Renegades & Heretics Tactica

[Anon40k40k]

This is my attempt at a full tactica for the IA13 Renegades and Heretics list. It will be a living document, continuosuly updated with any community content.

 

I. General Army Rules and Principles

 

I.a - Competitveness

 

The R&H list, in my opinion, has the potential to be quite competitve. It has almost all the good things that Astra Militarum can bring, often at a reduced cost. The Allies matrix, while it will never be as robust as an Imperial list, can cover almost all the weaknesses in the main list. That being said, it's quite easy to go wrong with this list, so careful consideration should be given to every choice, and unnecessary upgrades should be avoided.

 

Strengths

Cheap bodies

Mass autocannons

Excellent non-core Troops

Devastating HS options

 

Weaknesses

Weak Elites and FA

Morale

Vulnerable Warlord

Must be Primary to get most benefit

 

I.b Uncertain Worth

The big one. On average, your squads will have Ld 7 or 8, which is fine. But the risk of a low Ld makes it suicide to let any unit you actually need to just use the rules as written. Thankfully, there are several ways to moderate it. Between allied Chaos Lords and Dark Apostles and two of the Renegade Devotions, you have ample access to Fearless for absolutely critical units. Chaos Sigils, Vox-casters and Fanatic can help somewhat, although Sigil and Vox take up a special slot and Fanatic is really expensive.

 

I.c Chaos Covenant

This really needs to looked at from two angles. First is the upgrade itself and how it buffs a unit. Slaanesh and Nurgle are pretty poor and should be avoided for anything other than fluff purposes. Khorne is a good buff for any CC unit. Big blobs of Mutants become a lot scarier with re-rolls to wound. Tzeentch is the real gem though. BS 2 snap shots allow for a lot of flexibility. A cheap autocannon squad becomes a viable anti-air threat. A squad behind an Aegis Line can get 2+ cover and fire at double effectiveness. Tzeentch is also without the question the only Covenant worth taking in an allied Renegades force. a Tzeentch Arch-demagogue in a squad of Reaper Autocannon Rapier batteries gives a huge buff to that squad.

 

Second is how the Covenant works on your Arch-demagogue, namely the unit unlocks. No Covenant unlocks Marauders, which is a decent unit, but doesn't really do anything you can't replicate with Infantry Squads or Disciples. Khorne unlocks Blood Slaughterers, another decent unit, but really nothing special and can just be taken as allies. Nurgle, now we're talking. Blight Drones are a pretty decent flier, something the army lacks otherwise, and Plague Zombies are among the best units in the entire book. Slaanesh unlocks Noise Marines and Sonic Dreadnoughts, both of which are good, but they can be easily be taken as allies. Tzeentch is the other winner. 3 Objective Secured squads of cheap Spawn is really, really good.

 

Covenants in summary. Khorne for assault squads. Tzeentch for heavy weapons heavy squads. None for most squads. Nurgle or Tzeentch on your HQ

 

I.d Warlord Traits

Wow, this table is a real roller coaster. Fanatical Convert can be simply game changing. If enough of your units die in a scenario like Emperor's Will or the Relic, you can win without even needing to play the mission. Iron Fisted Tyrant helps with your Ld issues, but hopefully that is built into the list. Still, it isn't terrible. Prophet of Doom is very good. Reserve manipulation can be game breaking against some opponents and can really help to get a key reserve (Fire Raptor?) in on turn 2. Artisan of Death is actually a pretty good ability. But if your Warlord is in CC, well, things are probably already lost for your army. Blasphemous Iconoclast is another terrible vs. building only thing that doesn't belong in 40k. Soul-scarred Terror is a bad a CC ability, so terrible. Overall, it's probably better than most of the army specific tables, but worse than Strategic. Stick with Strategic.

 

II. HQ

 

II.a Renegade Command Squad

We have to take one, so how best to use it. Even though you buy this as one unit, in reality, it's really two. The Arch-demaogue is an Independent Character, so he is free to go wherever he wants, and he probably should. The squad itself is 4 BS 4 guys, and you pay 10! points for every extra. That's insane. Never, ever buy extra guys for this squad. Take your 4 guys, but your heavy weapon of choice (Autocannon) stick them in cover or out of sight near an objective and hope they don't give up first blood.

 

The Arch-demagogue (AD) needs to be looked at separately since he is an IC. As I stated above the Nurgle and Tzeentch unlocks are by far the best so you should definitely use one of those. The other big choice for your AD is the Renegade Devotion. This is, usually, a buff for your AD or army, maybe an unlock, and affects your Lord of War choices. The unlocks are generally not great and Lords of War are sort of their own thing, so the main consideration is the buff. Primaris-rogue witch makes your AD ML 1/2 for 35/60, which is a fair cost. If he could access Divination, it would be an almost auto-include, but he's limited to Malefic, Biomancy, Pyromancy and Telepathy. Malefic is too risky on a possibly low Ld Warlord and Bio/Pyro are not really suited to a weak Psyker like the AD. Telepathy is always a good choice, but you need to balance range issues with keeping your Warlord safe. It also makes your Warlord Fearless which is extremely useful. Overall, it's the most costly Devotion, but has a lot of upside. Mutant Overlord is a nice cheap Devotion. It grants a relatively useless buff to your AD, likely making him better in assault, where he never wants to be. More importantly, it unlocks a unit of Spawn as troops. Renegade Spawn are very good. Even with the 15 point "tax" from Mutant Overlord, they're a good option. This Devotion also requires 2 Mutant Rabble, which can be decent if big or cheap if small, so no big deal. With this Devotion you can have 2 Rabble and 4 Spawn, or 2 Rabble, 2 Spawn, 1 Zombies and leave a Troops slot open for a platoon. This is a very competitive Devotion.

 

III. Troops

 

IV. Elites

 

V. Fast Attack

 

VI. Heavy Support

 

VII. Lords of War

 

VIII. Allies

 

IX. Fortifications

 

X. Misc.

[Forté]

Nice start.

[Castellan Cato]

I'm glad someone is doing this!!!! I'll be sure to chip in my two cents even if I don't get that many games in.

[Anon40k40k]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. Done with part I, working on HQ now

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Really glad to see this here. Great idea mate! I put a link to this tactica in my 'Renegades and Heretics Part 1' thread as I briefly mention tactics but don't go into it, instead suggesting people refer to this thread.

 

I had been thinking of doing this for some time myself but not had a chance to get past the Devotions.

While it is not a Devotion I would use myself, I was glad to see you spend a lot of time on the Primaris-Rogue Witch as the other reviews I have seen have dismissed this completely.

What I had thought of for this Devotion (especially for anyone with lots of rogue psykers etc) which might be a nice touch to this review is to take this Devotion at Lvl 2 with all Malefic Daemonology (3 powers total) alongside a Rogue Psyker Covern (Unlocked in the Elites section) purely to generate Warp Charge. That will give you a decent number of Warp Charges with which to cast spells and they are cast more reliably with the Death of Ksyr Lutien Legacy of Ruin on a Lord of War.

 

Obviously it is quite expensive, and can be done more effectively with allies but in an all R&H army if would at least give some effective summoning and gives anyone who stocked up on Psykers for whatever reason an opportunity to use them.

[Sheesh Mode]

I am watching this with interest. As a Chaos Space Marine player the Renegades and Heretics army is a shot out of left field, I normally run an aggressive mechanized army built around a death star and vindicators. Renegades and Heretics don't really do assault so I am looking for whatever information I can on how to run a ranged-centric force.

 

Keep up the good work.

[Anon40k40k]

A bit of a hold up with the holidays, but will continue this soon.

 

Regarding using your primaris-rogue to summon, right now, it's too risky. He's your HQ and his Ld might be poor. Can't give away Slay the Warlord that easily. If they FAQ to allow allied and non-Warlord AD to take Devotions (and I think they will), then it become a very competitive option. An allied Primaris-rogue with Tzeentch in a csm reaper battery would be awesome

[Sheesh Mode]

A question: What are your thoughts on the Bloody Handed Reaver and in conjunction with/on a separate note tanks for Renegades and Heretics?

[Anon40k40k]

I'll get to everything eventually :)

 

But quickly, I think Bloody Handed Reaver is the worst Devotion, by far.

 

Regarding tanks, well, there's a lot of them. 10 point discounted double heavy Flamer chimeras are good. 10 point discount hellhounds are good. 10 point discount Wyverns are amazing. 10 point discount for any blast Russ is good too. The problem with Russes is how full the HS slot is.

[minionboy]

Good work so far, but I'm not sure how you get 2 rabble and a unit of zombies, since the mutant overlord only gives you one unit of spawn.

[Anon40k40k]

Give him covenant of Nurgle silly :)

[Lagrath]

I have played with three heavy flamer renegade wyverns in my triple chaos unbound 1500 army at two tournaments in a row now, and they were amazing. They will wreck anything that isn't T7+ or a vehicle. I am buying another to run two squads of two at 1850.

[Anon40k40k]

I don't think 2x2 Wyverns is a good idea. R&H HS slots are simply precious. You can't waste one on something you don't really need. 3 Wyverns will shred one infantry squad per turn. I think that's enough. You need those other slots for things that can pop tanks (laser destroyers, Russes, manticores, colossi)

[Sheesh Mode]

So then what works for Renegades and Heretics is a field of cheap infantry backed by well trained heavy support units?

[Uprising]

So then what works for Renegades and Heretics is a field of cheap infantry backed by well trained heavy support units?

Basically an HQ(nurgle or Tzeentch) with mutant lord, troops 2x 50 mutant horde(maybe an armor upgrade for 6+ for cheap), 1x 3 spawn packs, then the heavy support is 5 Wyverns with the rest laser destroyer.  Finally if you pick nurgle get plague zombies and drones or tzeentch with have more chaos spawn.  The rest of the weakness is cover by allies(csm or CD) 

 

These are my first impression, and I need to play test and reread. 

[Anon40k40k]

That's certainly one way to do it. But smaller, faster squads like spawn and special weapon infantry squads in chimeras is very viable

[Emperors Immortals]

Great start so far. Tzeentch autocannon squads have been working well as cheap AA for me combined with rapiers. Though honestly I dont field much that a flyer really cares about, except the FireRapier who managed to obliterate my backfield AA nest.

 

 

So then what works for Renegades and Heretics is a field of cheap infantry backed by well trained heavy support units?

Basically an HQ(nurgle or Tzeentch) with mutant lord, troops 2x 50 mutant horde(maybe an armor upgrade for 6+ for cheap), 1x 3 spawn packs, then the heavy support is 5 Wyverns with the rest laser destroyer.  Finally if you pick nurgle get plague zombies and drones or tzeentch with have more chaos spawn.  The rest of the weakness is cover by allies(csm or CD) 

 

These are my first impression, and I need to play test and reread. 

 

 

This is the way ive had some success. A medusa, Wyvern battery and Rapier battery to back up as many troops as possible. Spawn and Zombies are easliy the best troops, the BloodyHandedReaver is an option as well.

 

That's certainly one way to do it. But smaller, faster squads like spawn and special weapon infantry squads in chimeras is very viable

 

I have tried this idea as both a stand alone army and elements of other lists and they just get cut down too quick.

 

My feeling is that this book is designed to be Big Guns, Big Units and fast spawn. Its also meant to be used with other chaos forces.

[Lagrath]

I don't think 2x2 Wyverns is a good idea. R&H HS slots are simply precious. You can't waste one on something you don't really need. 3 Wyverns will shred one infantry squad per turn. I think that's enough. You need those other slots for things that can pop tanks (laser destroyers, Russes, manticores, colossi)

 

As I wrote in my post, I was competing at the tournament using an unbound list, so the slots didn't matter. My bound 1850 list has two CADs (one CSM one R&H), and the R&H one has one Wyvern squad and two rapier laser destroyer squads in the 3 heavy slots.

[Anon40k40k]

Remember, rapiers are ordnance do can't snap shoot so can't target fliets

[Castellan Cato]

Remember, rapiers are ordnance do can't snap shoot so can't target fliets

 

 

This made me very sad when I noticed it.

 

The biggest problem with the Bloody Handed Reaver is that he scrapes value off of our biggest upside: cheap units.  Each upgrade you pay for thats not needed is a little bit of extra "tax."  Better shooting is never a bad thing, but it ups costs quick.  I havent found a list that I feel like he works in.

[Emperors Immortals]

Remember, rapiers are ordnance do can't snap shoot so can't target fliets

Absolutly, I was gutted when I found out too.

 

But cheap HeavyWeapons teams do benefit, you can add a Tzeentch Demi to a maxed Autocannon squad for cheap and good AA that works just as well on teh move.

 

Edit- a small thing I found too was that the HQ squad can be given a banner and a chemiera and the effect will be measured from teh outside of teh hull, increaseing banne rof hate range for example.

[Uprising]

That's certainly one way to do it. But smaller, faster squads like spawn and special weapon infantry squads in chimeras is very viable

Personally, I believe Loyalist guard does this better and cheaper in the form of veterans.  We excel in cheap horde, were losses do not matter because we just have so many troops.  Transport limit this and usually our troop choice have no room for them.  If you really want a transport filled with special try allies csm(rhino, 5 men, one melta and combi melta, or plagues marine with 2x melta and combi), which are decent for the cost.  Then again, I have never been a tank person. 

 

Remember, rapiers are ordnance do can't snap shoot so can't target fliets

I don't see this as a problem because CSM have excellent anti air in the form of fire raptors, hell talons, and somewhat the hel drake.  If you worry about air try an autocannon squad and the tzeentch demaugue manning a quad gun.  BS 2 not bad for the number of shot and with a fire raptor you should be golden. 

 

The lazers are too good not to take two squads of them. 

[minionboy]

Give him covenant of Nurgle silly

You suggested taking, "2 Rabble, 2 Spawn, 1 Zombies"

To take 2 units of Spawn you need Covenant of Tzeentch (MoM only gives you 1 unit of spawn), to take any Zombies, you need Covenant of Nurgle... If it was possible to take 2+ units of spawn as well as zombies, I'd be all over it!

[40kChrista]

Wouldn't you be able to take CoT for the Demi to take 2+ units of Spawn and then make him the Warlord giving him Master of Renegades to take 1 large unit of Zombies?

 

Never mind I see what you mean, CoN in Master of Renegades. 

[minionboy]

Remember, rapiers are ordnance do can't snap shoot so can't target fliets