Dantestar

[Jolemai]

I know, but Xenith, could you tell me what the two handed rule is please?

[SamaNagol]

Not enough wounds in the unit. Yes it has a smallish footprint so you could hide a lot of it, but it will still get shot off the board by a lot of armies.

 

That's why the 8 man Sang Guard squad helps. Extra 2+ saves to take mundane shots on.

[Quixus]

I know, but Xenith, could you tell me what the two handed rule is please?

This wenpon is particularly heavy and requires both hands to wield.

A model attacking with this weapon can never gain bonus Attacks for fighting with two weapons (see page 24).

Two-Handed

This weapon is particularly heavy and requires both hands to wield.

A model attacking with this weapon never receives +1 Attack for fighting with two Melee weapons.

Neither C:BA nor C:SM claim that the storm shield prevents wielding a weapon with both hands. I'm too lazy to check the other codices that have storm shields.

Yes, the number eight will please the Blood God Emperor.

[Xenith]

Storm Shields are also different in the BA dex as a captain can take one without exchanging a weapon. So relic blade, combi bolter, storm shield is fine

[Quixus]

Storm Shields are also different in the BA dex as a captain can take one without exchanging a weapon. So relic blade, combi bolter, storm shield is fine

C:SM allows that as well.

 

May take a storm shield

No replacement either.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Not enough wounds in the unit. Yes it has a smallish footprint so you could hide a lot of it, but it will still get shot off the board by a lot of armies.

 

That's why the 8 man Sang Guard squad helps. Extra 2+ saves to take mundane shots on.

 

Heh, well first off, 8 Sang Guard are almost a 100 pts more expensive than the Captain I suggested. Second, your 8 SG are barely more survivable to small arms and considerably less so against Ap2 weaponry. Third, if I wanted to spend the equivalent points for 8 SG, I could get my Captain AND 3 bikers w/ 2 gravguns, which would make my unit more survivable to both small arms and AP2 weapons.

[SamaNagol]

But the damage output is enough to deal with nigh on anything it gets into combat with.

[Deschenus Maximus]

But the damage output is enough to deal with nigh on anything it gets into combat with.

 

Doesn't help with getting shot off the board.

[toaae]

Third, if I wanted to spend the equivalent points for 8 SG, I could get my Captain AND 3 bikers w/ 2 gravguns, which would make my unit more survivable to both small arms...

 

 

A T5/2+ captain and three T5/3+ bikers is not more survivable to bolter fire than eight T4/2+ save Sanguinary Guard. Really, only mass/template AP2 will give an advantage to the bikers. But using SanGuard as a bodyguard for Dante is most definitely not inferior against small arms fire when compared to three bikers and a captain.

[Deschenus Maximus]

A T5/2+ captain and three T5/3+ bikers is not more survivable to bolter fire than eight T4/2+ save Sanguinary Guard. Really, only mass/template AP2 will give an advantage to the bikers. But using SanGuard as a bodyguard for Dante is most definitely not inferior against small arms fire when compared to three bikers and a captain.

 

 

You're right, they are going to tank a few less bolter shots than SG, but they WILL be much more survivable against plasma.

[SamaNagol]

That's generally why you take an Alpha striking bunch of melta pods and delete anything of the sort turn 1 as the biggest priority.

[Deschenus Maximus]

That's generally why you take an Alpha striking bunch of melta pods and delete anything of the sort turn 1 as the biggest priority.

 

That's fantasy. That or your opponents' lists are really poorly built.

[toaae]

 

A T5/2+ captain and three T5/3+ bikers is not more survivable to bolter fire than eight T4/2+ save Sanguinary Guard. Really, only mass/template AP2 will give an advantage to the bikers. But using SanGuard as a bodyguard for Dante is most definitely not inferior against small arms fire when compared to three bikers and a captain.

 

 

You're right, they are going to tank a few less bolter shots than SG, but they WILL be much more survivable against plasma.

 

 

Not exceptionally more. The captain has only three wounds, and once those are gone or you get hit at an angle the captain can't tank at, the bikers die as easily to plasma as the SanGuard, since S7 wounds T4 and T5 on the same number. Furthermore, if you can get the squads a 4+ cover save, the eight SanGuard are actually more survivable.

 

Against grav, the bikers are much, much better, due to a majority save of 3+ (that is how it works, right?).

[Karhedron]

 

That's generally why you take an Alpha striking bunch of melta pods and delete anything of the sort turn 1 as the biggest priority.

 

That's fantasy. That or your opponents' lists are really poorly built.

I don't see what is wrong with that suggestion. The main purpose of taking drop pods (particularly with multiple melta weapons) is to take out high priority targets early on. If your opponent has a tank toting AP2 blast/template weapons, I would describe that as a priority target.

 

Is it guaranteed? No, the best laid plans often fail to survive contact with the enemy. However, 4 melta weapons a better than 50% chance to delete any vehicle in the game in one volley so I would say it is a viable tactic.

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Not exceptionally more. The captain has only three wounds, and once those are gone or you get hit at an angle the captain can't tank at, the bikers die as easily to plasma as the SanGuard, since S7 wounds T4 and T5 on the same number. Furthermore, if you can get the squads a 4+ cover save, the eight SanGuard are actually more survivable.

 

Against grav, the bikers are much, much better, due to a majority save of 3+ (that is how it works, right?).

 

 

The Captain will tank 9 Ap2 wounds to the SG's 8. Then the bikers can Jink to tank another 6. That's 15 to 8, so nearly twice as many. That's a pretty damn significant difference.

 

As for the SG getting a 4+ cover, the best they'd realisticaly be able to get is a 5+ (unless you're playing in a citifight game). That would allow them to tank another 4 wounds. 15 is still more than 12.

 

 

I don't see what is wrong with that suggestion. The main purpose of taking drop pods (particularly with multiple melta weapons) is to take out high priority targets early on. If your opponent has a tank toting AP2 blast/template weapons, I would describe that as a priority target.

 

Is it guaranteed? No, the best laid plans often fail to survive contact with the enemy. However, 4 melta weapons a better than 50% chance to delete any vehicle in the game in one volley so I would say it is a viable tactic.

 

 

I said that's fantasy because aside from plasma russes, and maybe Vindis, the things that cause a lot of Ap 2 wounds aren't going to be stopped in their tracks by a couple meltas.