Frater Cornelius Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Those are all setups I encountered in a tournament. A 50 man blob with Azzy should not have any difficulty being within an objective. 7ed rules allow Battle-Brothers to benefit from Warlord Traits. Centurions and TWC do not need a FnP character when you can have Chapter Master tank, Invis or Endurance. I am not saying BA are bad allies, but you made it sound like an high end auto-include, which is just not true. If anything, BA make a far greater Primary Detachment with some allies to bolster their ranks. Besides, gotta balance out the SW hate with a bit of BA hate, don't you think you got jibbed in the tourney as it specificly says Dark angels unit of which i'm sure can't have a 50 man blob. the capter master tank, invis and endurence can all be gained from their own codex a 115 point fnp giving ally is a really cheap way to buff a deathstar, at least thats what i hear from tourney players and podcasts Hm, looks like your are right. Not like it helped him anyway. The FnP is fine. Not something I value above the stuff I mentioned before, but it is useful. Still, one model does not do justice to the entire codex. Or do you want your identity to be FnP caddy? I still stand by that BA are better taken as primary, not as allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 No I think we can do fine as a primary detachment or rather a baal alongside allies or cad just I hear many competitive players speak excitedly of stars buffed by priests (T5 2+ wound models especially.) Also of Dante who Is especially slappy, more so with a BA libby( who can also buff none BA charactes and units) and/or a priest buffing him. Not to mention cheaper spamable Jp elites in the dc and sg and cheap grav/melta/plasma delivery systems in podded assault squads. Meta busting was a term I heard when you consider we're now a power armour army that strikes before other power armour army's on the charge. Overpowered no, competative maybe, absent? Unlikly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 It would be Meta busting if SM were the meta. Unfortunately, the meta is overrun by Eldar, Tau, Crons and Daemons, with SM appearing here or there. Given the power level of the current 7ed books, I doubt that we will have a major shift until the big 4 have been redesigned. Necrons are about to be hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 I'd agree that the Blood Angels are the strongest release of 7th. The Wolves are a great allied detachment just like the Dark Eldar. The orks are "meh", and the GKs are gutted by the 7th ed psychic rules that make psychic powers so unreliable. All in all, the IXth Legion got a great codex and a mountain of excellent detachment and formation options. They lost two very specific builds that were both bad in 7th and gained one of the strongest things Space Marines get access to. Admittedly, 7th made Troops a tax again, but at least pur Elites, Fast Attack, and Heavy Support are loaded with viable choices. The army comes with 4 choices of Elite assault units that can all function, several highly efficient Fast Attack fire support platforms, and multiple effective Heavy Support choices. My only issue with the Blood Angel book is a lack of psychic units outside HQ that make it hard to build a decent pool of dice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Here's a good post on the topic: http://atomicspud40k.blogspot.com/2014/12/7th-edition-blood-angels-or-why-space.html Err... yeah, SM is still better than BA I'm afraid. It's not a blowout but SM just function better within this edition of shootyhammer 40k. Besides, Storm Talons & Thunderfire cannons > DC and whatnot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If you want Storm Talons can't you just take the formation? There's also Stronghold Assault for added anti-air. Is it really a big disadvantage to not have Talons/Hunter/Stalker in the codex itself? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 More just a pain in the arse. Principles, man, principles! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 @LutherMax: the formation is a big investment in points. In a 1500 pts list, I wouldn't want more than 1, maybe 2 flyers. And fortifications are just a straight-up inferior answer to flyers. than having your own flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Fair point. Given the option I suppose I might choose two Talons and a Land Raider over two and a Stormraven so I have my main assault unit on the table turn 1... The formation does have its advantages too though - Strafing rule plus one reserve roll (re-rollable in certain conditions) for all three flyers. I've heard Talons work better in pairs, if you want just one flyer isn't the Stormraven a better investment anyway..? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The formation is a lot less points efficient for AA than just two Storm Talons. And if I were spending the points of the formation I'd rather grab two storm ravens so I can put 2 5 man cc scout squads in each for late game drops. Granted, I have the free Heavy Support slots for them.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3900907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Storm Talons aren't terribly good AA either. They'll force jinks but the odds of getting enough shots through and down something aren't great. I wonder at which points it's better to try and hit flyers with a non sky-fire weapon just so the opponent won't try to gain that cover..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Storm Talons aren't terribly good AA either. They'll force jinks but the odds of getting enough shots through and down something aren't great. I wonder at which points it's better to try and hit flyers with a non sky-fire weapon just so the opponent won't try to gain that cover..... Twin Linked and/or volume of fire S6+ weapons are surprisingly good at this. Twin linked Autocannons, Assault Cannons and Lascannons can cause some serious unexpected hurt. I really enjoy my TLLC/ML dreadnought in this side role, for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 When I look at SM I see Tigurius, Doctrines, Bike Troops, Centurions and Land Speeder Storm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaweda Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If I wanted to win every game, I'd play Eldar. C:SM has many more options than us yes, but it's covering how many chapters? I really feel like this whole thread is arguing a moot point; this codex is a fantastic representation of our Blood Angels. We have the option to ally in other armies, and that can fill these so called holes. But a pure Blood Angel force is still a good army, so I really don't see any issues. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docrailgun Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 A detachment of White Scars bikes (which are going to be Troops anyway) fit in quite well and give a BA player more mobile grav guns. A detachment of a SW HQ and two minimum-sized squads of Blood Claws do fine as well (because they're riding in Stormwolves). And I was trying to help you guys? Should've known better Anyway, back on topic.The thing that I find regretable is that BA have no access to Land Speeder Storm. But then again, GW wouldn't have sold a single Tac box if that was the case, so that's understandable.@knife&ork - I also think BA is more solid on it's own. However, I think it is more due to the fact that allies do not fit in. Taxes take a lot of points away and thus would will be reduced to a bare minimum. Second, I do not see any real synergy apart from shared transports, seeing as most effect are BA only.So you have no other choice but to make a pure force, if you want to access all your toys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Dropping in after reading the OP and a brief perusal of some subsequent posts....did we get shafted? Well if we did I shall have to re-evaluate myself, because if that was a shafting please sir can I have some more sir, because I bloody well loved it :D Absolutely love this dex. So many buffs across the statlines from so many different sources - I mean, WS, I, S on charge, A from 2 different psychic powers and chapter banner - and universal serious drop in JP cost. Psychic powers may not be as awesome as others but they are more awesome for BA and that's what matters. Relics. Other stuff I probably forgot. Oh yeah and Dante. Mmmmm yeah, give it to me baby :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I reckon our psychic powers are pretty awesome in that they're all pretty useful against most opponents, it's just we lack in-built Warp Charge massing tricks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Its simple enough to build a pool of psyched copper tops for Blood Angels with imperium allies but if psychic builds are important to your Blood Angel army your doing it wrong. Theres only a few disciplines that are OP the main culprit is in Telepathy. There is a reason BA lost codex access to Telepathy in 7th and its got something to do with GW game designers not wanting to see a ball of Invisible jump pack equipped Death Company wrecking stuff and making small children and neckbeards cry or laugh depending on which side of the table they are on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Its simple enough to build a pool of psyched copper tops for Blood Angels with imperium allies but if psychic builds are important to your Blood Angel army your doing it wrong. Theres only a few disciplines that are OP the main culprit is in Telepathy. There is a reason BA lost codex access to Telepathy in 7th and its got something to do with GW game designers not wanting to see a ball of Invisible jump pack equipped Death Company wrecking stuff and making small children and neckbeards cry or laugh depending on which side of the table they are on SW can't have Telepathy either. I think they do not really mind Invisible DC or TWC as much. They just want you to use allies and buy more models to access Invisibility. On the other hand, I do expect Tiggy to be hit with the nerf bat when their time comes. At least I am hoping it :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 @ Raktra yes there's room for a few more WC. On average our max (w/o mephy) is 7-8, which is only 3-4 rolls of 4+. So I'll consider myself lucky if I get two powers off, but at least we are in a position to make them count. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Its simple enough to build a pool of psyched copper tops for Blood Angels with imperium allies but if psychic builds are important to your Blood Angel army your doing it wrong. Theres only a few disciplines that are OP the main culprit is in Telepathy. There is a reason BA lost codex access to Telepathy in 7th and its got something to do with GW game designers not wanting to see a ball of Invisible jump pack equipped Death Company wrecking stuff and making small children and neckbeards cry or laugh depending on which side of the table they are on SW can't have Telepathy either. I think they do not really mind Invisible DC or TWC as much. They just want you to use allies and buy more models to access Invisibility. On the other hand, I do expect Tiggy to be hit with the nerf bat when their time comes. At least I am hoping it :D Can't Sevrin loth do something similar? It would be nice if forgeworld could change that but alas they are to busy doing the horus heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LutherMax Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Storm Talons aren't terribly good AA either. They'll force jinks but the odds of getting enough shots through and down something aren't great. I wonder at which points it's better to try and hit flyers with a non sky-fire weapon just so the opponent won't try to gain that cover..... What makes you say Talons aren't good at anti air? I thought that was their sole purpose! Also isn't the problem with non-skyfire that you can only make snap shots? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I don't think we were shafted at all. One death company marine: +1 str. on charge +1 initiative on charge (it will go first against other PA units) 2 attacks + 1 extra close combat weapons + 1 for rage + 1 for charge for a total of 5 attacks. Couple that with the Unleash Rage power, and you get 6 attacks. 6 x 5 = 30. Hand flamers to burn the enemy + regular pistol shots before charge + 30 attacks on charge for five guys, with an increased chance to do damage. They won't survive to fight back. Throw in a chaplain and they do even better. Or you can load up your death company with bolters: Rapid Fire bringing out 10 shots + Charge with + 25 close combat attacks. I absolutely love the new BA psychic powers. All of them. Make the enemy unit run away with fear the dark, get your guys across the field with wings, protect them with shield, the turn of the charge you unleash rage. It's perfect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Storm Talons are good for forcing jink. Flyers are utterly irrelevant in 7th Ed unless they do damage via shooting, so being able to make things Jink is beneficial. I do think Talons should have gone in this book. It makes sense. They are a 'Codex' chapter afterall. This book's go to unit is the 5 man triple Melta Assault marines in a drop pod. Sanguinary Guard are a great hammer unit with Dante/Priest and +1I detachment, but its a considerable outlay and that unit IS NOT a DeathStar as it doesnt have the durability of ThunderPriests/CommandBikes etc etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3901341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 BA's have one of the few Solid Codices that can rely on its own strength without getting allies to deal other than Anti - Aircraft and you can still get Devs with flakk missiles behind Quadgun to improve that, which is more than Grey Knights get. Blood Angels strength is combi play. We can use Sternguards with Special ammo's whittle down large monstrous creatures from range and finish them off in close combat with Death Company. Our army is incredibly mobile with still tough defenses. We can strike almost anywhere at board with combining teleport homers in pods, scouts or Stormravens like Vanilla's but our fire support and vehicles also get much faster to close support making our deep strikes potenttially much more leathal than other marines. We are also still only force that can assault after deep striking albeit that comes with very heavy points tax in form of formation. Fast VIndi's and Baal's are just down right mean. Death Company is one of the premier shock troop / assault forces in the 40K. Our ability to boost regular Tactical troops to take down elites C&C specialists and buffing entire army with Eldar-like speed with Marine toughness is great aspect. Our psychers got access some of the meanest and best abilties in the imperial forces. Its just that new Codex forces us to play differently than we have gotten used... but we still can field Termiantor Librarian with FOrce Axe and Stormshield and laugh as he takes down Wraithknight with single blow... Or get Sanguinary Sword and cutdown Wraithkngith with S10 Ap3 force sword with single strike. There's lots of potential in our new codex. Just getting all sorted out for play style takes bit time. But I have confidence in new Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/300936-did-the-blood-angels-get-the-short-straw/page/4/#findComment-3902431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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