Did the Blood Angels get the Short straw?

[ElectricPaladin]

That will show. Too early. I, for my part, am having trouble to make a competitive list. However, I lack BA experience, make of it what you wish

I think BA is the best 7th ed codex from a stand alone viewpoint while SW seem better as allies.

What's with the SW hate around here

Dude, do you even need to ask?

http://i.imgur.com/BqKo71R.jpg?1

I'll see your garbage and raise you something pretty cool...

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/wodlogo_348.jpg

[Antarius]

I was a bit surprised that we didn't get the Hunter/Stalker and Landspeeder Storm. And I don't see why the Baal Predator lost outflank, as that seemed to be a big part of it's fluff/point (the FOC slot change made me wonder, but it's not gonna be a problem considered how 7th ed. plays).

 

All told I'd say it's the greatest Blood Angels Codex ever. Both rules- and fluff-wise.

[Frater Cornelius]

And I was trying to help you guys? Should've known better :P

 

Anyway, back on topic.

The thing that I find regretable is that BA have no access to Land Speeder Storm. But then again, GW wouldn't have sold a single Tac box if that was the case, so that's understandable.

 

@knife&ork - I also think BA is more solid on it's own. However, I think it is more due to the fact that allies do not fit in. Taxes take a lot of points away and thus would will be reduced to a bare minimum. Second, I do not see any real synergy apart from shared transports, seeing as most effect are BA only.

So you have no other choice but to make a pure force, if you want to access all your toys.

[Kaedes Nex]

Here's a good post on the topic: http://atomicspud40k.blogspot.com/2014/12/7th-edition-blood-angels-or-why-space.html

 

While the new codex will definitely seem to be worse in terms of changes or upgrades compared to the 5E one, you have to remember the 5E one was ridiculous and one-upped C:SM in every single way possible when it first came out. You also have to remember the fact that 7E is all about removing special troops and toning down ridiculous armies or rules. No doubt many other armies like Necrons and even C:SM with bike troops will be getting the same treatment as BA once they rotate into 7E, just like GK did.

[Gaweda]

Man, I can't wait for Necron to be updated. My own bloody Land Raider blew up my libby dread last night due to that one Necron Lord who can take over vehicles.

[Raktra]

That's just hilarious.

[Gaweda]

I'm usually a very amiable gamer, but I do admit to spending quite a few minutes thumbing through his codex when it happened in the vain hope that he was a dirty liar. Turns out he was just a dirty Necron...

And to think we allied with them.

[Cronhour]

I'm happy there's competitive lists in a style that suits our fluff, while I find the storm and stormtalon being left out a little hard to swallow I can live with it. I do wonder if it was a sales point though even thgough i'm not usually a gw cynic. mainly because outside on the formations I find it hard to justify tac marines. I had visions of tac full rhinos being the anvil to drop pods and jp hammer but with arbitrarily fast rhinos they get expensive when you don't want them to be, a fast vehicle with 1 stormbolter seems pretty pointless, but if you add a second weapon its more prohibitively expensive, especially in a detachment without objective secured.

[appiah4]

I'm usually a very amiable gamer, but I do admit to spending quite a few minutes thumbing through his codex when it happened in the vain hope that he was a dirty liar. Turns out he was just a dirty Necron...

And to think we allied with them.

And not once, but actually twice.. even after we got shafter by them the first time. Maybe Dante is a vehicle/robot as well and got controlled or something? After all, he is way old even for a Space Marine.. Now that's interesting.. Hmm..

[Xenith]

No. You're just looking for negatives.

 

Do you really believe that Hatred: CSM is better than furious charge?

[Raktra]

Apparently a strength boost that can apply against any opponent is preferable to a bonus against only one.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I think our codex is very solid, and the new SW codex isn't that strong in my opinion. Once you skip the TW mono-build I feel it's inferior as an assault codex compared to ours. Even with the 5th edition codex, I beat the new SW dex about five times already. Now, that's 3 different players and 3 different lists, but I feel that we always did assault better than them. TW are a problem, but in my time I forced a lot of saves with my Baal Predators to whittle them down and then swarmed them with my DC. Too bad the days of re-rolling wounds are gone unless you take Astorath.

Anyways, back to the codex: it's a beautiful thing. Some changes hurt me a lot, like the loss of jumpers from the troops section priests no longer provide a bubble and are HQ, and that Baals are now heavy and lost scout, yeah that's bad. Equally bad is the fact that we can't take a LSS, those things are lovely and complement our force so well...turn 1 tank explode, blind tests all around and the disruption field to be save from deepstriking units. Sigh, so terrific.

However, here's the positive things: What do I care about objective secured when I get +1 Ini AND +1 S on the charge? I no longer care about the wolves and their counter attack because not enough of them will survive to strike back SG are wonderful with the new price tag, as are our Captains and the relics. Even the warlord table is pretty nice, and by that I mean friggin' sweet!

Everything's cheaper now(except the 'Raven), and can work nicely together. Even when 6th edition declared the death of jump armies and the silly RG got a chapter trait that by right should have been ours, we can now field effective jumper armies(backed by scouts or Tacs, mind you ) and win decisively!

And a funny thing, Tactical Squads are now back and in my eyes, competitive again. Not only do they provide cheap anti-infantry weapons, the option to take heavy flamers is so nice. Take a combi-flamer, a flamer and a heavy flamer, double up the templates for the two normal flamers and then you roll for the HF. That's so much wounds, and the bolters didn't even fire yet. Even powerarmour'd marines will fear these squads because of the sheer amount of saves they will cause.

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself!

So in one word, no, we didn't get the short straw. We have a beautiful codex. Yes, it is different from the one we had, and it plays differently. We lost some options, we gained others. Some hurt more, some hurt less, and others will bring the hurt to our opponents on the table-top.

All in all, reading this codex is like shouting a battlehymn prior of the charge of the Blood Angels, turning its pages is like running your hand over the smooth curves of a beautifully designed wooden chair, and to hear the lamentations of our enemies at the sight of our armies is like making a sacrifice to the Emperor and Sanguinus. Kinda.

I do love that codex already.

Snorri

[Frater Cornelius]

[...]

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself!

[...]

Snorri

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

Second, Centurions say hi ;) The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

[Cronhour]

 

[...]

 

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself! :lol:

 

[...]

 

Snorri

 

 

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

 

Second, Centurions say hi ;) The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

Not anymore, every power armour build of merit is now likely to include a blood Angels detachment whether it's thundetwolves or centurion star.

[Frater Cornelius]

[...]

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself!

[...]

Snorri

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

Second, Centurions say hi The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

Not anymore, every power armour build of merit is now likely to include a blood Angels detachment whether it's thundetwolves or centurion star.

I hardly think so. Tell me what unit could be worth the HQ and Troops tax.

[Cronhour]

 

 

 

[...]

 

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself! :lol:

 

[...]

 

Snorri

 

 

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

 

Second, Centurions say hi ;) The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

Not anymore, every power armour build of merit is now likely to include a blood Angels detachment whether it's thundetwolves or centurion star.

 

I hardly think so. Tell me what unit could be worth the HQ and Troops tax.

Sanguinary priest, 5 scouts, drop pod (for centurions) plus any of excellent elites.

 

Or often just the priest and scouts that's what 125 points for FnP and 5 sniper scouts, Thunderwolves and centurions say hello.

[Frater Cornelius]

[...]

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself!

[...]

Snorri

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

Second, Centurions say hi The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

Not anymore, every power armour build of merit is now likely to include a blood Angels detachment whether it's thundetwolves or centurion star.

I hardly think so. Tell me what unit could be worth the HQ and Troops tax.

Sanguinary priest, 5 scouts, drop pod (for centurions) plus any of excellent elites.

Or often just the priest and scouts that's what 125 points for FnP and 5 sniper scouts, Thunderwolves and centurions say hello.

There are better ways to defend your stars. Sevrin Loth can choose powers from Biomancy and Invisibility, the disciplines that contain the arguably strongest powers in the game, namely Invisibility and Endurance.

For that reason alone Red Scorps and Ultra Marines are way more appealing allies than BA will ever be.

Imperial Guard do not need SP for FnP. They can get a much better setup. Take Azrael as Warlord (he chooses his trait), get the FnP for unit trait from the DA book and stick him in a 50man Guard blob. Voila, you have 50 dudes with 4++ and 5+ FnP on top of any other chars you throw in there (like a Ministorum Priest).

Codex Marines are the only ones who could get any mileage from BA, but that is ONLY because of the pod. They get access to FnP through their command squads, on bike of cause. All they need is a better delivery system for Cents. At that point is does not matter which faction you choose, either BA or SW, to get those.

This sort of setup does not require BA Elites. SM armies are usually bikes and/or pods and 90% shooty. Throwing in a melee unit is not in their interest.

Alternatively, just get Draigo and jump your Cents around.

If you want a melee unit, TWC will do a better job at a smaller tax (with COF) and bring one of the stronger melee characters in the game.

Having BA is nice, but far from broken enough to be considered an auto-include.

[Cronhour]

 

 

 

 

 

[...]

 

And once you read the fluff, I know that many people skip that part but to me that's as equally important, you'll recognise that we're still Marines + one bazillion. Every text that's written in there praises the Blood Angels as the Imperium's only hope and as the best warriors in the galaxy. I couldn't have written that better myself! :lol:

 

[...]

 

Snorri

 

 

First off, every codex mentions it's respective faction the sole hope of the Imperium.

 

Second, Centurions say hi ;) The only reason you see any sort of Power Armour on higher end table at all are Centurions and arguably Tigurius.

Not anymore, every power armour build of merit is now likely to include a blood Angels detachment whether it's thundetwolves or centurion star.

 

I hardly think so. Tell me what unit could be worth the HQ and Troops tax.

Sanguinary priest, 5 scouts, drop pod (for centurions) plus any of excellent elites.

Or often just the priest and scouts that's what 125 points for FnP and 5 sniper scouts, Thunderwolves and centurions say hello.

 

There are better ways to defend your stars. Sevrin Loth can choose powers from Biomancy and Invisibility, the disciplines that contain the arguably strongest powers in the game, namely Invisibility and Endurance.

For that reason alone Red Scorps and Ultra Marines are way more appealing allies than BA will ever be.

 

Imperial Guard do not need SP for FnP. They can get a much better setup. Take Azrael as Warlord (he chooses his trait), get the FnP for unit trait from the DA book and stick him in a 50man Guard blob. Voila, you have 50 dudes with 4++ and 5+ FnP on top of any other chars you throw in there (like a Ministorum Priest).

 

Codex Marines are the only ones who could get any mileage from BA, but that is ONLY because of the pod. They get access to FnP through their command squads, on bike of cause. All they need is a better delivery system for Cents. At that point is does not matter which faction you choose, either BA or SW, to get those.

This sort of setup does not require BA Elites. SM armies are usually bikes and/or pods and 90% shooty. Throwing in a melee unit is not in their interest.

Alternatively, just get Draigo and jump your Cents around.

 

Having BA is nice, but far from broken enough to be considered an auto-include.

Azrael plus troops tax is how much? Plus it means he'd have to be your warlord, also he doesn't confer to anyone not DA and not within 3" of an objective so it's a really poor expensive alternative that d doesn't work.

 

You can't join a command squad to a unit of Thunderwolves or centurions either, seriously dude, I don't think it's perfect cheese but it's beginning to sound like you have an axe to grind?

[Captain Caine 24th]

Three fast attack pods is a nice gift for an allied detachment of 1HQ and 2 Troops. Dante seems very good, but I'll have to play with him a for a while to see how he works out. In a way as he isn't an HQ there is sort of an HQ tax that needs to be paid to take him. And deep striking can be good, but also has it's limitations. 

 

There's nothing saying more Blood Angels won't come out, or more formations won't show up. Who knows maybe that rumored skimmer tank shows up and Descent of Angels get's a whole lot more serious. 

 

Bottom line, I can't use my Baals, assault squads, dreadnoughts, command squad, or Mephiston in the same capacity I used to. So I'm not thrilled. But, this statement by itself doesn't make the codex bad. Instead it means I've got to reinvent my army and find new ways to win. For a long time I've felt terminators weren't the best due to the lack of sweeping advance and high points cost. But, I've played those new grey knights with turn 1 deepstrike. I know terminators can still be mean. The new rules really seem to be hinting that I need to take another look at them. 

 

Maybe even the old techmarine sees some fighting and he turns out to be my best HQ choice in the army that I want to build--low points cost has a use. I've got to rethink the way I fight and in doing that the real value of the new Blood Angels might start to show up. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Those are all setups I encountered in a tournament. A 50 man blob with Azzy should not have any difficulty being within an objective. 7ed rules allow Battle-Brothers to benefit from Warlord Traits.

Centurions and TWC do not need a FnP character when you can have Chapter Master tank, Invis or Endurance.

 

I am not saying BA are bad allies, but you made it sound like an high end auto-include, which is just not true. If anything, BA make a far greater Primary Detachment with some allies to bolster their ranks.

 

Besides, gotta balance out the SW hate with a bit of BA hate, don't you think ;)

[Deschenus Maximus]

I'm with Immersturm. BA dex is a fine book but it's FAR removed from being auto-include.

[appiah4]

Death Company with Jump Packs should be an auto include in any C:SM list I would think.  They are incredible utility for what they offer.  You can suffer taking a barebones Scout CCW squad (S5) and a Librarian (Sanguinary Discipline) to accompany the Death Company.

[Cronhour]

Those are all setups I encountered in a tournament. A 50 man blob with Azzy should not have any difficulty being within an objective. 7ed rules allow Battle-Brothers to benefit from Warlord Traits.

Centurions and TWC do not need a FnP character when you can have Chapter Master tank, Invis or Endurance.

I am not saying BA are bad allies, but you made it sound like an high end auto-include, which is just not true. If anything, BA make a far greater Primary Detachment with some allies to bolster their ranks.

Besides, gotta balance out the SW hate with a bit of BA hate, don't you think

you got jibbed in the tourney as it specificly says Dark angels unit of which i'm sure can't have a 50 man blob. the capter master tank, invis and endurence can all be gained from their own codex a 115 point fnp giving ally is a really cheap way to buff a deathstar, at least thats what i hear from tourney players and podcasts

[Kilofix]

Also, keep in mind that if you take a Flesh Tearers Detachment its 1 HQ, 1 Troop and 1 Fast minimum with up to 6 Fast.

 

So that's 6 Drop Pods for a 1 HQ, 1 Troop overhead.

 

Edit - FT Detachment is from Extermination.

[Deschenus Maximus]

@appiah5: DC aren't anywhere close to autoinclude. They are a strong unit but if you want to throw some hard CC units in a SM list you go with T-wolves, not DC.