ICs and formations ...

[Isiah]

Apologies if this had been addressed already, just point me in the right direction if it has.

 

The DA's Conclave of Librarians formation released yeterday consists of Ezekiel and 1-4 Librarians. This formation has several special rules that buffs its members' psychic prowess.

 

If this formation is taken with a DA CAD, or any SM CAD for that matter, and the formation's Librarians are attached to other DA/SM units then the buffs from the Conclave formation still apply?

 

I'm not quite getting my head around what happens when units from different formations/detachments, that have specific special rules, combine or attach.

 

Cheers

I

[Wraith776]

I think with that specific formation is that only those taken as part of the formation can benefit from the special rules the formation gives, regardless of who they are attached to or any other IC's attached to that same unit. It specifically says under both rules that only the models part of the formation are effected by the rules.

[Quixus]

Exactly. Any unit can only ever be part of a single detachment (formations are just a special form of detachment). Whether any special rules of the formation apply to more than the formation itself is in the drules for that formation. I have not seen that formation, so I cannot say anything specific.

[Cactus]

Isiah's question is how that interacts with the Independent Character rule that says he is now part of that unit "for all rules purposes". Is the librarian no longer part of the Conclave formation because he is now part of a unit from another detachment? If that's the case then he is no longer eligible to use the formation's Empyric Connection rule.

[Quixus]

Well either the mandatory librarian stays part of the formation or there is no more formation. I guess the OP should send an email to GW to get that question answered or even FAQed.

 

I'd say formations and their rules are part of the army building process and there is no rule that formations can be broken up during the game.

[Isiah]

Well either the mandatory librarian stays part of the formation or there is no more formation. I guess the OP should send an email to GW to get that question answered or even FAQed.

 

I'd say formations and their rules are part of the army building process and there is no rule that formations can be broken up during the game.

This is my take. I just wanted other eyes on it. I too assumed that if any Libby attached himself to a non-conclave formation unit the he'd no longer be part of the original formation and he'd lose the psychic buffs it conferred.

 

But other people aren't seeing it that way.

 

Cheers

I

[Kristoff]

Well either the mandatory librarian stays part of the formation or there is no more formation. I guess the OP should send an email to GW to get that question answered or even FAQed.

 

I'd say formations and their rules are part of the army building process and there is no rule that formations can be broken up during the game.

Just because Grimaldus joins a squad of Ultramarines doesn't mean he loses Black Templar Tactics and gains Ultramarine Tactics.

 

So while the Formation is broken up in terms of where they are on the table, they are still part of their Formation, so still have their Formation bonuses.

[Quixus]

I too assumed that if any Libby attached himself to a non-conclave formation unit the he'd no longer be part of the original formation and he'd lose the psychic buffs it conferred.

That is not quite what I'm saying. Either the librarians and Zeke are in the formation no matter which unit they join, or as soon as Zeke or the last librarian joins another unit there is no more Formation.

[Kristoff]

 

I too assumed that if any Libby attached himself to a non-conclave formation unit the he'd no longer be part of the original formation and he'd lose the psychic buffs it conferred.

That is not quite what I'm saying. Either the librarians and Zeke are in the formation no matter which unit they join, or as soon as Zeke or the last librarian joins another unit there is no more Formation.

When do you change detachment by joining a unit from another detachment? Where does it say that?

[Dam13n]

So you have a Formation with Ezekiel and 1-4 Librarians.  These models will benefit from the Formation's Special Rules.

If you then have another Librarian that is part of a Combined Arms (or Allied) Detachment, that Librarian will not normally benefit from the Formation's Special Rules as he isn't part of it.

 

A model can only belong to 1 Detachment or Formation.  No matter what happens during the game, those models are always considered to be a part of the Detachment or Formation they were purchased for.

 

However, if a unit contained a Librarian from a Formation and a Librarian not from a Formation, the non-Formation Librarian might end up benefiting from those Formation Special Rules depending upon the wording of those rules.

 

In this case:

- Empyric Connection cannot benefit a non-Formation Librarian because the rule includes the restrictions "...you can nominate one model from this formation..." and "...other models from this formation..."

- Focussed Interromancy also cannot benefit a non-Formation Librarian because the rule includes the restriction "...models in this formation..."

 

So in this case, the Conclave of Librarians Special Rules only affect Ezekiel and the 1-4 Librarian that are purchased as part of the Formation.  But will not affect any models not purchased as part of the Formation.

 

Also, because the models purchased as part of the Formation are always a part of the Formation, they will always benefit from the Formation's Special Rules.

[Quixus]

Also, because the models purchased as part of the Formation are always a part of the Formation, they will always benefit from the Formation's Special Rules.

Is it that clear that units bought as part of a formation always remain part of that formation? ICs have this rule:

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

It does not say that he also counts as part of the unit (from another detachment) for all rules purposes, so maybe he is no longer part of the formation. forget it. The rule does not say that he loses his status as part of the formation, so he keeps it.

[Isiah]

Ok thanks all :tu: