Talon of Horus

[Vesper]

 

I'm sure Abaddon could find a use for most any chaos warrior, wouldn't come close to being in his inner circle though.

 

Wouldn't they? I could see Abaddon putting people he hates in his inner circle, maybe even a lot of people he hates. They don't even get along with each other but they all have useful talents. I mean really what's the worry? that they'll try to kill him for his power? them and a not insignificant chunk of the black legion already.

 

You don't get to be Warmaster of the biggest Legion in the Eye by turning away good talent because of personality quirks.

 

 

I'm with DarKnight on this one. The main issue with Eidolon ain't his personality, but that he leads a band of Emperor's Children.

The Ezekarion is the Black Legion inner circle. People who became brothers thanks to their common goal and thanks to the fact they left their former Legion / Chapter behind to rot, and even though Eidolon is probably quite a powerful warlord, he just ends up in the "powerful allied warlords who might betray us at some point" column.

[Loesh]

 

 

I'm sure Abaddon could find a use for most any chaos warrior, wouldn't come close to being in his inner circle though.

 

Wouldn't they? I could see Abaddon putting people he hates in his inner circle, maybe even a lot of people he hates. They don't even get along with each other but they all have useful talents. I mean really what's the worry? that they'll try to kill him for his power? them and a not insignificant chunk of the black legion already.

 

You don't get to be Warmaster of the biggest Legion in the Eye by turning away good talent because of personality quirks.

 

 

I'm with DarKnight on this one. The main issue with Eidolon ain't his personality, but that he leads a band of Emperor's Children.

The Ezekarion is the Black Legion inner circle. People who became brothers thanks to their common goal and thanks to the fact they left their former Legion / Chapter behind to rot, and even though Eidolon is probably quite a powerful warlord, he just ends up in the "powerful allied warlords who might betray us at some point" column.

 

 

I'm not saying Eidolon is in the Ezekarion.

 

I'm saying that Abaddon turning away people from his legion because he doesn't like them is dumb at best.

[Sete]

You go to Abbadon with a poptart and you are part of his inner circle. Because every knowns there are no poptarts in the eye of Terror.

Seriously tho, I see Abby as a ruthless warlord. There were some Sons of Horus faction that he used and then killed their leader and everyone who didnt pledge to him. Thats how he rolls. If you are not with him then you are against him. Trust is in short supply even between loyalist forces.

[Space Truckin]

I got more of a Col. Kurtz vibe from Abaddon.

In fact I think one could draw a few parallels to Apocalypse Now from Talon of Horus.

I really liked Abby's portrayal by ADB yet I feel his character development is still very much a work in process. Obviously we go almost the entire book before he's introduced in Talon of Horus, but from my perspective on the novel I'm left with wanting to know more, not just about the storyline but Abbadon the character. And that's why I like his novels more than others - same thing in Betrayer with Angron and Lorgar. 2 characters and legions that I never really cared for until I read the novel.

Back to Abby - He feels like more of a dynamic personality then he was portrayed in the first 3 HH books where I would agree seeing him as more 1 dimensional warlord type.

Man I'm really looking forward to the follow up to this book more than any black library release but it looks like it might be a few years.

Disclaimer: Sorry if this was already said I'm kinda picking back up in this thread after missing 4-5 pages. Again sorry if I'm kinda jumping in here.

[Spinsanity]

I assume this has been discussed before, but I can't find it and trying to sift through this thread didn't bring anyhting up (although I barely skimmed, so might have just missed all the relevant posts, since I'm currently reading it and didn't want to spoil the story).

 

Page 163 :

"The Warmaster wields a blade that rends reality apart, and bears the claw that killed two primarchs..."

 

I'm pretty sure this is just a big "of course, how daft of me" moment, but who's the second? Clone-Horus? (because otherwise, the only other possibility would be Dorn, no?)

[Conn Eremon]

That is the assumption, and it fits better now that this clone-Horus was very much a Horus clone, rather than the best in a series of poor copies like I had originally thought.

 

However, technically it could have been any number of missing Primarchs. Pretty much only the Lion, Guilliman and Ferrus are safe, and we know Sanguinius is already one.

[DarKnight]

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch? And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

[Kriegsmacht]

 think she's a scourge. It's mentioned in the book that she has wings.

[mactire]

Read it, loved it, want more NOW. Seriously though, ADB keeps drawing me into the traitor marines.

[Sandlemad]

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch? And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

I think I saw something from ADB saying she's an example of how the tabletop rules don't always allow for the variation you see in the background. Ruleswise she's some sort of scourge solarite crossed with a wych succubus. The wings are a giveaway. You see the same thing with the Ragged Knight, who on the tabletop would be somewhere between a herald and a bloodthirster.

 

Seeing as we know the Black Legion will at some point stage an assault on Commorragh, we will probably get a better idea of her background, why she was exiled and how she wound up hanging out with Khayon.

[A D-B]

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch?

 

She's what Sandlemad said. (Thanks, Sandlemad.)

 

 

And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

 

With Space Marines? She's pretty great at killing them, yeah. With everything? No. Especially since, spoilers:

She's already dead

, so she's not exactly that great.

 

Dark Eldar lore has some truly beautiful descriptions of their capabilities, and the speed they move at in comparison to human beings. Space Marines are fast - damn fast - but eldar can be a blur even to them. Few moreso than the gladiatorial elite of Commorragh and those like them. 

 

In the example you gave, she'd most definitely worry about walking through battle-tested Chaos Marines. Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

She kills a mostly defenceless daemon blob, spars a bit with Ugrivian, and then gets plucked out of the sky immediately by Horus

.

 

The key thing to remember is that she's a champion, not a warrior or a soldier. She's not the unit leader on the front line aiming a sword and shouting "CHARGE, YOU GROX-TOUCHERS" to her loyal soldiers. She's the "Someone go wake up Achilles/Neferatri and have him/her duel this giant freakshow so we can all go home without the armies fighting" kind of person.

 

You see it in a fair slice of historical fiction and fantasy novels, where kings or warlords have a champion to fight duels or honour bouts on their (or their army's) behalf. Perhaps to spare larger bloodshed, perhaps for honour, perhaps just to see who gets first blood and inspire/demoralise the various sides. In some cases, even as representatives in a tournament or pit fight, like the way the armed forces have sports teams or boxers, and Roman Legions had wrestling champions and fistfighters, etc. In warrior cultures, it can be entertainment. But, obviously, usually it's more serious. Take the Dark Angels and Space Wolves as a good example, too. You know they want to throw down on each other.... but they re-enact the ritual duel instead, and hold to its outcome. 

 

That's Nefertari. Khayon takes her to meetings on neutral ground, and when Grossicus the Massively Yucky waves forth his champion Helbrute to fight on his behalf, Khayon clicks his fingers and calls for the Ragged Knight or Nefertari.

 

On a battlefield, in the middle of a Fury of the Legion attack, she'd probably last all of 0.3 seconds.

[Karthak]

 

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch?

 

She's what Sandlemad said. (Thanks, Sandlemad.)

 

 

And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

 

With Space Marines? She's pretty great at killing them, yeah. With everything? No. Especially since, spoilers:

She's already dead

, so she's not exactly that great.

 

Dark Eldar lore has some truly beautiful descriptions of their capabilities, and the speed they move at in comparison to human beings. Space Marines are fast - damn fast - but eldar can be a blur even to them. Few moreso than the gladiatorial elite of Commorragh and those like them. 

 

In the example you gave, she'd most definitely worry about walking through battle-tested Chaos Marines. Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

She kills a mostly defenceless daemon blob, spars a bit with Ugrivian, and then gets plucked out of the sky immediately by Horus

.

 

The key thing to remember is that she's a champion, not a warrior or a soldier. She's not the unit leader on the front line aiming a sword and shouting "CHARGE, YOU GROX-TOUCHERS" to her loyal soldiers. She's the "Someone go wake up Achilles/Neferatri and have him/her duel this giant freakshow so we can all go home without the armies fighting" kind of person.

 

You see it in a fair slice of historical fiction and fantasy novels, where kings or warlords have a champion to fight duels or honour bouts on their (or their army's) behalf. Perhaps to spare larger bloodshed, perhaps for honour, perhaps just to see who gets first blood and inspire/demoralise the various sides. In some cases, even as representatives in a tournament or pit fight, like the way the armed forces have sports teams or boxers, and Roman Legions had wrestling champions and fistfighters, etc. In warrior cultures, it can be entertainment. But, obviously, usually it's more serious. Take the Dark Angels and Space Wolves as a good example, too. You know they want to throw down on each other.... but they re-enact the ritual duel instead, and hold to its outcome. 

 

That's Nefertari. Khayon takes her to meetings on neutral ground, and when Grossicus the Massively Yucky waves forth his champion Helbrute to fight on his behalf, Khayon clicks his fingers and calls for the Ragged Knight or Nefertari.

 

On a battlefield, in the middle of a Fury of the Legion attack, she'd probably last all of 0.3 seconds.

 

Grossicus the Massively Yucky? "Remembers how appalled Khayon was at the fact that someone named their ship Skinner." Now I want him to meet someone's who is actually named that, (Or something fairly similar) just so I can see his reaction. :D

It's a pity she's going to bite it, but I hope it'll be many books before that happens. Seeing all these Legion Warlords programmed to hate Xenos with a fiery passion having to be perfectly polite to an alien because an insult to her is an insult to one of the Black Legion's Big Cheese is something I'm very much looking forward to reading.

 

"Mental gears start whirring weirdly." An odd thought just struck me: Aaron, it's been a while since I read the book, but isn't one of Iskandar's "things" that he's desperate for companionship, desperate not to be alone? I wonder where he might have wound up, had fate taken another turn. How to put this in English...(it's my third language) He so desires companionship that he's overcome the hatred Astartes are programmed to feel for the Alien (surely there was at least some conditioning even in the Great Crusade era). What if another alien had made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

Eldrad Ulthran: "There are ways to improve your companion's...condition. Several of them are known to my people."

Iskandar Khayon: Agent of Ulthwé (main reason I like this A-U idea is that I imagine Abaddon would be hilariously pissed at the fact that that meddler Eldrad put a spoke in his wheel like that.

[DarKnight]

 

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch?

 

She's what Sandlemad said. (Thanks, Sandlemad.)

 

 

And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

 

With Space Marines? She's pretty great at killing them, yeah. With everything? No. Especially since, spoilers:

She's already dead

, so she's not exactly that great.

 

Dark Eldar lore has some truly beautiful descriptions of their capabilities, and the speed they move at in comparison to human beings. Space Marines are fast - damn fast - but eldar can be a blur even to them. Few moreso than the gladiatorial elite of Commorragh and those like them. 

 

In the example you gave, she'd most definitely worry about walking through battle-tested Chaos Marines. Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

She kills a mostly defenceless daemon blob, spars a bit with Ugrivian, and then gets plucked out of the sky immediately by Horus

.

 

The key thing to remember is that she's a champion, not a warrior or a soldier. She's not the unit leader on the front line aiming a sword and shouting "CHARGE, YOU GROX-TOUCHERS" to her loyal soldiers. She's the "Someone go wake up Achilles/Neferatri and have him/her duel this giant freakshow so we can all go home without the armies fighting" kind of person.

 

You see it in a fair slice of historical fiction and fantasy novels, where kings or warlords have a champion to fight duels or honour bouts on their (or their army's) behalf. Perhaps to spare larger bloodshed, perhaps for honour, perhaps just to see who gets first blood and inspire/demoralise the various sides. In some cases, even as representatives in a tournament or pit fight, like the way the armed forces have sports teams or boxers, and Roman Legions had wrestling champions and fistfighters, etc. In warrior cultures, it can be entertainment. But, obviously, usually it's more serious. Take the Dark Angels and Space Wolves as a good example, too. You know they want to throw down on each other.... but they re-enact the ritual duel instead, and hold to its outcome. 

 

That's Nefertari. Khayon takes her to meetings on neutral ground, and when Grossicus the Massively Yucky waves forth his champion Helbrute to fight on his behalf, Khayon clicks his fingers and calls for the Ragged Knight or Nefertari.

 

On a battlefield, in the middle of a Fury of the Legion attack, she'd probably last all of 0.3 seconds.

 

I appreciate you taking the time man, thanks as always

[karden00]

 

 

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch?

 

She's what Sandlemad said. (Thanks, Sandlemad.)

 

 

And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

 

With Space Marines? She's pretty great at killing them, yeah. With everything? No. Especially since, spoilers:

She's already dead

, so she's not exactly that great.

 

Dark Eldar lore has some truly beautiful descriptions of their capabilities, and the speed they move at in comparison to human beings. Space Marines are fast - damn fast - but eldar can be a blur even to them. Few moreso than the gladiatorial elite of Commorragh and those like them. 

 

In the example you gave, she'd most definitely worry about walking through battle-tested Chaos Marines. Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

She kills a mostly defenceless daemon blob, spars a bit with Ugrivian, and then gets plucked out of the sky immediately by Horus

.

 

The key thing to remember is that she's a champion, not a warrior or a soldier. She's not the unit leader on the front line aiming a sword and shouting "CHARGE, YOU GROX-TOUCHERS" to her loyal soldiers. She's the "Someone go wake up Achilles/Neferatri and have him/her duel this giant freakshow so we can all go home without the armies fighting" kind of person.

 

You see it in a fair slice of historical fiction and fantasy novels, where kings or warlords have a champion to fight duels or honour bouts on their (or their army's) behalf. Perhaps to spare larger bloodshed, perhaps for honour, perhaps just to see who gets first blood and inspire/demoralise the various sides. In some cases, even as representatives in a tournament or pit fight, like the way the armed forces have sports teams or boxers, and Roman Legions had wrestling champions and fistfighters, etc. In warrior cultures, it can be entertainment. But, obviously, usually it's more serious. Take the Dark Angels and Space Wolves as a good example, too. You know they want to throw down on each other.... but they re-enact the ritual duel instead, and hold to its outcome. 

 

That's Nefertari. Khayon takes her to meetings on neutral ground, and when Grossicus the Massively Yucky waves forth his champion Helbrute to fight on his behalf, Khayon clicks his fingers and calls for the Ragged Knight or Nefertari.

 

On a battlefield, in the middle of a Fury of the Legion attack, she'd probably last all of 0.3 seconds.

 

I appreciate you taking the time man, thanks as always

 

 

 

 

I had a question about Nefertari, I'm not too well versed on Dark Eldar, is she a wytch?

 

She's what Sandlemad said. (Thanks, Sandlemad.)

 

 

And is she really so untouchable in one-on-one combat with an Astartes? Not tryna nitpick Aaron, but I'm just now sure how many things can just walk through battle tested Chaos Marines without worrying about it too much.

 

 

With Space Marines? She's pretty great at killing them, yeah. With everything? No. Especially since, spoilers:

She's already dead

, so she's not exactly that great.

 

Dark Eldar lore has some truly beautiful descriptions of their capabilities, and the speed they move at in comparison to human beings. Space Marines are fast - damn fast - but eldar can be a blur even to them. Few moreso than the gladiatorial elite of Commorragh and those like them. 

 

In the example you gave, she'd most definitely worry about walking through battle-tested Chaos Marines. Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

She kills a mostly defenceless daemon blob, spars a bit with Ugrivian, and then gets plucked out of the sky immediately by Horus

.

 

The key thing to remember is that she's a champion, not a warrior or a soldier. She's not the unit leader on the front line aiming a sword and shouting "CHARGE, YOU GROX-TOUCHERS" to her loyal soldiers. She's the "Someone go wake up Achilles/Neferatri and have him/her duel this giant freakshow so we can all go home without the armies fighting" kind of person.

 

You see it in a fair slice of historical fiction and fantasy novels, where kings or warlords have a champion to fight duels or honour bouts on their (or their army's) behalf. Perhaps to spare larger bloodshed, perhaps for honour, perhaps just to see who gets first blood and inspire/demoralise the various sides. In some cases, even as representatives in a tournament or pit fight, like the way the armed forces have sports teams or boxers, and Roman Legions had wrestling champions and fistfighters, etc. In warrior cultures, it can be entertainment. But, obviously, usually it's more serious. Take the Dark Angels and Space Wolves as a good example, too. You know they want to throw down on each other.... but they re-enact the ritual duel instead, and hold to its outcome. 

 

That's Nefertari. Khayon takes her to meetings on neutral ground, and when Grossicus the Massively Yucky waves forth his champion Helbrute to fight on his behalf, Khayon clicks his fingers and calls for the Ragged Knight or Nefertari.

 

On a battlefield, in the middle of a Fury of the Legion attack, she'd probably last all of 0.3 seconds.

 

 

As Darknight said, Great to have an author give his input on the source material. It is a unique privilege, thanks for all that AD-B. 

Good to note that the *two primarchs* wasn't cleared up. We could be in for a neat surprise, who knows...

[Firepower]

 

 "GROX-TOUCHERS" 

 

And yet one more Chapter for the list of IA's I wish I had the patience to write. :D

[b1soul]

Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

Aaron, what do you think makes a SM or CSM "hero" or "lord" so much more powerful than their "regular" peers?

 

Do you think SM heroes like Sigismund benefit from a little bit more than superior skill and somewhat superior physical stats? For instance, could faith in the Emperor (or even just supreme self-confidence) somehow enhance a Loyalist hero because 40K is a setting where belief and reality are intertwined?

 

I'm just curious about your PoV. Or perhaps maybe you think that the Astartes creation process allows for a lot of variation, i.e. upon "elevation", some Astartes end up being a lot stronger and faster than others

[Vesper]

 

Do you think SM heroes like Sigismund benefit from a little bit more than superior skill and somewhat superior physical stats? For instance, could faith in the Emperor (or even just supreme self-confidence) somehow enhance a Loyalist hero because 40K is a setting where belief and reality are intertwined?

Just like our, dude.

Take the first Crusade. Tens of thousand of French, most being poor lads with no military background, cross thousands of kilometers on foot and take the Holy Land on faith alone for the most part.

[DarKnight]

 

Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

Aaron, what do you think makes a SM or CSM "hero" or "lord" so much more powerful than their "regular" peers?

 

Do you think SM heroes like Sigismund benefit from a little bit more than superior skill and somewhat superior physical stats? For instance, could faith in the Emperor (or even just supreme self-confidence) somehow enhance a Loyalist hero because 40K is a setting where belief and reality are intertwined?

 

I'm just curious about your PoV. Or perhaps maybe you think that the Astartes creation process allows for a lot of variation, i.e. upon "elevation", some Astartes end up being a lot stronger and faster than others

 

I'm interested to see what Aaron's opinion of this is. As a kid I always asked myself, "Why is Michael Jordan so much better than everyone else?" In conditions where everyone is more or less responsible for their own progress in skill, some inevitably get better than others. But I think we're forgetting that Astartes specialize in a wide range of things. I'd expect a minimum baseline of competence with a weapon that would not be something to be shamed in, but some guys would prefer learning more about armored warfare or void combats or maintenance of wargear etc. Some personally place more importance on ranged warfare and the superiority of heavy weaponry and float toward those specializations, others just come from cultures where dueling/swordplay isn't as highly regarded. I wouldn't expect a Night Lord (Nostroman) to be able to last in a traditional sword duel with a Fist or Dark Angel more often than not, with no disrespect to the skill of the NL. 

[Thedarkprincesnun]

Do we know when this book will be getting released again?

[OliverE]

Greetings brothers.

This book is definetly my favorite W40k book and here are the reasons for it :

1. The perspective of the narrator : I always liked when books are told from the perspective of the main character (In Germany we call that I-Narrator) because you can get inside in the thinking of said character.

2. Minimal Bolter-porn : The older I get, the more I am bored by it because it is pretty much the same every time and quite frankly I am more interesting in character-development and the motivations behind the characters.

3. Portrayal of the CSM : I like that the CSM are not portrayed as the stereotypical CSMs, instead they are diverse and complicated.

4. Interesting Characters : Every Character in the book is interesting and has its own motivations,flaws and strength.

5. Interesting demons : They are not based on the tabletop-demons and are more like I imagine chaosdemons.

6. Abaddon : So much more interesting in this one book than all the other fluff.

7. So much more Background : or fluff > action.

I could say so much more, but my english is limited...so I will leave it at that.

P.S.: Why is it that every W40k book I read from A.-D.-B. is quickly moving on my favorite list ?

[b1soul]

 

 

Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

 

Aaron, what do you think makes a SM or CSM "hero" or "lord" so much more powerful than their "regular" peers?

Do you think SM heroes like Sigismund benefit from a little bit more than superior skill and somewhat superior physical stats? For instance, could faith in the Emperor (or even just supreme self-confidence) somehow enhance a Loyalist hero because 40K is a setting where belief and reality are intertwined?

I'm just curious about your PoV. Or perhaps maybe you think that the Astartes creation process allows for a lot of variation, i.e. upon "elevation", some Astartes end up being a lot stronger and faster than others

I'm interested to see what Aaron's opinion of this is. As a kid I always asked myself, "Why is Michael Jordan so much better than everyone else?" In conditions where everyone is more or less responsible for their own progress in skill, some inevitably get better than others. But I think we're forgetting that Astartes specialize in a wide range of things. I'd expect a minimum baseline of competence with a weapon that would not be something to be shamed in, but some guys would prefer learning more about armored warfare or void combats or maintenance of wargear etc. Some personally place more importance on ranged warfare and the superiority of heavy weaponry and float toward those specializations, others just come from cultures where dueling/swordplay isn't as highly regarded. I wouldn't expect a Night Lord (Nostroman) to be able to last in a traditional sword duel with a Fist or Dark Angel more often than not, with no disrespect to the skill of the NL.

Michael Jordan can't beat an opposing 5-man team by himself

 

Guys like Sigismund, Abaddon could probably carve through a dozen enemy SM "regulars"

[DarKnight]

 

 

 

Although Khayon says he's seen her duel warlords without breaking a sweat, we only ever see her do... well, practically nothing.

Aaron, what do you think makes a SM or CSM "hero" or "lord" so much more powerful than their "regular" peers?

Do you think SM heroes like Sigismund benefit from a little bit more than superior skill and somewhat superior physical stats? For instance, could faith in the Emperor (or even just supreme self-confidence) somehow enhance a Loyalist hero because 40K is a setting where belief and reality are intertwined?

I'm just curious about your PoV. Or perhaps maybe you think that the Astartes creation process allows for a lot of variation, i.e. upon "elevation", some Astartes end up being a lot stronger and faster than others

I'm interested to see what Aaron's opinion of this is. As a kid I always asked myself, "Why is Michael Jordan so much better than everyone else?" In conditions where everyone is more or less responsible for their own progress in skill, some inevitably get better than others. But I think we're forgetting that Astartes specialize in a wide range of things. I'd expect a minimum baseline of competence with a weapon that would not be something to be shamed in, but some guys would prefer learning more about armored warfare or void combats or maintenance of wargear etc. Some personally place more importance on ranged warfare and the superiority of heavy weaponry and float toward those specializations, others just come from cultures where dueling/swordplay isn't as highly regarded. I wouldn't expect a Night Lord (Nostroman) to be able to last in a traditional sword duel with a Fist or Dark Angel more often than not, with no disrespect to the skill of the NL.

Michael Jordan can't beat an opposing 5-man team by himself

 

Guys like Sigismund, Abaddon could probably carve through a dozen enemy SM "regulars"

 

We're talking about two different things though, there isn't really a basketball equivalent of taking on five guys at once (no matter what Kobe Bryant thinks). As far as his skill level being as far above a baseline NBA player as Sigismund's skill with a blade is over a baseline astartes, they're probably comparable no?

[HeritorA]

And so again A D-B has saved a thread. With brutal Lheorvine Ukris logic and Khayon set of cards

[lordhellblade]

I really enjoyed this book.

 

This is what got me into 40k, the books.

 

Anyway, crunch wise Sigismund would be at a disadvantage because he would be using the Sword of the High Marshals.

 

But it really doesn't matter it'll be an epic fight.

 

I really don't want him to die because he's one of my favorite characters.

 

But to quote RWBY since I love that show so much.

 

Even brilliant lights will cease to burn.

 

Sigismund dying marks the end of an era.

 

Him dying marks the end of the Great Crusade.

 

Because even though the Black Templars continue the Eternal Crusade, things will never be the same again.

[Taliesin]

Paperback reprint to be released in December:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Talon-Horus-Black-Legion/dp/1784960497/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1457368582&sr=1-5&refinements=p_30%3AGames+Workshop