Does Tzeentch have a Chosen One?

[Quixus]

Basically what the title says.

Khorne has Khârn, Nurgle has Typhus, Slaanesh has Lucius.

Somehow I don't think Ahriman is chosen by Tzeentch. Is there someone else?

 

I think it fits with Tzeentch's byzantine schemes not to put all eggs in one basket so to speak.

[Forté]

That would likely depend on which line of reality Tzeentch is currently looking at in any one moment.

[Lucio]

Tzeentch has/has not got/not got a Chosen Champion / Whipping Boy (delete as appropriate per the whim of Tzeentch)

[Dam13n]

Actually I'd say that Ahriman is probably quite high in Tzeentch's favour.  Based of the (old) fluff concerning the Rubric, if Tzeentch himself hadn't stepped in, Magnus would have destroyed Ahriman for his actions.  This was in no small part down to the fact that Tzeentch "had plans" for Ahriman beyond the Rubric.

 

Looking at Ahriman, his sorcerous talent speaks highly of him being in some way blessed by Tzeentch.  He is a schemer, duplicitous and manipulative, all of which would carry favour with Tzeentch.  Then you have his "mission" to enter the Black Library and absorb the hidden knowledge contained therein.  Such an act may well benefit Tzeentch immensely, as it would essentially free that knowledge from the confines of the Webway, where Tzeentch's eyes cannot see.

 

Tzeentch's patronage shouldn't be as obvious as that of the other gods.  In fact it would make more sense for there to be many individuals who are, to varying extents, chosen by Tzeentch.  But Ahriman is one of the more obvious choices, among the traitor legions, when it comes to being a Chosen of Tzeentch.

[Excessus]

Remember that having Tzeentch's favor doesn't have to be a volontary thing. Ahriman most likely has it, against his own will...

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No, I don't think Tzeentch has any chosen ones.  People who are touched by Tzeentch don't remain people for very long. . .

[the jeske]

having one and the same thing would go against nature of tzeench which is change. Blessing or carrying his favor is possible, having powerful demon princes having plans within plans generating more strife[which brings change] too, but one dude like valkia or block would be conter productive, the very idea that such an office could exist[even if it was not held by anyone] would mean stuff get stable and unchanging. that is like khorn not bloodletting or slanesh being satisifed with anything.

[A D-B]

Ahriman is literally the embodiment of this concept, he just doesn't want to be, and doesn't accept that it's true. (And with the knowledge that there are a bajillion facets of the God of Change.) But he's the benchmark, like Khârn, Typhus, and Lucius. Ahriman is the Tantalus / Sisyphus mythological trope of success always jusssssssst being around the next corner, only to be screwed over by a capricious god(s). It's not necessarily a case of direct interaction with Tzeentch, but we as the readers can see the path of fate, here:

 

Next time, Ahriman. You just need one more piece of forbidden lore. Really. Just one more. Of course the ends justify the means. Don't worry about what you have to do. Just one more, then you can undo all you've ever done wrong. Just one more world to burn. Just one more secret to tear from a man's mind. Almost there, Ahriman. I promise. 

 

Whereas he has to live through it, not hearing Tzeentch's (or the reader's) voice, but feeling all of it in the neverending burn of his confidence, ambition, and desperate attempts to finally reach his goals. 

 

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material. 

[Spaakl Daakli]

Tzeentch, of all the gods, never ever feels compelled to telegraph his punches.  Subtlety is his forte, and it is in keeping with his style for the decapitated to only know of their state when they try to nod their heads.

 

The Death of 1000 Cuts is far more his modus operandi, as is to simply keep absolutely everybody guessing.

 

(Even his own.)

[Forté]

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material.

I take it that's why you seem to like writing about them then :tu:

[MaliGn]

Of course Tzeentch has a chosen one, for each scheme and devious strategy there is a pawn, witting or unwitting, yet each chosen for that purpose. Arch-champions are more of a khorne thing, and that is only until a new champion overthrows the last. Slaanesh tortures his champions by never letting them die, plays to their vanity and pride. Only the grandfather really cares for his champions, protecting them and keeping them alive to spread his love. Tzeentxh is definitely the god of the 'chosen right now one'.

[Chaeron]

It's forte, he just doesn't know it yet.

[Dammeron]

The manner in which Tzeentch chooses his mortal representatives, champions, puppets etc is infinitely more complex than the manners in which most of the other chaos powers do. Unlike the other three, he doesn't seem to particularly care whether or not those who operate with regards to his agendas become willing or conscious worshipers or advocates of his ideologies; look at Magnus the Red as an example; even as a Daemon Primarch; the ultimate servant and representative of Tzeentch in both the material and immaterial plains, he doesn't seem to be a worshiper of Tzeentch, rather, he seems to have surrendered to the impossibility of defying what is fate and chance and potential personified.

 

Similarly, Ahriman consciously refutes the influence of The Weaver of Fates, seeking to conquer and consume Chaos as a whole through comprehension and occult knowledge. This doesn't particularly matter to Tzeentch himself, as Ahriman, Magnus and myriad others serve his agendas whether they believe themselves to do so or not. The motivating factor of Ahriman's contempt for the Power that condemned his Father, his legion and led him to disgrace is what makes him the ideal puppet; he is everything Tzeentch desires in a servant; powerful, self-willed, eternally hopeful; seeking some means of defying the fate that has been dealt him. Those are the individuals that draw Tzeentch's eye; not those that capitulate.

[Forté]

It's forte, he just doesn't know it yet.

But everyone truely belongs to Slaanesh. They just don't realise it until they go that step too far and realise that they still need to go further ;)

 

And only Tzeentch knows who his chosen ones are at any one moment.

[tylerw]

I feel like Sarpedon would be another good option, although he's almost exactly Ahriman-lite, with only his REALLY explicit rejection of Abraxes making him a little different, but still, Ahriman rejected Tz, so...

 

There are some solid characters in the fluff and such that might be really compelling as Tz's "chosen" (against their will, probably) as well - Eisenhorn for example, or Creed.

[Conn Eremon]

 

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material.

I take it that's why you seem to like writing about them then :tu:

I'm not sure I like the implication that the same can't be said of loyalists, which I would call patently false, but I'm sure that wasn't what AD-B meant.

[Excessus]

The loyalists have depth too, though villains will always have that "why did they turn evil when they could have stayed good" extra layer of depth. The same can of course be said for loyalists in the traitor legions, like garro or tarvitz, who are also intriguing characters.

[Forté]

 

 

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material.

I take it that's why you seem to like writing about them then :tu:

I'm not sure I like the implication that the same can't be said of loyalists, which I would call patently false, but I'm sure that wasn't what AD-B meant.

But the bad guys and those with questionable motives and morals are often more fun to write or act as (think Hannibal Lector in Silence of the Lambs or Darth Vader in Star Wars).

 

And yes, I'm sure it's not really what he ment but you have to admit that the "bad guy" scenes in films are often more memorable.

 

But, unfortunately, that is an entirely different topic.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material.

I take it that's why you seem to like writing about them then

I'm not sure I like the implication that the same can't be said of loyalists, which I would call patently false, but I'm sure that wasn't what AD-B meant.

I think its a difference in motivation, to be honest. Imperials are by and large driven by classical heroic motivators such as patriotism, hope, glory, or brotherhood. Some Chaos characters have more basic motivators -- Blood for the Blood God being the most obvious -- but but the most interesting ones provide very deep psychological wells to plumb. Ahriman certainly fits that category, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who ever saw the Tantalus connection with him. Not to ride the ADBfanboy train too hard, but Talos struck me as also fitting that paradigm; his twisted sense of loyalty in particular really helped to bring him to life in my mind.

[tylerw]

Chaos characters have such insane depth to them, and are thrown into such insane, mythological circumstances. Such awesome narrative material.

I take it that's why you seem to like writing about them then

I'm not sure I like the implication that the same can't be said of loyalists, which I would call patently false, but I'm sure that wasn't what AD-B meant.

But the bad guys and those with questionable motives and morals are often more fun to write or act as (think Hannibal Lector in Silence of the Lambs or Darth Vader in Star Wars).

And yes, I'm sure it's not really what he ment but you have to admit that the "bad guy" scenes in films are often more memorable.

But, unfortunately, that is an entirely different topic.

It is also interesting to take someone who is pure evil on the surface, such as, say, a daemon prince and his followers (Magnus/1k kiddies) and then deconstruct how he/they got there, revealing non-evil/relatable motivations and choices that led them to an evil place (evil as defined by the traditional good/evil, not saying that it's actually the case in a grimdark future).

[Forté]

Back on topic please.

[Quixus]

Couldn't nearly any major character in 40K be connected to Tantalus/Sysiphus? Major victory cannot ever be achieved because the setting is not supposed to have a victory for Chaos or the Emperor.

[Noctem Cultor]

I imagine that anyone could at anytime be the chosen of Tzeentch. If Khârn is looking like he may kill a Commissar whose information is all that is stopping a chain of events that follows his great plan then I don't see why he wouldn't aid the chosen of his enemy for the time it suits him.

 

We mere mortals couldn't understand the reasons behind the gift of being Tzeentch's chosen as they are likely to be many and ever changing.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I imagine that anyone could at anytime be the chosen of Tzeentch. If Khârn is looking like he may kill a Commissar whose information is all that is stopping a chain of events that follows his great plan then I don't see why he wouldn't aid the chosen of his enemy for the time it suits him.

 

We mere mortals couldn't understand the reasons behind the gift of being Tzeentch's chosen as they are likely to be many and ever changing.

And occasionally at cross-purposes with themselves.

[Carrack]

I imagine that anyone could at anytime be the chosen of Tzeentch. If Khârn is looking like he may kill a Commissar whose information is all that is stopping a chain of events that follows his great plan then I don't see why he wouldn't aid the chosen of his enemy for the time it suits him.

 

We mere mortals couldn't understand the reasons behind the gift of being Tzeentch's chosen as they are likely to be many and ever changing.

All the gods use mortals at various times, to me, that doesn't make them the chosen, just a pawn. I view the chosen more as the queen piece, to continue with chess analogies. The chosen is still being used to do the god's bidding, but is the most useful or important tool the god has to do it with. The god will still sacrifice his chosen when needed, but not as freely as his pawns.

 

The chosen of the other gods seem to have a much longer relationship with their god than a one time thing. The chosen of the other gods are also fairly influential warriors, as suits the purposes of their gods. I can not name a marked mortal more influential than Khârn, Typhus, Lucius, or for that matter Arhinan. With the exception of The Warmaster, who is chosen of all four of the major gods.