Basic Mephiston Red spray question.

[ServoBadger]

Does it need an undercoat?

 

I sprayed my Deathstorm Terminators without one and the result is, well, burgundy. Admittedly I was expecting something a lot darker than the Army Painter Pure Red I have been using, but I had thought it would be more, well, red, from the pictures in the painting guide.

[sp4rky]

I had a similar issue, now I use a black undercoat first which has the added benefit of any bits missed by the red spray show as dark shadows instead of hideous grey model colour :)

[ServoBadger]

Thanks for the reply, how much different is the colour over the black undercoat?

[Cyrox]

Yes it needs an undercoat. It goes quite nicely over chaos black. 

 

Just spray the red in multiple light coats

[veneratedaniel]

you can get away with out needing an undercoat, i will be doing this after christmas as i know there are some things from the Emerha for me there, but i have done the green spry before on my orcs, to draken it down just give it a wash or glaze or 2 should be fine after that, its recommended that you undercoat but you don't NEED it.

[awilden]

Has anyone had issues with paint not sticking or coming off of the model later? I've been under the assumption an undercoat was absolutely necessary, not just for looks, but also for long term care of your models (along with a varnish coat at the end).

I've actually been using Vallejo polyurethane surface primer, I bought a German Red Brown primer and have seen guides with that then Vallejo fire red and then another lighter red on top and it looked very nice.

[Red-beard]

I have never tried it without first applying an undercoat. I always use a chaos black undercoat for Blood Angels.

[veneratedaniel]

what i have been doing for a while now is giving the sprews a nice warm wash with some soapy water, i saw it on a tutorial a few years back and its meant to take of the releasing agent used in the factory. if this actually does anything in not 100% sure but it has become some sort of a habit, i have washed models that have been built before and i feel like there is a better grip that the paint gets, but that is just me and i might be bias. 

[Ebsolom]

I've always used a black primer for my models, gives something for the basecoat to "grip" to.

[TheHarrower]

From pics I've seen it looks like you need an undercoat. For this reason alone I'm going to stick with Army Painters Dragon Red. Looks really close to Mephiston Red and you can skip spraying them twice.

[Landrick]

Anyone have some comparison pics? With and without black undercoat? Or next to another red like Dragon red?

[depthcharge12]

I swear by putting down a black primer first. It helps keep the paint down, provides shadows, and helps to evenly coat the model.

 

I'd recommend using the red spray after a primer :)

[d@n]

Yes you will need an undercoat, dragon red from army painter works well.

[ServoBadger]

Well.  This time I used a chaos black undercoat.... and the colour is still burgundy.  Much darker than the painting guide.  I'm at a bit of a loss!  The models just aren't... red.

[depthcharge12]

Well Justin Bieber- I mean Justin B you'll need to do highlights and maybe another coat.

 

You'll see a big difference

[ServoBadger]

I will of course try that.  However I can't help thinking that I must be doing something catastrophically, stupidly wrong.

 

If anyone happens to spray a model with Mephiston Red in the near future, would they be kind enough to post a picture - just sprayed, no highlighting or anything, so I have a basis for comparison?

 

Thanks.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I always use a black primer when painting tactical marines and assault marines. I use white when painting death company and sanguinary guard.

I tired the bloodletter glaze over mephiston red and it made it too orange. I think highlighting with evil suns scarlet and some of the medium (forget the name, laymen?)  mixed together gives a richer red.

 

End of Line

[Bat33.1]

what i have been doing for a while now is giving the sprews a nice warm wash with some soapy water, i saw it on a tutorial a few years back and its meant to take of the releasing agent used in the factory. if this actually does anything in not 100% sure but it has become some sort of a habit, i have washed models that have been built before and i feel like there is a better grip that the paint gets, but that is just me and i might be bias. 

 

This +1

 

You will see this recommended in any plastic modelling magazine or guide, release agent, grease from finger prints, etc will all stop paint from getting a grip on plastic. I've seen recommendations to just spray with Windolene then rinse off with warm water. Windolene is also very good for cleaning out airbrushes after using acrylics too.

[depthcharge12]

I will of course try that. However I can't help thinking that I must be doing something catastrophically, stupidly wrong.

 

If anyone happens to spray a model with Mephiston Red in the near future, would they be kind enough to post a picture - just sprayed, no highlighting or anything, so I have a basis for comparison?

 

Thanks.

Did you check out the handy GW painting tutorial by celeb star Duncan on how he paints his?

 

I think he paints it on but uses the same color and uses a brush but uses the same color. He does offer the can and shows how it turns out.

 

Trust me, once you do dry brush highlight of the model in the same way he does, it'll pop out.

[LutherMax]

The undercoat colour will definitely affect any subsequent layers, especially with red. I did a little tutorial which may be relevant (here: http://www.themightybrush.com/?p=336). Sounds like the Mephiston Red spray is similar to my Vallejo German Redbrown, so I use that for the mid tone and German Dark Yellow for the highlight.

[TheHarrower]

 

what i have been doing for a while now is giving the sprews a nice warm wash with some soapy water, i saw it on a tutorial a few years back and its meant to take of the releasing agent used in the factory. if this actually does anything in not 100% sure but it has become some sort of a habit, i have washed models that have been built before and i feel like there is a better grip that the paint gets, but that is just me and i might be bias.

 

 

This +1

 

You will see this recommended in any plastic modelling magazine or guide, release agent, grease from finger prints, etc will all stop paint from getting a grip on plastic. I've seen recommendations to just spray with Windolene then rinse off with warm water. Windolene is also very good for cleaning out airbrushes after using acrylics too.

I assume you mean Windex (the spray for cleaning windows)? While it works fine for cleaning off release agent I wouldn't recommend running it through an airbrush. It breaks down the internal seals and ruins them. Specialty airbrush cleaner is the way to go.

[kamedake88]

Replying to the above post and the overall thread topic.

 

I have a few cans of Mephiston Red from 2013 that have been a great boon in painting my Scions army. The one caveat being the color is quite different from the paint in the pot. Imagine my horror when I was touching up a taurox after a wash to see the mismatch in colors. I called customer service recently and I was informed of the reason for them removing the product from their stores was to rectify the very problem I had. I have yet to test out a new can to verify their claim but I assume the problem has been fixed.

 

As to spraying the color paints over bare plastic, I don't recommend it. Especially since these paints with the exception of the two color primers are Acrylics, lacking any sort of solvent used to eat into the plastic and bind it there. The later mentioned primers being enamel paints naturally do this and it is why they are called "primers" by gw.

 

As to using Windex in an Airbrush. I have been painting scale models now for almost a decade and a half, starting out with scale airplanes and Gundams and moving on to scale tanks and the such now, in conjunction with my warhammer hobby. I have, as many in the hobby, been using Windex as the go to thinner and cleaner for my airbrushes. The key is to use water as a second rinse whenever you do color changes. There seems to be a huge lack of general airbrush knowledge in the war gaming hobby due to, I think, most people using it as a tool to do base coats and priming rather than any in depth painting. Some of my friends due to poor maintenance of their airbrush go through them yearly when I'm still using my old Paasche and Harder &Steinbeck from a decade ago. If you're curious about airbrushes I'd suggest looking in Hobby magazines and website that cater to scale modelers rather than info sources for gamers.

 

Also seal wear and breakage is usually due to most hobbyists not know that you need to lube your airbrush using needle lube every time you thoroughly clean it.

[Karhedron]

I always prime first. For BAs I normally use a white primer as I like a bright vivid red but recently I have started using Halfords Red car primer for a deeper colour. It does not need to be a heavy coat but it gives the real paint something to grip and assures a more even colour.

 

I always try to choose a colour of primer that means the main paint has to do the least work. The list below is my general rule of thumb.

 

Grey primer: Blues, greens or light browns

Black primer: Dark colours and metallics.

White Primer: Yellow, orange or red.

Red Primer: Some red, particularly vehicles

[awilden]

The undercoat colour will definitely affect any subsequent layers, especially with red. I did a little tutorial which may be relevant (here: http://www.themightybrush.com/?p=336). Sounds like the Mephiston Red spray is similar to my Vallejo German Redbrown, so I use that for the mid tone and German Dark Yellow for the highlight.

That's an excellent tutorial, may have to give that a go, do you think instead of the Vallejo German Dark Yellow primer pre-highlight it'd work with Vallejo White primer?