields.

 

The LRC rolls up with a Vindicator on either side. Does the enemy use all its Anti-armour shots first turn to try and bring down the LRC and leave 2x S10 AP2 blasts running around? The Tac Squads go take objectives.

 

Obviously sinking so many points into one unit is a gamble but I'll do some practice games and see how we go.

[Solrac]

So just on a completely different note all together, this formation would be a really fluffy option to do a Blood Ravens army using the DA codex. Put a Librarian in each squad. Would be cool.

[SvenONE]

Idk if that's all that worth it, of the Knights weaknesses, strength isn't really the issue, it's the fact they are AP4/3.  As it stands without hammerhands they're going to be wounding MOST things in the game on a 2 anyway.  Not to mention the concalve doesn't change the fact you'll still perils on doubles of anything.

 

In a 1500 point list I see 15 infantry models and only 1 real form (assuming there's a multi-melta on that LRC) of anti vehicle.  This list might be fun but you're bringing about 350 points to buff 240 points worth of Knights, I don't really see that as giving you a real edge.

[Solrac]

Idk if that's all that worth it, of the Knights weaknesses, strength isn't really the issue, it's the fact they are AP4/3.  As it stands without hammerhands they're going to be wounding MOST things in the game on a 2 anyway.  Not to mention the concalve doesn't change the fact you'll still perils on doubles of anything.

 

In a 1500 point list I see 15 infantry models and only 1 real form (assuming there's a multi-melta on that LRC) of anti vehicle.  This list might be fun but you're bringing about 350 points to buff 240 points worth of Knights, I don't really see that as giving you a real edge.

 

This list is more a fun aspect just to see how it would work and whether the points dumped into it would pay off. I'm in no way saying that this is what you should take to a tournament.

 

I do get what your saying but I don't see it as bringing the 350 points to buff a 240 point unit. I see it as having one big unit of 600 points that can go toe to toe with anything and has the delivery to get there a la LRC.

 

The way I use Knights is I send them to the enemies biggest baddest unit first and use their smite mode. After that they go through and clean up troops choices which AP3/4 is plenty. Also I am yet to face an opponent that takes multiple 2+ armour unit besides the other Deathwing player in my meta, it's usually only one or two choices. If i'm worried about lack of AP2 the two Libbys can have Force Axes. With Hammerhand that takes them up to S7 with the Knights at the front tanking for them.

 

Also granted they already have S6, having S8 means that most T4 multi wound units or Characters only have to fail one save to be instant death. The Knights alone are pumping out a high volume of attacks and we've always got force on the 3 Librarians for Monstrous Creatures and the like.

 

Yes there is a lack of anti armour but the more they are concentrating firing onto this squad means the Vindicators are free to place S10 pie plates in their lines.

 

Only way to find out if it's effective is to do some test games.

[Loar]

I like discussions like this, if nothing else this formation has givin us something relatively uniique for DA/space marines, and a lot of options to rethink the same stale lists completely or find ways to incorporate the conclave into existing ones.  I don't want some cheese broken formation that is always an autotake anyways.

[Isiah]

Solrac were you intending to put the two Libbies in termy armour?

 

Cheers

I

[Kastor Krieg]

Lastly... and this'll earn me a trip to chamber 34.... but remember we have access to Malefic powers... ya know... to do the Emperors bidding fighting fire with fire and all that... just saying

*activates Crozius*

[Solrac]

Solrac were you intending to put the two Libbies in termy armour?

 

Cheers

I

 

In my above list no as don't have the points without taking other things that I feel are important e.g Rhinos for Tac Squads.

 

For a larger game I could see a unit of 10 Knights deep striking with 4 Mastery lvl 2 Libbys in terminator armour whilst Zeke hangs with another unit somewhere else.

 

Again putting all your eggs into one basket may not be the best idea but I think would be real fun to do.

[SvenONE]

So after talking with some friends at my local shop this weekend I've come to a conclusion that this formation isn't best used with the DA codex, but it actually shines the most with every other army.  After all this a detachment that lets you get 5 Prescience eligible Librarians who are fearless, and if you so desired could bring a PFG for their friends.

 

Thoughts that spring to mind:

Guardsman Platoons

Grav-Cannon centurions (potentially re-rolling hits? ouch)

Grav Gun White Scars Bikers

BA Assault Squads with Sanguinary Priest AND a Librarian (out of a drop pod)

And Many More!

[Kingleir]

Of course it will be better to drop your librarians into a higher tier list but that could be said about anything.

[Loar]

There's rumors that the next campaign will be an extension of the dark vengence sets, ie Dark Angels vs CSM (Crimson Slaughter).  If it follows the trend of the other campaigns these would potentially be paired with new/updated codexes as well.  I know this is just speculation at this point but the dataslate does mention "interromancy", which if we follow the trend of space wolves and blood angels could potentially be our unique psychic table. 

 

So there always exists that the viability of this formation could drastically change in the following year based on how our codex and ICs change as well as if we have our unique psychic table to consider with this on top of the normal psychic tables.  Again, nothing concrete and could all end up as nothing, but its an interesting possibility none the less.  Time will tell.

[Isiah]

Without wishing to turn this into a rumour discussion, I saw that rumour too but and couldn't decide what to make of it. And it has been heavily discredited too. Of course time will tell.

 

On DA Libbies being taken as allies: they are already flying high due to the PFG - especially on bikes.

 

Cheers

I