Against Tyranids

[Ganders]

So I'm more of a painter than a gamer but the guy I do play against regularly has started a Tyranid army and I'm looking for some advice on how I should be setting up my Flesh Tearers. And to what I should add (thinking flamers).

 

I paint models based on fluff and cool models rather than competiveness but the army I currently have is;

 

Seth

Captain with JP, power sword and plasma pistol

Terminator Captain with LCs

Chaplin with JP and plasma pistol

Priest

Priest with JP

Librarian (Power Armour)

Astorath

 

5 man Vanguard Veterans with JPs (Axe, PF, LCs)

Furiso Dread with various load-out

5 man Terminator Assalt Squad (mix of LC and TH/SS)

 

10 man Tactical Squad (with ML and plasma gun)

10 Assault Squad with JPs (2 plasma pistols & PF)

6 man Assault Squad (hand flamer)

10 man Death Company (Hammer, PF, 2 plasma pistols)

5 man scout squad (shotguns & bolters)

 

3 man Bike Squad with melta gun

2 Drop Pods

Razorback with LC

 

I also have a large Grey Knights army, Imperial Knight, Vindicatre assassin and Inquistor and large retinue if allies would be good. I like the Flesh Tearer fluff and I'm not keen on devastators , sang guard kinda thing. I feel they don't fit.

 

So any advice on what I should be adding or tweaking would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[SnorriSnorrison]

It's not a bad idea to add some of the units from Shield of Baal: Deathstorm, since they all have preferred enemy: tyranids. At least the Captain and the terminator squad do, not sure about the DC and dread.

 

For starters, I'd go with a solid core selection of Tacticals, perhaps in a pod, and scouts. The former can give some short-ranged fire support against swarms and are not too fragile. Without support however they'll get cut down pretty quickly.

 

Assault squads are fast now, but a squad of ten can't hurt. Flamers or meltaguns,  take your pick. Are you going to face more monstrous creatures or lots of gaunts, stealers, etc? That would be my concern when deciding the loadout.

 

DC are always a sound investment, especially against tyranids they can mow down large blobs of infantry and monstrous creatures in close combat.

I'd stay away from small units of five(except scouts, but then they're not expected to survive), because normally 'nids have the weight of fire and attacks to severely damage them in one turn, or wipe them out completely.

 

 

Snorri

[Nova_chron]

My regular opponent is a tyranid player and he has gone to a monsters list very little in the way of little bugs my best advice is to put the pressure on early and don't stop I love the fragioso dread on turn one because it will always make him turn around to deal with me and I can use the distraction to pick fights on my terms. I like meltaguns but if you are facing swarm lists flames are probably better. And I would add either a storm raven or a land raider to your list.

[Emperor's Instrument]

What points level are you playing at? I'm asking this specifically in relation to you having a Knight at your disposal because for the fire support it would definitely be in my list. The one or two templates are clearly going to soften big units of little bugs and then if there is a few problem monstrous creatures, it's Reaper Chainsword will make a miss too (obviously depending how many hits you land).

 

I'd have to advocate joining both Astorath and the Chaplain with your DC to get hit and wound re-rolls in that first round of combat when you get there.

 

Don't underestimate the smaller bugs though, a unit of thirty hormaguants (potentially upgraded with adrenal glands and toxins sacs) will not be nice in combat. If possible, try and splat synapse creatures too so that your opponent has to start making leadership tests before he can move things.

[Red-beard]

Tyranids are a short range army that have limited anti-tank options. Anything you bring that has high power long range shooting will cause problems for them. I'd suggest some devastators or Predators w/ lascannons. Sit back and fire the long range weapons at high priority targets to soften them up as they march across the board towards you. Have your DC/AM sit back and wait. When the 'nids are close, assault them, hitting them hard.  

 

Also, high AV vehicles give Tyranids problems. For example, a LR can be very effective. Only a few things in their codex can reliably hurt the AV14...take those units out first and your LR can do whatever it wants without being threatened. Furiosos are also difficult for 'nids to handle. 

[sockwithaticket]

It's a shame you don't have any Baals. Twin-linked assault cannons + Heavy Bolter sponsons (on a fast tank) is a lot of AP4 shots coming his way. Hell, against a swarm of little bugs even the Flamestorm turret might find some use.

Telling you what to pick and choose from your collection very much depends on what he's bringing to the party; lots of big bugs, a swarm of small ones or a hybrid?

[hairojin]

Does anybody have any experience with the new codex playing against flying MC heavy lists? I have a nid friend that likes to field at least two of them and haven't played against him with BA yet, only with my Eldar. I know a Storm Raven would be good but can't fit it in my list, what other units would work?

[Rafen IX]

Well devastators can get flakk missiles now which is ok I guess. Couple them with an aegis defense line and quad gun and that will put the pressure on at least one of them then your stormraven can take care of the other :D

[Chaplain Admetus]

Does anybody have any experience with the new codex playing against flying MC heavy lists? I have a nid friend that likes to field at least two of them and haven't played against him with BA yet, only with my Eldar. I know a Storm Raven would be good but can't fit it in my list, what other units would work?

 

Definitely try and squeeze the Raven in. Otherwise, it depends very much on the style of MC he fields. Harpy, Crone or Flyrant?

[hairojin]

He likes to mix it up between them, always at least one flyrant but my question is more generally how we deal with flying MC without taking an expensive flyer. Can we ignore them and use our speed to stay away or do we have to bring counter units? I'm really interested in hearing other people's experiences with the new codex.

[Ganders]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Points wise I think we'll wait till he has 1000 points before having a game. The only models I know my opponent has for sure at the moment is a couple of Carnifexs and a Trygon (I think).

 

I have enough bitz to add a few melta/flamer/plasma marines to squads, including the bike squad if needed. A Baal Predator is on the shopping list along with a third Drop Pod and Death Company Dread. My Grey Knights army contains a Raven but we've always had an unwritten rule about not bring anything too unbalanced which makes me think it might be rude to include the Knight.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Twin linked devourers will glance nearly any vehicle to death and quickly. Flying tyrants can shoot these in any direction, so they don't have a hard time getting in position. Space marines get their 3+ save, and finding a way to get FNP is even better against all the shots. 

 

Malanthropes provide +2 cover within a bubble. So, should they have malanthropes with flying tyrants you're looking at a 2+ cover save. Storm ravens not only can't shoot that down, flying tyrants will out maneuver them and take the stormravens down. If you've got terminators with priests you can probably ignore the flying tyrants to some degree as they'll shrug off the shooting. Get into combat quickly and push very hard at their ground troops at all costs.

 

Mawlocks will kill space marines wholesale on open ground. Spread out and use multiple small units to minimize the damage. Get into hand to hand as soon as possible so the tyranid player won't risk his own troops at the Mawlock's deepstrike. 

 

Shadow of the warp could be a problem for your psykers. Tyranids can generate a lot of warp charges as well to shut you down--maledictions might not be too successful.

 

Remember monstrous creatures have "smash." So, you'll need to handle them with some attacks at high initiative or gun them down. Waiting to swing a powerfist isn't a great option. 

 

Despite what many had said online, the Tyranids were a very dangerous and versatile army to fight--then they got more formations and a bunch of new kits. 

[Red-beard]

Twin linked devourers will glance nearly any vehicle to death and quickly. Flying tyrants can shoot these in any direction, so they don't have a hard time getting in position. Space marines get their 3+ save, and finding a way to get FNP is even better against all the shots.

Malanthropes provide +2 cover within a bubble. So, should they have malanthropes with flying tyrants you're looking at a 2+ cover save. Storm ravens not only can't shoot that down, flying tyrants will out maneuver them and take the stormravens down. If you've got terminators with priests you can probably ignore the flying tyrants to some degree as they'll shrug off the shooting. Get into combat quickly and push very hard at their ground troops at all costs.

Mawlocks will kill space marines wholesale on open ground. Spread out and use multiple small units to minimize the damage. Get into hand to hand as soon as possible so the tyranid player won't risk his own troops at the Mawlock's deepstrike.

Shadow of the warp could be a problem for your psykers. Tyranids can generate a lot of warp charges as well to shut you down--maledictions might not be too successful.

Remember monstrous creatures have "smash." So, you'll need to handle them with some attacks at high initiative or gun them down. Waiting to swing a powerfist isn't a great option.

Despite what many had said online, the Tyranids were a very dangerous and versatile army to fight--then they got more formations and a bunch of new kits.

TL devourers only have 18" range, so they can only be fired if they're in your face. They are S6, so can't penetrate our front armor on predators/vindicators...just hide your side armor and you'll be fine (can use the board edge or another vehicle, etc). Also, our fast vehicles can outrun their MCs. Against Land Raiders, devourers are useless. If they're coming from flying hive tyrants, cause a wound to them and force them to make a grounding check. If they fail it, you can assault them in the assault phase.

Malanthropes are nasty, no doubt, and probably the scariest model in the Tyranid lists due to how much they buff the units around them by giving shrouded. The key to defeating them is to get past their cover save. Concentrate on the malanthropes and kill them first because they give shrouded to the surrounding units. Fortunately, there are no cover saves in close combat . Note these are FW models, so you'll only face them in games that permit FW.

Few 'nid players use Mawlocs. If they do bring Mawlocs, their list is going to be highly random, depending on both a good reserve roll and on not scattering when deep striking. Keep in mind that Mawlocs will damage the Tyranid player's own army if they scatter onto them, so if you're in close quarters, they will be hesitant to target you for fear of hurting their own forces. Also, the Mawloc's two S6 attacks aren't much of a threat to vehicles....stay in your rhinos. Lictors will allow Mawlocs to enter without scattering, so if they're fielding Lictors w/ Mawlocs, kill the Lictors.

Smash was majorly nerfed in 7E an is not a major threat. It's only one attack now at I1 instead of half the number of attacks. The overwhelming majority of Tyranid MCs are WS3, so will need a 4+ to hit you with that single attack....that is if they survive long enough to use it.

Tyranids do have a lot of formations and some new models. However, neither of those things change the fundamental issues with Tyranid codex....their shooting is all short range (mostly 12-18") and most of their big MCs are slow moving creatures that have WS3 with 3 attacks which means they're only landing 1-2 attacks per round (Hive Tyrants are one exception, so kill those first). Also, they only have one 2+ model in their entire codex and almost no options to gain an invuln save making them very squishy in close combat where their only save is a 3+ or 4+ armor save. If you take a power sword/maul, they are getting no saves at all in close combat. We're hitting them on 3's and, with furious charge, wounding them on 5's (power sword) or 3's (power maul).

The new Tyranid drop pods cost more than 2x as many points as our pods and can only carry a single MC. They can't arrive turn 1, so alpha strike is out. The biggest threat here is them dropping some heavy shooters on top of you in round 2. If that happens, your armor should allow you to survive long enough to charge them on your turn.

Shadow of the warp is a joke. It was great in 6E, but with the changes to psychic powers in 7E, it now has almost zero impact. The only time it comes into play is if your psyker perils and has to make a leadership check....nothing to worry about here. Tyranids can field 6 levels worth of psykers without problem. You'll rarely see lists with more psychic levels than that. Six dice, while more than BA usually run, is not going to be enough to allow them to shut down your psychic rounds. They aren't like Chaos Daemons that can easily field an army with 16 psychic levels.

[Dafoo]

Every threat in the Tyranid codex can be answered by devastators with missile launchers. Skyfire Missiles wound on a 3+ to tyrants and autowound their harpies and crones on a 2+. Other than the Tyranofex you Autowound MC's on a 2+ and ID Warriors. Not to mention blast markers help with hordes wounding gaunts and genestealers on 3+ ignoring armor. Send a specialist unit to take out Venomthropes and the like or use the Heavy Flamer Tac squad set up. Happy hunting.