A boost for all squads (minus Deathwing)

[FarFromSam]

Alright y'all, bear with me. This may even be old news. ANYWAY, Ever wish your Ravenwing sergeant had a bolter to swap out in order to get a plus one attack when purchasing a power weapon? Ever find your tactical squad locked in combat and your sgt has a bolter and no CCW? Well there may be a way to (nearly) always be prepared, check it.

 

Our previous codex saw our RAS's always upgrading the sgt with a powerfist since they lacked two weapons to trade for the +1 attack bonus from a power weapon. Today I was re-re-re-re-reading the dex and followed this rabbit hole. Again, bear with me angels.

 

 

In the DA codex it says "the sergeant may take items from the melee section." The melee section says "a model can replace one weapon with one of the following:" the sergeant's profile wargear has "power armour, Boltgun, bolt pistol, frag grenades, krak grenades." In the back of the codex, under "ranged weapons" it has a profile for frag grenades. ... SO, to get to the point, I surmise that we may replace the sergeant's frag grenades (a weapon) with a chain sword in order to get the plus one attack for two close combat weapons.

 

The crux of the plan rests on frag grenades being considered weapons. The grenade having an entry in a section called "ranged weapons" validates that. I lack a BRB at the moment, does it have a line saying grenades can never be swapped etc.?

 

This transfers over to infantry squads as well since your sergeants will be able to keep their bolter if you kit them for close combat.

 

Sadly no such flexibility is afforded to the Deathwing.

 

So I bring this news to you in hopes that it is in fact news to you, and the legion will benefit as a community, and as a way to make sure I'm not cheating.

 

This is my Christmas present to the legion, Thoughts?

 

TL:DR - by swapping frags out for a chainsword, sgts become more flexible and always gain +1 A.

 

Thanks, glory to the legion, the pride of the Lion. -far from Sam

 

Typed on a phone, sorry for poor composition/grammar/spelling

[FarFromSam]

Additionally, this would work for ranged weapons. The exciting application for this would be gunslinger with plasma pistol and bolt pistol before charging in. You'd get to keep your bolter, and could even swap krak nades for a PW)

[Solrac]

Frag & Krak Grenades are technically equipment/wargear not weapons. They are listed in the back as a ranged weapon because you can throw them at the profile listed (with unique restrictions) but in other situations they can't always be used.

 

It's a RAW vs RAI type deal and I am certain it wasn't intended to work as you're describing.

[FarFromSam]

I would agree with you, if it weren't for the profile in the back of the dex. Frag grenades are already universally described in the BRB. Additionally, they are listed under wargear (wear other weapons are placed) rather than special rules... granted that wouldn't make much sense, but it would clarify it.

 

I argue it is a weapon with additional effects, which is not uncommon when it comes to weapons.

[Lucien Eilam]

You can argue it if you like, but it's been done to death already. Not even the staunchest RAW fanatics will claim it's what GW intended, even if they think the rules let you do it.

 

Every Space Marine codex since has listed specific weapons that can be exchanged, and none of them list grenades.

[Solrac]

I would agree with you, if it weren't for the profile in the back of the dex. Frag grenades are already universally described in the BRB. Additionally, they are listed under wargear (wear other weapons are placed) rather than special rules... granted that wouldn't make much sense, but it would clarify it.

 

I argue it is a weapon with additional effects, which is not uncommon when it comes to weapons.

 

As I said Rules as Written vs Rules as Intended. No other book other than ours is worded like this (just checked the SM, SW and new BA book) and as per any past edition don't think it has ever  been intended as you are describing.

 

Trying to exploit this type of wording is like the players out there that were trying to say that Standard of Devastation worked on a Storm Bolter cause it was listed as a Boltgun under the new rulebook.

 

In the end that extra attack won't be a game changer anyway and I don't like stepping on other peoples toes trying to discuss RAW vs RAI for only 1 extra attack.

 

Do as you wish is the bottom line, I just won't be doing this.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I think it is too much of a stretch. I personally wouldn't go into that road, it leads to damnation and other nasty things. ;)

[aura_enchanted]

I think it is too much of a stretch. I personally wouldn't go into that road, it leads to damnation and other nasty things.

and you know what happens to traitors and heretics round these parts.. dont you OP?

http://avatars.guildlaunch.net/character_files/15630104/avatar4158.jpg

[shabbadoo]

Send the question to GW, and see what they say. Should be fun.

[Epimetheus13]

An unintended consequence of this thread is the realization that Power Fists on RAS Veteran sergeants is a darn good idea. I'm a newer DA player, so never thought of that before.

 

Power fists on non-veteran sgts is probably not a good idea, since a melta bomb is virtually as good for a much, much lower cost.

[aura_enchanted]

An unintended consequence of this thread is the realization that Power Fists on RAS Veteran sergeants is a darn good idea. I'm a newer DA player, so never thought of that before.

 

Power fists on non-veteran sgts is probably not a good idea, since a melta bomb is virtually as good for a much, much lower cost.

yea that's an old trick it works okay I guess

[JeffJedi]

You'd need to model it hanging from his belt.

 

What's that on your belt, Sgt? Oh, twin Lightning Claws.