AM as allies to SW or vice versa

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I am looking to field an AM detachment alongside my SW to give me more field presence and shooting. I am thinking that AM would be the primary detachment supported by a CoF detachment that would serve as the dedicated assault force. So, given the assault element listed below, I ask you more experienced Guard commanders how would you support such a force?

 

 

CoF Detachment

Harald Deathwolf
Iron Priest on Thunderwolf Mount with 2 Cyberwolves
Iron Priest on Thunderwolf Mount with 2 Cyberwolves
4 Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 x Storm Shields
4 Thunderwolf Cavalry with 2 x Storm Shields

 

This force would be the hammer to smash enemy units in the mouth with. There are more killy options than Harald but he buffs the TWC so that benefit outweighs his combat abilities. I was thinking of maybe two infantry platoons with a heavy weapon squad each backed up by a couple of wyverns. Beyond that, I am unsure.

 

Thanks for taking a look!

[WarriorFish]

All Imperial forces ally well together, depending on what you need. Generally speaking the more different they are they more benefits you can glean which is why Guard make for such great allies - opens up lots of fluff opportunity too :)

 

As your SW are the hammer - a very small and elite one at that - then you could do with the Guard as the anvil. Numbers and fire power is what Guard can do well so that's a good idea, a couple of platoons will give you a lot of troopers to hold the line and options for special and heavy weapons. Wyverns are cheap and effective, along with your platoons they could handle most anti-personnel requirements.

 

Some long range AT would be good, you could put them in the platoons but they'd be better concentrating on enemy infantry mostly. Veterans could be a way to get some AT in if you mechanise them to support your Wolves. What about more vehicles, for example Russ tanks (appropriate!) or maybe Sentinels to mount some bigger guns on? I'd keep away from large and dangerous blasts unless you're willing to risk/work with potential friendly fire.

 

I am not particularly familiar with the current SW guise, could you give a small run down on special abilities etc? Do you have any Guard models yet?

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Thanks for the feedback. I do not own a ton of AM yet but I am looking at them as my next army so it makes sense to use them as an allied force. I currently own a few infantry, a punisher and an executioner.

 

Here is a run down of what my proposed SW force brings to the table:

Harald ignores flame based weapons and all pyromancy powers, his warlord trait gives stubborn to all friendly beasts and cavalry as well as a 12" Furious Charge bubble to beasts and cavalry on the turn that they charge.Kingsguard gives TWC WS5. My pack leaders get PE in challenges which they have to issue/accept. The IPs are there to tank small arms fire and LO,S ID wounds to the cyberwolves. 

[WarriorFish]

All mighty Guard armies start somewhere The SW bits look hard hitting, so your Guard should be focused on helping them reach the enemy lines and holding objectives. A punisher is good, better as a tank commander though but as a trooper army would benefit from a Company Command Squad (CCS) that might start to look pricey.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

My initial thoughts are a CCS, 2 x Infantry Platoons with attached Heavy Weapons squad and two Wyverns. I figure autocannons for the heavy weapons and flamers for the squads to deter assaults or flame the opposition off of an objective. I'm unsure how to equip the CCS and PCS though.

 

Here is my first crack at a supporting force:

 

Allied Detachment:
CCS - MoO
PCS - 4 flamers, 2 x Squads w/ flamers
Heavy Weapons Squad - 3 x AC
PCS - 2 flamers, 2 x Squads w/ flamers
Heavy Weapons Squad - 3 x AC
3 x Scout Sentinels w/LC
2 x Wyverns

 

I feel that this gives me a solid base of fire element that can kill troops and light transports so that the SW element can chew up the squishy bits inside.

[WarriorFish]

Looks like a good core, lascannons on Scout Sentinels are a bit expensive for me, I like autocannons on them but if you outflank with them you'd have a good chance to cause some damage with flanking and rear shots. PCSs have BS3 and can take four special weapons so they're great for flamers, I usually only bother with two weapons though as they're a small squad so can't take much flak.

 

For the CCS they have BS4 so if you're planning on getting them close to the action then maybe a plasma or melta or two? A medikit also helps keep them going if you can afford it :) Grenade launchers are also a good versatile weapon for BS3 units, so they might be worth considering too.

[hendrik]

My initial thoughts are a CCS, 2 x Infantry Platoons with attached Heavy Weapons squad and two Wyverns. I figure autocannons for the heavy weapons and flamers for the squads to deter assaults or flame the opposition off of an objective. I'm unsure how to equip the CCS and PCS though.

 

Here is my first crack at a supporting force:

 

Allied Detachment:

CCS - MoO

PCS - 4 flamers, 2 x Squads w/ flamers

Heavy Weapons Squad - 3 x AC

PCS - 2 flamers, 2 x Squads w/ flamers

Heavy Weapons Squad - 3 x AC

3 x Scout Sentinels w/LC

2 x Wyverns

 

I feel that this gives me a solid base of fire element that can kill troops and light transports so that the SW element can chew up the squishy bits inside.

As a long time space wolf player i can give you some advice.

1) since this list fullfills all force org charts just make them a detachment on their own, instead of only allies.

2)Drop the MoO, yest it sounds cool, but in reallity it will just end up scattering on your own wolves, whcih is something you can not afford due to low model count. secondly, drop, the heavy weapon squads. my experience has learned me that these usually do not live long enough to make up their points. In doing so you have freed up 270 points so far. this gives you acces to 2 additional wyvern squadrons consisting of 2 wyverns each. you now still have 10 points to spare.

My next suggestion would be to drop the flamers since A) your TWC will stop any units from reaching your lines. B) you have 6 wyverns on the field, these bad boys shell out a total of 24 smmall blasts with rerol to hit and shred! nothing yould be able to reach your lines.(the reroll to scatter also allows your wyverns to kill off units that come to threaten your TWC caught in combat due to their accurate fire). Instead invest in some long range firepower to drop off lone survivors of your wyvern barrage.

3) buy these units as following:1x company command squad, 2x infantry squad, 1x heavy weapon squad (by incorporating these into your normal infantry squad you now have 6 spare dudes that you can convert into a platoon command squad with bits from the company command box!), 2 x wyvern, 2 x sentinel.(make sure you magnetise the wyverns and the sentinels, it is easy enough to do but will allow you so much more flexibility!

these units now can be used as an allied detachment. to make a full on detachment you'll need to get 2 more infantry squads and another company command box, or use some vetersn(cheaper option money wise if that's an issue)

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll do some tinkering and post what I come up with. Six Wyverns seems a little overkill though.

[xxoblivionxx33]

I'm going the same as the spoiler COF list at the top, but with pask and his punisher crew as the allies, pask puts out an amazing amount of shots with rending, and 3 punishers is 60 str 5 ap 4 shots a turn and then the 9 heavy bolters total on top of that, 

[wulfgar hammerfist]

That is an interesting option for sure. The amount of firepower seems really good. What else are you bring along beside Pask and Pals? I think three LR hulls would be too unwieldy. If I were to do something like this, I would field two LR hulls and then some infantry to bubble wrap supported by 2 x 2 Wyverns.

[hendrik]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll do some tinkering and post what I come up with. Six Wyverns seems a little overkill though.

this is the imperial guard! there is no such thing as overkill! especially not in a list with such low model count as yours. at best your list can attack 5 different targets, provided you can get there in time and maybe you'll get a multicharge in. 'unfortunatly' no other unit in our codex can match the wyvern in its point effectiveness, hence spamming it is a great idea.

while 60 punisher shots sound tasty they lack the range that your list needs(only 24"). If you still like the idea of it i would recommend some vultures with twin linked punisher cannons. at 155 pts they are cheaper than the punisher, they have vector dancer and strafing run, turning them in the most deadly anti infantry flyer we have

[Frater Cornelius]

How do you use Platoons anyway. You have nothing to make them tougher or more killy. It is just plenty of dudes. When faced with MCs or Mech, once only needs to kill the TWC to have all threats removed.

Been a while since I have been with the Guard. Mind enlightening me on how a Platoon and it's individual elementens interact with an elite SW and helps them get by (except swarming the board and holding the objectives with piles of corpses).

[wulfgar hammerfist]

That is what I am trying to figure out. How well does the Guard compliment SW TWC? One of the issues with my current SW list is a lack of field presence which I thought that the Guard could help with.

 

@ hendrik: maybe overkill was the wrong choice of words. It takes a long time to resolve their shooting so it could slow the pace of the game. I'm not arguing that they aren't effective. I've seen them do horrible things to many armies in other games.

 

@ Immersturm: maybe mounted vets are a better choice but I think one platoon is necessary to bubble wrap the Wyverns or tanks that will be sitting in the backfield.

[Frater Cornelius]

That is what I am trying to figure out. How well does the Guard compliment SW TWC? One of the issues with my current SW list is a lack of field presence which I thought that the Guard could help with.

 

@ hendrik: maybe overkill was the wrong choice of words. It takes a long time to resolve their shooting so it could slow the pace of the game. I'm not arguing that they aren't effective. I've seen them do horrible things to many armies in other games.

 

@ Immersturm: maybe mounted vets are a better choice but I think one platoon is necessary to bubble wrap the Wyverns or tanks that will be sitting in the backfield.

 

While field presence is a thing, you can easily work around it with pods and backfield units like Long Fangs. A Pods landing on an objective is a massive cock block to almost any dedicated capping unit.

 

What Wolves lack is serious long ranged firepower. We are mainly mid-ranged with melee elements. Anything beyond " is getting a bit.. meh.