Brom MKIV Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Sounds like a bunch of douches at that shop. Knights are fine, most LoW are too actually but character LoW are definitely a step below either. Ban knights. Otherwise run mass melta or the tri raven formation against his IKs a few times. See if he likes that better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 People who hide behind things like this just tend to be a bit of a C you next tuesday. LOW characters have never really been OP, you can make them in other book who arse as good for the most part, the only reason they are LOW is because they are the big chapter legend character. Considering the legitimate cheese lists you see I don't know how folks can complain. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Some of them aren't even that good....I'm staring at you, Gabriel Seth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Some of them aren't even that good....I'm staring at you, Gabriel Seth. and logan and ghazghull and macharius and....what are we talking about again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Jokes. If they decide to arbitrarily ban legal parts of the game, then do the same. No vehicles with more than 4 hull points. No movement phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Dante and draigo seem to be the only powerful low's. Seth is good for his points, but easily outmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robdukes Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 Update on the LoW talk with my 40k buddy So we've been talking about it and he looked at the stats for Dante and Seth. Didn't really sway his opinion, in fact it solidified it. He says his knight costs him as much as if I took Dante and Seth combined with points to spare. And that their stats are comparable to his Knight and Dante would be able to take his Knight out in one round. I didn't agree with all of this but whatever. But his main force is Dark Angels and they have no Lords of War. He has alot of Imperial Knights as well though. But I think that's one of the main things. DA have no LoW, and according to him their characters suck and the chapter master is terrible. So there is nothing for him to compare it to. So I say "what if we field LoWs if they are similar in style to Dante and Seth, but try to keep the really crazy ones out of normal matches just for funs sake". He says well the thunderhawk for example might be more powerful than Dante but it also costs 3 times as much so why not just say all LoW are OK seeing as you'll be paying alot more for them if they really are more powerful. He says escalation hasn't been FAQ'd so if they make them a LoW they are putting them in the same category as all rest. So I agreed, but also won't be taking Dante or Seth for awhile. It's only fair that If I field a LoW..he should be able to field any of them he wants within the current rules. We both agreed that having half of your forces taken out in one turn from a crazy flyer or monsterous LoW would hinder fun in the current environment of our gaming group. At least for the average game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Sounds like a typical dark angel ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Update on the LoW talk with my 40k buddy So we've been talking about it and he looked at the stats for Dante and Seth. Didn't really sway his opinion, in fact it solidified it. He says his knight costs him as much as if I took Dante and Seth combined with points to spare. And that their stats are comparable to his Knight and Dante would be able to take his Knight out in one round. I didn't agree with all of this but whatever. He sounds like a great guy to play against. How the hell can dante take down a knight? He can hurt it only if he gets the charge and even than it is nigh impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Update on the LoW talk with my 40k buddy So we've been talking about it and he looked at the stats for Dante and Seth. Didn't really sway his opinion, in fact it solidified it. He says his knight costs him as much as if I took Dante and Seth combined with points to spare. And that their stats are comparable to his Knight and Dante would be able to take his Knight out in one round. I didn't agree with all of this but whatever. I'm sorry to sound harsh but, from what you've explained, your friend sounds either immature, unintelligent or a bit of a bully. Dante can take out a Knight in one round? What crack is he smoking?! Tell him to stop. On the charge Dante would have to hit with all 6 attacks and then roll 6x 6s. Anyone care to hazard a guess of those odds? 1 in 46,656 (thats after hitting with everything too, btw ;) ) . Oh - and what about the Knight's return attack? Well - if the knight doesn't roll a 6 on the D attacks, and Dante doesnt fail a 4+ and take d3+1 wounds potentially killing him off the bat...there's a 1 in 6 chance the stomp just removes him. I'm sorry- this legitimately makes me angry because you are being bullied out of a perfectly legal and fair option by someone that has no idea what he's talking about. Seth has a far better chance (on the charge) of taking a knight out - but even then, thats not saying much. He would need to hit with all attacks and then roll 4+ for everything. What are the chances? Not bloody high. It's not about agreeing/disagreeing like both opinions are valid. Your friend is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Update on the LoW talk with my 40k buddy So we've been talking about it and he looked at the stats for Dante and Seth. Didn't really sway his opinion, in fact it solidified it. He says his knight costs him as much as if I took Dante and Seth combined with points to spare. And that their stats are comparable to his Knight and Dante would be able to take his Knight out in one round. I didn't agree with all of this but whatever. But his main force is Dark Angels and they have no Lords of War. He has alot of Imperial Knights as well though. But I think that's one of the main things. DA have no LoW, and according to him their characters suck and the chapter master is terrible. So there is nothing for him to compare it to. So I say "what if we field LoWs if they are similar in style to Dante and Seth, but try to keep the really crazy ones out of normal matches just for funs sake". He says well the thunderhawk for example might be more powerful than Dante but it also costs 3 times as much so why not just say all LoW are OK seeing as you'll be paying alot more for them if they really are more powerful. He says escalation hasn't been FAQ'd so if they make them a LoW they are putting them in the same category as all rest. So I agreed, but also won't be taking Dante or Seth for awhile. It's only fair that If I field a LoW..he should be able to field any of them he wants within the current rules. We both agreed that having half of your forces taken out in one turn from a crazy flyer or monsterous LoW would hinder fun in the current environment of our gaming group. At least for the average game. Is this your only opponent? If not drop his ass. He's coercing you into avoiding the units you want to play while still playing what he likes. That falls into the same realm as cheating. Its blatant and its BS. Theres very few LoW that really break the game btw. Nearly everything has a counter. Crying OP'd is a straight cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 You your friend is a bully. Seriously, stuff that guy. I'm angry like Morticon and I don't even know you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Now I don't know this guy at all but he seems like a bit of an ass. If he isn't your only opponent then drop him. If not however then ask him if you can try Dante in a game against his knights I mean I not very good at math but first to take down a knight Dante needs to get the charge and even then. I can't wait for the new dark angels book to come out and make azrael a LOW I wonder he will do then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 This guy is a dumbass. Direct him to this thread and/or stop playing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girot Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 *sniffle* I love you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girot Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Damit, all this talk about big stompyness... now I want a Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Fully agreed that your opponent is silly, also it really isnt valid to compare Dante with a Baneblade, just because they fill the same slot <.< Also, if DA were released now Azrael would fill the low slot with exactly the same rules as now. I dont even have to start about his dante vs knight example, thats just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robdukes Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I said the same thing about Azrael. I also stated alot of the things you guys did. I also referenced the last match against his knight. When I took Mefiston. I had Iron Arm on him too. So best possible scenario. Only thing missing was I failed the charge. But I went head to head with his knight and he smoked mefiston. In one round I did 1 hull point of damage and he wiped mefiston out. How would Dante do any better? Sure it's all down to dice rolls but still. Highly improbable. He isn't my only opponent, but he is my main opponent. There are 3 other guys that play...but not quite as often as me and this guy. So in order to keep it friendly I agreed that for now I won't be taking a LoW. If I do under the current rules he either gets the escalation bonuses (which he doesn't care about) or gets to field a LoW of his choice. So he would of course field a LoW and I guarantee it would be something crazy tough. Which would make me have to rethink taking Dante or Seth..totally negating the whole idea. Plus it would force me to buy expensive LoW options that I don't really want or need right now. So until they FAQ escalation or something to tier it up a bit...or maybe DA get a LoW..my Dante model will be collecting dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 The escalation rules aren't in the core book. Furthermore, the bonuses for vs Lords of war are only in play in the specific escalation missions - check FAQs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MephistonTheLordOfDeath Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The escalation rules aren't in the core book. Furthermore, the bonuses for vs Lords of war are only in play in the specific escalation missions - check FAQs Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robdukes Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 I guess i should have done my own homework and not trusted him then. He said "well has it been FAQd. I said idk i havent downloaded it yet. And he said "that was a trick question, it hasnt. I checked" and went on to tell me exactly what i said earlier. That he could take bonuses or choose any of the LoW to field if I did. I didnt question it because I didnt see much of anything about LoWs in the core book and im relatively new to 40k so havent read much other than 5th and 7th BA codex and 7th rulebook. Heck at first I didnt even think you could take LoWs in normal games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robdukes Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 And thanks again for the help. Trying to ask google questions about 40k doesn't always work out so well. This is definitely the best 40k/BA forum out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 (And sorry for the Red Thirsting here ><; We're usually a little calmer ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Take a FW Knight Cerastus yourself and giggle as you pile through his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robdukes Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well we talked about it again today and at first he didn't believe me and said he doesn't take forums word for anything. Wanted to see the rules that state you don't get the bonuses in a normal game etc. Then he found what he was looking for and conceded. But said that it seems most LGS ban them and people refuse to play against them because they see this as a loophole. But since its the rules he has no objections. So I said what Ive found is they are talking about monsterous LoWs, not guys like chapter masters. And he says "well of course you found people supporting the use of your LoW but not ones available to me. But im fine with it, it gives me a reason to spend money on a baneblade" So if I field Dante..he will be going up against a baneblade. I don't know baneblades stats but I'm guessing it will be a tough match up. I knew that was how this was gonna go down...but oh well. I'm sure his opinion will change once they make his chapter master a LoW..or If I let him play my Dante and I play his knight or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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