help with Combat Patrol tourney

[fabambina]

hello all, happy holidays!

 

i am attending a tournament in a few weeks, local, and organized by a group that my group plays with monthly. 

 

we always play 1500+, and the only experience i have with smaller armies is back in 4th edition.

 

so i would like help with strategy and lists.

 

i have several ideas about how to form my IG 400 group.

 

1) two units of veterans with three primaris psykers lvl 2 each - i think this might be a pretty heavy psyker list compared to the others. i don't know how much any other army can bring to 400 pts. one unit of veterans with grenade launcher and melta, one with two flamers. that way i have anti-vehicle and anti-infantry. both grenadiers.

 

2) two units of veterans with priests and one psyker - both veterans grenadiers, one anti-infantry unit has a heavy bolter team, flamer, and grenade launcher. the other is in a chimera, demolitions, and a melta for anti-vehicle or MC. both have priests. and a level 2 psyker for powers.

 

3) blob of 35 conscripts with commisar, PCS in chimera, one squad of anti-inf with heavy bolter, one squad anti-tank/MC with melta and krak - i might be mistaken, but the sheer number of models on the table make me lean towards this one. i don't know if anyone will have the firepower to bring it down.

 

now, all of my ideas here are based on zero combat patrol experience. so, i don't know what anyone else can bring. 

 

can you guys/gals give me any pointers or hints?

 

 

[WarriorFish]

It's been a while since I've played combat patrol but I do have recent experience with kill team. The thing with smaller point games is that not only to they make lists quite restrictive but they also tend to exaggerate the nature of an army/codex. With fewer points to play with your weaknesses are harder to compensate for so you must play to your strengths instead - for Guard this is always numbers and fire power.

 

So you're on the right track with your proposed lists, going heavy on Vets or troopers. The number of units you can put on the table with option 3 would be great as most opponents wouldn't be able to match that. There's also targeting to take into account; fewer units means it's easier for your opponent to concentrate fire. I'd tweak it for more troopers over conscripts though as I think the weapon upgrades could be more useful, that or have the conscripts minimum sized? That ought to be more than enough to keep mean enemy units busy.

 

If you were to go with a Vet force, then you must mechanise them so they'd be able to close on the enemy plus Chimeras would be a solid choice for the additional weaponry :)

[fabambina]

 I'd tweak it for more troopers over conscripts though as I think the weapon upgrades could be more useful, that or have the conscripts minimum sized? That ought to be more than enough to keep mean enemy units busy.

i did some messing around, and i added one more group of infantry, took out the conscripts completely, and added a psyker lvl 2 instead. the third infantry group is meant to be a sacrificial lamb, aka speed bump. but the addition of the psyker bumps up the power of my other units. it could buff either of the infantry squads, depending on what my opponent brings, infantry or armor. but i lost the commisar and priests.

 

also, what about taking four infantry squads and blobbing them into one with a separate PCS in a chimera?

[WarriorFish]

What sort of upgrades are you thinking for the squads?

 

I don't think blobbing is a good idea, as it will sacrifice the advantage having multiple units provides and let more elite foes use their strengths. It's nice to have the option of course, but I doubt you'd come across a game that it would benefit you.

[fabambina]

for the first two squads, this is the same whether veterans or regular infantry:

 

one anti-infantry, with flamer and heavy bolter

 

one anti-armor/MC with krak, melta, and demolitions (v)

 

if there is a third reg infantry, they go just as basic and speed bump. this was the function of the conscripts as well.

 

with PCS giving orders, target bait, or exploiting situations as they arise

[Bonzi]

As guard you have three major advantages at low point levels. 

 

#1.  Long range fire.

#2.  Gunboat transports and cheap mech.

#3.  Massed numbers.

 

#1 is an advantage you want to play to no matter what as most armies need HS slots to bring the long range dakka but at 400pts that will be tight for them.  You main choice is between #2 and #3 as you won't be able to do both.  My preference is to focus on #1 and #2.

 

Something like:

 

Vets: x2 plasma

-Chimera: multilaser/hull heavy bolter

 

Vets: x2 melta, heavy flamer

-Chimera: multilaser/hull heavy bolter

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

With this list you dominate AV12 vehicles and your ranged firepower will be a devastating advantage at 36"+.  The enemy will have to come to you and they will have to do it through heavy firepower and once they get there you answer them with plasma, meltas, flamers, and counter-charging Sentinels to tarpit.  In small points games Chimeras shine as light tanks with two models firing from the hatch, the rest of the squad using lasgun arrays, and the Chimeras laying down heavy firepower.

 

At low point games always remember small things like throwing a frag grenade or using lasgun arrays.  Small details provide big results in low point games.

[fabambina]

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

 

 

 

if i'm not mistaken, combat patrol precludes vehicles with armour over 11 unless they are dedicated transports or troops. then the limit is 12. 

 

i like your point about the firepower, and i like the way you set up the vet teams.

 

how do i replace the sentinels, in your opinion?

[WarriorFish]

Good post Bonzi, I knew you'd turn up to share some wisdom ;) Unless the rules have changed it is no total armour values above 33 by adding front, side and rear so Chimeras and Armoured Sentinels as 12+10+10 = 32 :)

[Kilofix]

Haven't played Combat Patrol. Can you take Heavys?

[Bonzi]

 

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

 

 

 

if i'm not mistaken, combat patrol precludes vehicles with armour over 11 unless they are dedicated transports or troops. then the limit is 12. 

 

i like your point about the firepower, and i like the way you set up the vet teams.

 

how do i replace the sentinels, in your opinion?

 

 

You are right.  I was treating armor restrictions the same as Kill Teams.  You could flip to Scout Sentinels and use the extra points to give one of the vet squads an autocannon.

 

Or:

 

PCS: x2 plasma, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy flamer/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Now that's a unit that can lay down some firepower at range and you have the PCS to issue some orders if you need it.  If the AV max is 12 for transports and 11 for others you don't really need melta guns so some plasma + torrent fire should carry the day.   Too bad the front av of a Wyvern is too high.  That would be nasty.

 

You will need to watch out for DE Raiders and SM Razorbacks as those will be go to tanks for combat patrol and they will have better anti-tank weapons such as assault cannons or tl-lascannons or lances.  Those will wreck your day.  Fortunately you can glance those guys to death with weight of fire.

[WarriorFish]

Who changes the combat patrol rules and why wasn't I informed? That rule seems to be unfairly punishing the Guard, unless it's another cunning ploy to try and ship Taurox models...

[fabambina]

Unless the rules have changed it is no total armour values above 33 by adding front, side and rear

the organizers have limited the restrictions to simply no side more than 11 save for dedicated transports. they have an idea of game balance they are trying to achieve.

i wouldn't accuse them of unfairly crippling specific armies, except one of them said they were going to specifically nerf hordes, via scenario specifics, due to a friend's punishing gretchin mob. so...

maybe their changes are to bring balance to the game in response to situations they have found themselves in. the changes are unfair if broadly applied but possibly they will help balance games involving them.

i.e. they nerfed the stuff that was stomping them to make it a more balanced, fun game.

if so, that's ok. stomping people repeatedly is no fun. i'm a FAAC, not a WAAC.

but, yea, it seems like they did

[fabambina]

 

 

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

 

 

 

if i'm not mistaken, combat patrol precludes vehicles with armour over 11 unless they are dedicated transports or troops. then the limit is 12. 

 

i like your point about the firepower, and i like the way you set up the vet teams.

 

how do i replace the sentinels, in your opinion?

 

 

You are right.  I was treating armor restrictions the same as Kill Teams.  You could flip to Scout Sentinels and use the extra points to give one of the vet squads an autocannon.

 

Or:

 

PCS: x2 plasma, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy flamer/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Now that's a unit that can lay down some firepower at range and you have the PCS to issue some orders if you need it.  If the AV max is 12 for transports and 11 for others you don't really need melta guns so some plasma + torrent fire should carry the day.   Too bad the front av of a Wyvern is too high.  That would be nasty.

 

You will need to watch out for DE Raiders and SM Razorbacks as those will be go to tanks for combat patrol and they will have better anti-tank weapons such as assault cannons or tl-lascannons or lances.  Those will wreck your day.  Fortunately you can glance those guys to death with weight of fire.

 

 

how am i gonna use this list? disembark as fast as possible? roll to objectives THEN disembark? i can fire the autocannon out of the fire points, but i have to be stationary for that, correct? to avoid SS.

 

and one of the organizers DEFINITELY is DE.

 

 

 

 

 

So what I've moved to is:

PCS with lascannon and flamer

4x Infantry squad with autocannon and meltagun

3x Mortar squad

Comments?

[WarriorFish]

I don't like limitations like that, too much chance of bias so I think it's always best to stick with the established rules. I note that the new rules don't seem to have any effect on DE but surely that's a coincidence...

 

Your platoon list looks quite good (assuming it doesn't fall foul of the anti-gretchin schemes...) but you will struggle a bit with mobility. Maybe better to build squads to either hold the line or advance? Perhaps ditching the HWS to fund another squad might be worth it?

[fabambina]

I don't like limitations like that, too much chance of bias so I think it's always best to stick with the established rules. I note that the new rules don't seem to have any effect on DE but surely that's a coincidence...

 

Your platoon list looks quite good (assuming it doesn't fall foul of the anti-gretchin schemes...) but you will struggle a bit with mobility. Maybe better to build squads to either hold the line or advance? Perhaps ditching the HWS to fund another squad might be worth it?

Yes, my whole club noticed the new rules and who they seemed to nerf and who they didn't. But it's all in good fun, I'm more FAAC, so I just wanna have fun. I don't mind a handicap. Only one member of my club is WAAC, and no one likes to play him, but he makes us all better. He improves our strategy and builds.

 

One thing impossible to plan for is the scenarios. Especially since I think they might be tailored to nerf specific armies.

 

I also worry about the lack of mobility in this list. I was counting on my firepower to force my opponent into a death match. My idea is to force them to fight by continuously hammering them. Last time I played the DE tourney organizer guy I did exactly that. I realized in turn 1 that his mobile DE army would dominate mine in a battle of movement, so I just hung back and hammered him every time he tried for the relic. Eventually he tried to switch tactics to death match but it was too late.

 

But...

 

If I were to switch out the HWS for more mobility, it would prolly net me one Chimera. I could stick one of the IPs in that, I suppose.

 

Any ideas?

[MrSocks]

In old old combat patrol I seem to remember there was a limit to 1 fast attack or 1 heavy support (I haven't played guard since 5th either so correct me if I'm mistaken) so would you have to squadron the sentinels.

[fabambina]

There is that limit, but there is also one swing unit you may choose which may be any type save only 1 HQ allowed.

[Bonzi]

 

 

 

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

Armored Sentinel: autocannon

 

 

 

 

if i'm not mistaken, combat patrol precludes vehicles with armour over 11 unless they are dedicated transports or troops. then the limit is 12. 

 

i like your point about the firepower, and i like the way you set up the vet teams.

 

how do i replace the sentinels, in your opinion?

 

 

You are right.  I was treating armor restrictions the same as Kill Teams.  You could flip to Scout Sentinels and use the extra points to give one of the vet squads an autocannon.

 

Or:

 

PCS: x2 plasma, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy flamer/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Infantry Squad: grenade, autocannon

-Chimera: heavy bolter/multilaser

 

Now that's a unit that can lay down some firepower at range and you have the PCS to issue some orders if you need it.  If the AV max is 12 for transports and 11 for others you don't really need melta guns so some plasma + torrent fire should carry the day.   Too bad the front av of a Wyvern is too high.  That would be nasty.

 

You will need to watch out for DE Raiders and SM Razorbacks as those will be go to tanks for combat patrol and they will have better anti-tank weapons such as assault cannons or tl-lascannons or lances.  Those will wreck your day.  Fortunately you can glance those guys to death with weight of fire.

 

 

how am i gonna use this list? disembark as fast as possible? roll to objectives THEN disembark? i can fire the autocannon out of the fire points, but i have to be stationary for that, correct? to avoid SS.

 

and one of the organizers DEFINITELY is DE.

 

 

 

 

 

So what I've moved to is:

PCS with lascannon and flamer

4x Infantry squad with autocannon and meltagun

3x Mortar squad

Comments?

 

 

The mech list is easy to use.  You have range of the whole board so you deploy back as far as possible and sit in cover hammering the enemy.  On turn three or four you begin advancing on objectives once you've established fire superiority.   Remember that the Chimeras gain objective secured as well so you can choose to dismount a squad or two to hold back field objectives while you advance with your armor and PCS.  What you do is entirely dependent on who you face.  Some opponents you will dismount/blob squad for (like Raider/Lasback spam).  Yes the enemy may claim a Chimera on turn one, but your return fire will decimate any light vehicle in your next turn.  Other opponents will make you want to stay meched up and mobile.  If you have to move and snap shoot the autocannon it isn't the end of the world as they only cost ten points.

 

Your foot horde is fine but your weapons are a touch confused.  Melta and autocannon means one weapon will be useless in anything but the most idea circumstance.  With the armor limitations of the combat patrol I wouldn't bother with them as a double tapping plasma gun will give you more mileage at better range.  Same story with lascannon/flamer.  It's a weapon mismatch.  Keep the PCS/lascannon to sit back with your main gun line, kit two squads with plasma/autocannon, one with a flamer/krak grenades, and one with the grenade launcher/autocannon.  This gives you flexibility and weapons of matching intent.

[fabambina]

Keep the PCS/lascannon to sit back with your main gun line, kit two squads with plasma/autocannon, one with a flamer/krak grenades, and one with the grenade launcher/autocannon.  This gives you flexibility and weapons of matching intent.

 

this sounds like a very good idea. 

 

which special weapons/heavy weapons or PCS?

 

the main gun line would consist of which squads?

 

which squads would be the ones to advance?