Cronhour Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I was looking at the vanguard & sternguard formation and thinking about how to use them. Personally I like to use combi weapons in pods to ambush something and wipe it out but with this force they have to start in the raven. I was thinking about the best way to use them coming out of an assault transport and figured on something a little different. They get free combi weapons or storm bolters, while combi grav and plas is nice it doesn't really sit right with me on a unit coming out of an assault transport. I could skies of fury them but then my deployment is limited or that of the raven plus I face scatter issues and then being bunched for templates. What I thought would be good is using them as a base for an assault insertion. Corbs or meph or a cheaper buff unit riding with them (corbs for the Aoe ws and I buff with FnP seems like the best bet) then full storm bolters, maybe with an adult based combi or two for mc hunting or massive units (riptides or orks) and a power weapon sarge. All assault weapons kicking out decent fire power before getting the two attack models stuck in. Not the best use of sternguard traditionally but a good use for them in this formation? Also it allows you to tie up a unit or two (multi charge) that then don't get to shoot at the deep strike vanguard vets with their free power weapons. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 For that formation, I was considering doing half combi-melta and half combi-grav or plasma. Combat squad inside the Raven, then jump out half shoots 1 target the other half another target. If I want to assault with the melta half I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Losing special ammo for storm bolters would suck in the long run. To use the assault ramp take two heavy flamers, a power fist and grav pistol on the sergeant and combi flamers for the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerKlaw Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 ^^ this But I would drop the heavy flamers. Having two types of template weapons in the same unit reduces the effectiveness of whichever you fire second. Plus you maximise on the freebies! I also play guard and use 30-40 man blobs. This unit would ruin them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 [snip]...Having two types of template weapons in the same unit reduces the effectiveness of whichever you fire second...[snip]...I also play guard and use 30-40 man blobs. This unit would ruin them! Not being picky here but this is a common misconception on here, and the second part of your quote contradicts the first; a unit with a single flamer would ruin a 30-40 man blob? No, but add a heavy flamer and it probably will. Basic positioning is the key. Simply put your burners at opposite flanks of your squad or far enough apart not to compete for wound allocation. Lots of people here have said things like "I would rather take a melta than a second flamer because they would diminish eachother". The irony of this makes me chuckle and shake my head; isn't the whole point of a frying squad to KILL and BURN an enemy unit? Not to "ooh don't hurt them too much"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Does the assault ramp allow you to fire the 2 heavy flamers upon exiting to Storm Raven?? I guess I am lost here. Don't you want Corbs and Mephy to get into close combat upon entering the board?? I really like the idea. I have always been a fan of the Sternguard, and the new models are so nice I've bought 4 boxes of them, and I predominantly play Wolves, who cannot even field them!! I look forward to gleaning some ideas from this thread!! End of Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Does the assault ramp allow you to fire the 2 heavy flamers upon exiting to Storm Raven?? I guess I am lost here. Don't you want Corbs and Mephy to get into close combat upon entering the board?? I really like the idea. I have always been a fan of the Sternguard, and the new models are so nice I've bought 4 boxes of them, and I predominantly play Wolves, who cannot even field them!! I look forward to gleaning some ideas from this thread!! End of Line heavy flamers are assault weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Does the assault ramp allow you to fire the 2 heavy flamers upon exiting to Storm Raven?? I guess I am lost here. Don't you want Corbs and Mephy to get into close combat upon entering the board?? I really like the idea. I have always been a fan of the Sternguard, and the new models are so nice I've bought 4 boxes of them, and I predominantly play Wolves, who cannot even field them!! I look forward to gleaning some ideas from this thread!! End of Line heavy flamers are assault weapons. D'oh!! I was too busy rushing headlong into a can of dog food. Thanks James End of Line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Losing special ammo for storm bolters would suck in the long run. To use the assault ramp take two heavy flamers, a power fist and grav pistol on the sergeant and combi flamers for the rest. Your looking at a turn 3 charge at best, which I've just realised means no multi charging shooty units to protect VVs but the way I see it your not getting much use out of them in the traditional role with such a late arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Losing special ammo for storm bolters would suck in the long run. To use the assault ramp take two heavy flamers, a power fist and grav pistol on the sergeant and combi flamers for the rest. Your looking at a turn 3 charge at best, which I've just realised means no multi charging shooty units to protect VVs but the way I see it your not getting much use out of them in the traditional role with such a late arrival. I never argued for putting them in a Storm Raven, I gave an ideal loadout for when you put them in a Storm Raven, and one of the BA formations require you to put them in a Storm Raven. There's no fixing the 3rd Turn charge within those constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I think stormbolters are a waste. If you want to assault, give them their full compliment of power weapons and fall back on special ammo for further turn utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 Losing special ammo for storm bolters would suck in the long run. To use the assault ramp take two heavy flamers, a power fist and grav pistol on the sergeant and combi flamers for the rest. Your looking at a turn 3 charge at best, which I've just realised means no multi charging shooty units to protect VVs but the way I see it your not getting much use out of them in the traditional role with such a late arrival. I never argued for putting them in a Storm Raven, I gave an ideal loadout for when you put them in a Storm Raven, and one of the BA formations require you to put them in a Storm Raven. There's no fixing the 3rd Turn charge within those constraints. they have to start on the stormraven as part of the formation rules. My point was more to do with the special ammunition loss part of the comment, they're all rapid fire so within the constraints of this formation pushing them towards assault not particularly useful, and pistols, heavy, melee weapons and specials aren't free only storm bolters and combis unfortunately so it tends to drive up the price of an already expensive formation. I think stormbolters are a waste. If you want to assault, give them their full compliment of power weapons and fall back on special ammo for further turn utility. that full compliment would be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I think stormbolters are a waste. If you want to assault, give them their full compliment of power weapons and fall back on special ammo for further turn utility. IIRC Sternguard Sergeants have to replace either the Bolt Pistol or the Boltgun for a Powersword, meaning they either lose +1A or Special Ammunition. Getting Power Weapons on them is a waste. What you want to get on them are Lightning Claws if you wish to go that route. Me, I'd just give them all a Combi-Flamer each and a Power Fist on the Sergeant, and hope their 2A stats and S5 charge will carry the day. EDIT: Ninja edit fail :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 I think stormbolters are a waste. If you want to assault, give them their full compliment of power weapons and fall back on special ammo for further turn utility. IIRC Sternguard Sergeants have to replace either the Bolt Pistol or the Boltgun for a Powersword, meaning they either lose +1A or Special Ammunition. Getting Power Weapons on them is a waste. What you want to get on them are Lightning Claws if you wish to go that route. Me, I'd just give them all a Combi-Flamer each and a Power Fist on the Sergeant, and hope their 2A stats and S5 charge will carry the day. only the sarge can take a power weapon anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I'm personally of the opinion that the Sternguard in the Stormraven, for this detachment, should only be five-men-strong, and equipped to deal with a specific type of target (likely Combi-Meltas). I think this may seem fairly illogical; after all, why give up 25 free points? 1) It's only 25 points. While some people may suffer from "every point counts!"-syndrome, in the big picture it's not a huge difference, especially since you are already getting something in the region of 375 free points anyway. 2) The five extra Sternguard to go to 10 men costs you points. It's not like they are free. 3) The more Sternguard you have in a Stormraven, the more proverbial eggs you have in the proverbial basket; eggs that *will* crack should the Stormraven fall out of the sky. 4) Sternguard aren't good in combat to begin with, and I'm not one to force them into a role that doesn't suit them. I'm not saying this is the only correct way to do it, nor am I suggesting that I assume everyone is also taking 10-men....but that's my $0.02 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 I'm personally of the opinion that the Sternguard in the Stormraven, for this detachment, should only be five-men-strong, and equipped to deal with a specific type of target (likely Combi-Meltas). I think this may seem fairly illogical; after all, why give up 25 free points? 1) It's only 25 points. While some people may suffer from "every point counts!"-syndrome, in the big picture it's not a huge difference, especially since you are already getting something in the region of 375 free points anyway. 2) The five extra Sternguard to go to 10 men costs you points. It's not like they are free. 3) The more Sternguard you have in a Stormraven, the more proverbial eggs you have in the proverbial basket; eggs that *will* crack should the Stormraven fall out of the sky. 4) Sternguard aren't good in combat to begin with, and I'm not one to force them into a role that doesn't suit them. I'm not saying this is the only correct way to do it, nor am I suggesting that I assume everyone is also taking 10-men....but that's my $0.02 :) You have to take 10 man units of vv and sternguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Not only that, but combis are actually 10 points, so you lose 50 points of discounts by only taking 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasteslikechicken Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I was thinking of this myself. If I was using regular poding Sternguard I would go with 8 with Mephy and Corbulo in a fast attack drop pod. Fire off the combi-weapons use Mephy With feel no pain to tank any counter fire. Then on turn 2 charge in (either splitting off Meph and Corbs) or use those nice 3 S5 WS5 attacks per surviving sterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 You have to take 10 man units of vv and sternguard. Ah, that does change things. I don't have the book with me yet :/ That seems like a massive investment though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I was thinking of this myself. If I was using regular poding Sternguard I would go with 8 with Mephy and Corbulo in a fast attack drop pod. Fire off the combi-weapons use Mephy With feel no pain to tank any counter fire. Then on turn 2 charge in (either splitting off Meph and Corbs) or use those nice 3 S5 WS5 attacks per surviving sterns. If you are podding, you may as well go for 2 heavy flamers and a mix of combi-grav/melta/plasma/flamer. Not only would it be fluffy and look awesome but it would have something to shoot at wherever you drop it on T1. Armor? Shoot Melta and Grav. 2+? Shoot Grav and Plasma. Infantry? Shoot Flamer and Heavy Flamer. Someone wants to charge you? 2D3 S5 and 2D3 S4 hits IN YOUR FACE. This is how I will model mine.. Though I'm going for 10 models. 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 combi-grav, 2 combi-melta, 2 combi-plasma, 2 Combi-Flamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share Posted December 25, 2014 i should of been clearer with the first post it was in reference to the archangels sanguine wing. 2 10 man units of vanguard vets, one 10 man unit of sternguard, one stormraven, VV get a free power weapon, sternguard a free combi or stormbolter but must start in the raven. Its not really about the best sternguard loadout in general or delivery system but the possability of using them in this formation as a supporting assault force, i suggested storm bolters as their assault 2 weapons as opposed to rapid fire or salvo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 i should of been clearer with the first post it was in reference to the archangels sanguine wing. 2 10 man units of vanguard vets, one 10 man unit of sternguard, one stormraven, VV get a free power weapon, sternguard a free combi or stormbolter but must start in the raven. Its not really about the best sternguard loadout in general or delivery system but the possability of using them in this formation as a supporting assault force, i suggested storm bolters as their assault 2 weapons as opposed to rapid fire or salvo. Yeah, but with SBs they basically become expensive A2 Marines. The whole point of Sternguard is Special Ammo. Combimelta all of them, either melta and charge or single fire appropriate special ammo (no rapid fire) and charge. Or hold off with fire, supporting the Vanguard Squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This may sound awful dumb but can you single fire rapid fire weapons and charge? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This may sound awful dumb but can you single fire rapid fire weapons and charge? :/ No you can only do that in the horus heresy game using the iron warriors legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 This may sound awful dumb but can you single fire rapid fire weapons and charge? :/ No you can only do that in the horus heresy game using the iron warriors legion. For a moment I thought I was really handicapping myself all this while.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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