rgr_maddog Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I questioned this in the FAQ thread, but bot few responses and though I'd bring it up again here. The rules state I can upgrade a TDA power weapon to a chain fist or storm shield (or the other options). The FAQ states I can upgrade the storm bolter to a power axe. Can I upgrade the now two power weapons to chain fist and storm shield? What say your all? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Only the power weapon arm can be replaced with a Storm Shield, it's the Storm Bolter arm that can take the Chainfist or a power weapon via the FAQ. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Only the power weapon arm can be replaced with a Storm Shield, it's the Storm Bolter arm that can take the Chainfist or a power weapon via the FAQ. End of Line May want to check your wording there. Storm Shield and Chainfist are replacement options for the power weapon you start with. The Stormbolter can be replaced by a combi, assault cannon, Thunder Hammer, Wolf Claw, Power Axe or Frost Axe. As far as the OP, I would consider that bending rules. You have a set of options for each hand, try to stay with options as listed in codex and faq. There is no listed secondary option opened if you buy an option from the first set of options. You can try and clear it with your group. Your gaming buddies may not mind if your paying an extra 10 points to get the chainfist on the Stormbolter arm. Most of the options are listed by the way the kit is cast. The storm shield and Chainfist both come as left arms like the power sword. The axe got faq ed most likely because it comes as a right hand on the sprue like most of the Stormbolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverik_girl Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Only the power weapon arm can be replaced with a Storm Shield, it's the Storm Bolter arm that can take the Chainfist or a power weapon via the FAQ. End of Line May want to check your wording there. Storm Shield and Chainfist are replacement options for the power weapon you start with. The Stormbolter can be replaced by a combi, assault cannon, Thunder Hammer, Wolf Claw, Power Axe or Frost Axe. As far as the OP, I would consider that bending rules. You have a set of options for each hand, try to stay with options as listed in codex and faq. There is no listed secondary option opened if you buy an option from the first set of options. You can try and clear it with your group. Your gaming buddies may not mind if your paying an extra 10 points to get the chainfist on the Stormbolter arm. Most of the options are listed by the way the kit is cast. The storm shield and Chainfist both come as left arms like the power sword. The axe got faq ed most likely because it comes as a right hand on the sprue like most of the Stormbolters. If only it were because of that logic.. sadly it wasn't such the case with the previous edition with the kit being still the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgr_maddog Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Personally I consider it bending as well, but thought it in-line with RAW enough to discuss. Arjac's got a right handed storm shield, I want one too! I'd like to use some Lone Wolves as mini-dreadnoughts, filling the same role as a drop pod dread. He'd be a pretty points efficient mini-Blizdread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 As far as I can tell we are simply all just giving our own personal hunches as answers here? Correct me if I'm wrong but nothing in the actual rules says that you can't swap the same weapon twice. In fact, if you've ever equipped a rune priest with TDA, a force weapon and a relic gun, you've already done a similar kind of juggling (purchased a storm bolter, then swapped it out). I'm not saying it's within the spirit of the rules, but we should delineate between RAW and RAI. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Before we had one set of points for left hand and one set of points for the right hand, with complete freedom to choose whatever we wanted. The TDA Rune Priest is a weird one. You could trade your force weapon for a relic weapon. If you want to keep the force weapon and pair it with a relic then you would need to buy a Stormbolter to swap with the relic. Definitely seems to lead us down the path of the OP. I know I don't have a hard answer, just my opinion. That is the reason I also said to talk it over with your group. You can do whatever you want as long as your play group is ok with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I thought my wording was just fine, Vykryl. You have an arm with a power weapon and an arm with a storm bolter... This could easily become the next runic vs power armor and SotH 'discussion'. It will come down to 'it's not blatantly written like _______, so I can assume it can be anything' argument. Lord knows I LOVE that one... /sarcasm In the end, unless further FAQ's are written, we can each make our own mind up. Lets not clog the forums with RAW and RAI discussions on this subject. *2 cents* End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Sorry, meant check the chainfist option again. There was a number of us whining when the new book came out and storm shields and chainfists where both listed for the same hand only, made a number of our models illegal as Lone Wolves or TDAWG. They did give us the option to take that set up on Lords and Battle Leaders at least, but no free storm shields if we do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Sorry, meant check the chainfist option again. There was a number of us whining when the new book came out and storm shields and chainfists where both listed for the same hand only, made a number of our models illegal as Lone Wolves or TDAWG. They did give us the option to take that set up on Lords and Battle Leaders at least, but no free storm shields if we do. I lost both of my Lone Wolves when the new codex came out as well. I feel all of your pains!! The hammer shield is a decent replacement, but does not have quite the utility of the chainfist. I think the set up looked a lot cooler on a savage solider hell bent on death in some sort of fashion, then on a lord. But that's all preference for me. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I believe the wording is Clear and only an Axe can replace the Bolter. All other things are wishing and/or trying to find a crack in the Rules and since im sure 1000 of SW Players have asked GW about SS/CF combo on LW im pretty sure it would be in the FAQ if this combo would be still allowed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3897740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I questioned this in the FAQ thread, but bot few responses and though I'd bring it up again here. The rules state I can upgrade a TDA power weapon to a chain fist or storm shield (or the other options). The FAQ states I can upgrade the storm bolter to a power axe. Can I upgrade the now two power weapons to chain fist and storm shield? What say your all? I dont see why this is not valid. Can some one explain why this is rule bending or against the rules? Is the power axe free? or would you have to pay for the power axe then pay again for the chain fist? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3898188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 You would have to pay for a power axe first. The reason I feel it's rule bending is they took the SS/CF option away in the new codex. The faq added two options to the Stormbolter replacement options, there is now a question of using one of these options as a backdoor to get our previously popular SS/CF build. To me neither the codex entry or the faq says that if you buy an option from the Stormbolter hand options that you may then replace it with an option from the power weapon hand list. The lists seem intended as right hand and left hand options exclusively. Skeletoro brought up the point that you have to use this kind of shenanigans to get a relic weapon and force weapon on a Rune Priest. As Rune Priest Rhapsody said, it is a RAI RAW discussion and those often end up circular and heated with no end unless the next faq answers it. Until then it's more important what your play group says than what we say here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3898223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 You would have to pay for a power axe first. The reason I feel it's rule bending is they took the SS/CF option away in the new codex. The faq added two options to the Stormbolter replacement options, there is now a question of using one of these options as a backdoor to get our previously popular SS/CF build. To me neither the codex entry or the faq says that if you buy an option from the Stormbolter hand options that you may then replace it with an option from the power weapon hand list. The lists seem intended as right hand and left hand options exclusively. Skeletoro brought up the point that you have to use this kind of shenanigans to get a relic weapon and force weapon on a Rune Priest. As Rune Priest Rhapsody said, it is a RAI RAW discussion and those often end up circular and heated with no end unless the next faq answers it. Until then it's more important what your play group says than what we say here. Fair call I see what your saying. I guess for me if your willing to pay twice to validate your model then I would allow it. I mean its not doing anything overpowered, its just a chain fist after all. If you are willing to pay the points (I am not) then I would be fine with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3898227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Are there any instances where you can buy one weapon then buy and upgrade to another once you have purchased the first?? I don't know of one instance, I am seriously asking to further my knowledge. Thank you. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3898262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I think there was a few examples in the 5th edition Dex, but not sure about this Dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3898271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 This certainly is not 5th edition. I am fairly certain you cannot buy two special weapons to replace the same arm option. I says no where that I can find that you can buy 'X' weapon and then buy 'Z' weapon to replace 'X' on the same arm. It seems like again, this is a stretching the RAW/RAI boundaries. Remember, if it's too good to be true, it more than likely is false. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3899177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Its not to good to be true is it? I mean really. if your willing to pay twice... all for what a regular chainfist. It does not really change the game in anyway. Its not breaking anything. It does not make the model overpowered, or give it any unfair advantage. But you still have to pay twice for it. Personally I would have no issue if some one put that model on the table against me. I do not use lone wolves, so it is not something I would generally use, but also would not feel bad about fielding it If I decided to play one. Each to their own. As long as your opponent is fine with it than I say have at it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3899202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I know how this ends. Seen it before, and we'll see it again... End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300815-lone-wolftda-question/#findComment-3899338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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