Henry Zou?

[Half Goat]

Henry Zou seems to have disappeared from the spotlight since his run-in with the plagiarism police. Since his Bastion wars trilogy, I haven't heard or seen his name anywhere, and I guess black library have simply dropped him so as not to be associated with his slip-up.

I for one am very sorry as I thoroughly enjoyed his trilogy and would love to read more from him.

Does anybody know anything more about his future with black library? has anything been mentioned at the black library weekers? Who would like to see more from mr Zou?
 

[Chaeron]

Few threads down this was discussed, there was a somewhat awkward plagiarism accusation that has seemingly stalled his career...

[Olis]

Afaik he was booted by BL. Can't remember who said it but it seems to fit the facts. Haven't seen hide nor hair of him for years.

[Chaeron]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298440-strong-and-weak-points-of-bl-authors/?p=3845366

 

Has a run down of it from what I've read and collated from elsewhere. Naturally, take with a pinch of salt - now they've obviously put the three into an omnibus but he's not published anything with them since.

[Conn Eremon]

According to Lexicanum, he has a short in Planetkill, but that's the extent of his writing.

[Half Goat]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298440-strong-and-weak-points-of-bl-authors/?p=3845366

 

Has a run down of it from what I've read and collated from elsewhere. Naturally, take with a pinch of salt - now they've obviously put the three into an omnibus but he's not published anything with them since.

I read that earlier whilst searching the forums for information, very helpful thanks.  I wondered if the questions had perhaps come up at BL weekers and if there is any indication that they may have him back in the future. Whilst I don't want to descend into debatn over what he did (I don't dispute it is wrong and the one thing an author definitely should not do) It is a damn shame to kill his career over it. 

[Conn Eremon]

I think it would have been less damaging if it hadn't been his first real books, you know? Maybe if he had a set of books where no accusations could be aimed, he might have gotten off easier. Like if he wasn't still the new kid on the block.

 

Or maybe he tried to defend his actions, or just seemed like he didn't see what he did as wrong, or he felt it didn't count as plagiarism for whatever reason he had, and so led others to believe he'd just do it again.

 

Or maybe they have a zero tolerance policy about that stuff. Some authors, like Abnett, will lift elements and themes wholesale off of other works, but will always make it seem more like an interpretation, or I suppose a "parody" of the original work as if set in 40k. Their detractors might call it unoriginal, but it isn't plagiarism. Maybe BL just drops authors flat if they are caught plagiarizing, whoever they are, however much they did it.

 

Or maybe a hundred different reasons working in tandem. If you enjoyed his work, it's unfortunate that there are no more, and likely never will be. But, it is what it is.

[Kilofix]

Was it just Flesh and Iron that was the issue, or other books too?

[Chaeron]

According to Lexicanum, he has a short in Planetkill, but that's the extent of his writing.

 

Although, that was published 2008 - prior to all of this!

 

Was it just Flesh and Iron that was the issue, or other books too?

 

My understanding was that Flesh and Iron was near enough it - there were a few other things stated, but I think that's the one where it's really lifted near verbatim.

 

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298440-strong-and-weak-points-of-bl-authors/?p=3845366

 

Has a run down of it from what I've read and collated from elsewhere. Naturally, take with a pinch of salt - now they've obviously put the three into an omnibus but he's not published anything with them since.

I read that earlier whilst searching the forums for information, very helpful thanks.  I wondered if the questions had perhaps come up at BL weekers and if there is any indication that they may have him back in the future. Whilst I don't want to descend into debatn over what he did (I don't dispute it is wrong and the one thing an author definitely should not do) It is a damn shame to kill his career over it. 

 

 

No problem. I've not heard from any source as to whether that's discussed - I think people probably wouldn't touch that sort of issue with a barge pole. I think if he offered something that others didn't, in terms of a story or narrative arc, they probably would - but as their cadre expands, they're probably more geared to people who may not have this hanging over them...

 

My understanding however is that the section in question remained in the omnibus - whereas perhaps removing it (as the originals are well out of print now) may have been a good move, it could equally be a tacit acceptance it occurred (which I'm relatively sure Zou denied heavily).

[Kilofix]

Slight digression but Rob Sander's Redemption Corp also had elements lifted from Blackhawk Down.

[Phoebus]

No offense, Kilofix, but I really wish things like this (Redemptions Corps vs Blackhawk Down) wouldn't be brought up without specific citations.

 

Case in point, I remember when I first read that Abnett either lifted elements from, or ripped off outright, the Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell.  Unless the intent was to argue that the Cornwell owned rights to regimental-level war fiction, or political machinations between officers ostensibly on the same side, I'm at a loss.  Granted, I haven't read the entirety of the Sharpe series, but I've yet to recognize anything beyond the broadest, most generalized similarities.

[Captain Tezdal]

Enjoyed blood gorgons immensely, but his other novels didn't do much for me.

[Kriegsmacht]

You're not at a loss Phoebus.

 

I've read a couple Sharpe books and watched all the TV series starring Sean Bean. There are parts I found similar like Gaunt/Sharpe rising up from the ranks with soldiers under their command disliking them(except Gaunt wasn't a man of the ranks). Also Cuu reminded me of Obadiah Hakeswill but that's even a stretch since Cuu wasn't a personal enemy of Gaunt.

 

I can't remember if Gaunt was a favorite of Macaroth which could be a reminder of Sharpe being favored by Wellesley. At least that's the impression I got from what I read/seen.

 

In the end nothing really lifted. To me it was just reminders and similarities but nothing that really broke the experience of reading Gaunts stories.

[Conn Eremon]

No offense, Kilofix, but I really wish things like this (Redemptions Corps vs Blackhawk Down) wouldn't be brought up without specific citations.

 

Case in point, I remember when I first read that Abnett either lifted elements from, or ripped off outright, the Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. Unless the intent was to argue that the Cornwell owned rights to regimental-level war fiction, or political machinations between officers ostensibly on the same side, I'm at a loss. Granted, I haven't read the entirety of the Sharpe series, but I've yet to recognize anything beyond the broadest, most generalized similarities.

I believe the old thread actually had quotes from both Zou's books and the ones he is accused of plagiarizing, if you are wanting some.

 

As for Abnett and Sharpe, that was the specific instance I was thinking of when I was typing one of my earlier posts. Those who have read Sharpe will see that he clearly lifted themes and was heavily influenced by those books in making Gaunt's Ghosts. They really are Sharpe in Space. Prospero Burns was also very thematically similar to Eaters of the Dead, though to a much lesser extent.

 

But as you say, it is far from plagiarism, as it is too generalized a similarity. But it's something that is rife in 40k, though it's what attracted me to it in the first place. A lot of what makes 40k what it is, is the large amounts of Something IN SPAAAACE. Clear inspiration is derived, and while it's not technically a comedic parody, it's the only term I know that comes closest to what the whole 'something in space' thing is.

[Kriegsmacht]

YEah that's basically what I was trying to say in my ramblings. Inspiration

[Kilofix]

No offense, Kilofix, but I really wish things like this (Redemptions Corps vs Blackhawk Down) wouldn't be brought up without specific citations.

 

Case in point, I remember when I first read that Abnett either lifted elements from, or ripped off outright, the Sharpe series by Bernard Cornwell. Unless the intent was to argue that the Cornwell owned rights to regimental-level war fiction, or political machinations between officers ostensibly on the same side, I'm at a loss. Granted, I haven't read the entirety of the Sharpe series, but I've yet to recognize anything beyond the broadest, most generalized similarities.

I apologize.

 

Not going to type out actual paragraphs from the book but here's the gist of it:

 

There's a section in the book where the Guard organizes a mission to rescue Titan Princeps. Two groups go in, Valkyries to drop Spec Ops, followed by ground convoy to extract. Valkyrie gets shot down. Ground convoy reroutes but has trouble getting to crash site because of blockades. Another Valkyrie drops two snipers at crash site to help downed Valkyries crew. Vultures strafe the site to prevent Cultist mob from overrunning the downed Valkyrie's crew. Protagonist splits small group from convoy to link up with downed Valkyrie on foot.

 

Edit - more specific scenes: Guardsman's finger getting shot off, vibration in the tail of a Valk that was hit, rockets from rooftops, cupola gunner getting shot and protagonist having to take over, loading wounded into convoy, etc.

 

Granted, the book has storyline beyond the above. But those plot elements are very recognizably BHD.

[Quixus]

You're not at a loss Phoebus.

 

I've read a couple Sharpe books and watched all the TV series starring Sean Bean. There are parts I found similar like Gaunt/Sharpe rising up from the ranks with soldiers under their command disliking them(except Gaunt wasn't a man of the ranks). Also Cuu reminded me of Obadiah Hakeswill but that's even a stretch since Cuu wasn't a personal enemy of Gaunt.

 

I can't remember if Gaunt was a favorite of Macaroth which could be a reminder of Sharpe being favored by Wellesley. At least that's the impression I got from what I read/seen.

 

In the end nothing really lifted. To me it was just reminders and similarities but nothing that really broke the experience of reading Gaunts stories.

From what I saw in the TV series, I had the same impression. In fact I started watching the series because I read somewhere that Abnett was heavily influenced (read accused of plagiarism on the internet) by the books.

 

I haven't read enough of the Sharpe books to confirm it there, but Abnett seems to have split TV Harper into Rawne and Corbec. Before being discovered a psyker, there are also some similarities between Milo and that kid in the 96th Rifles (forgot his name).

[No Foes Remain]

 

You're not at a loss Phoebus.

 

I've read a couple Sharpe books and watched all the TV series starring Sean Bean. There are parts I found similar like Gaunt/Sharpe rising up from the ranks with soldiers under their command disliking them(except Gaunt wasn't a man of the ranks). Also Cuu reminded me of Obadiah Hakeswill but that's even a stretch since Cuu wasn't a personal enemy of Gaunt.

 

I can't remember if Gaunt was a favorite of Macaroth which could be a reminder of Sharpe being favored by Wellesley. At least that's the impression I got from what I read/seen.

 

In the end nothing really lifted. To me it was just reminders and similarities but nothing that really broke the experience of reading Gaunts stories.

From what I saw in the TV series, I had the same impression. In fact I started watching the series because I read somewhere that Abnett was heavily influenced (read accused of plagiarism on the internet) by the books.

 

I haven't read enough of the Sharpe books to confirm it there, but Abnett seems to have split TV Harper into Rawne and Corbec. Before being discovered a psyker, there are also some similarities between Milo and that kid in the 96th Rifles (forgot his name).

 

Perkins.

 

I've watched them all enough times to know all the names. It was the only thing Sean Bean didn't die in....

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Spoiler for 'Ronin', John Frankenheimer's 1998 film:

 

Sean Bean's character didn't die, either, but he probably wishes he did.

 

[Lucien Eilam]

I think when you've started talking about characters being split up into multiple different characters, it's time to accept that maybe it isn't based all that directly on something else after all. There's only so much any author can do with ensemble cast pulp military adventure fiction, set in space or not. There are loads of similar series, Sharpe is just the one everybody's heard of.
 
What you're talking about are recurrent themes and archetypes, not plagiarism. What Henry Zou was accused of was lifting passages almost word for word. That's completely different. Themes, character traits and events are not protectable. Text is.
 
And a gentle reminder that if you can't prove it (or afford to prove it…), accusing authors of plagiarism is libel, and that's their livelihood you're threatening. It's not something to suggest lightly.

[Quixus]

Yeah there's nothing new under the sun. I never accused anyone of plagiarism, I just said that Abnett might be heavily influenced by other works.

 

BTW Sean Bean's character in Legends hasn't died (yet) either.

[Phoebus]

I'll have to withhold comment on Redemption Corps until I read it.  I maintain that Gaunt's Ghosts is in no way like "Sharpe in Space".  Fiction, as others have mentioned in this topic, is limited to only so many concepts, tropes, and themes.  The "young aide/attache" concept existed long before the Sharpe novels, and the fact that it exists in another series cannot (in my humble opinion) be used as a basis to argue that Milo is either copied or even simply inspired from this supposed counterpart.

 

Similarly, hearing Prospero Burns described as "thematically very similar" to Eaters of the Dead simply raises my eyebrows.  The two novels share in common a viking trope and an outsider narrator. I struggle to recall another similarity. In Eaters, Buliwyf and his warriors are summoned to aid a friendly king against purported neanderthals, and are constrained by their cultural requirements to provide a small number of warriors - of whom one must be an outsider.  In Prospero, Russ and the Vlka Fenryka march to destroy Prospero - itself an ​advanced civilization - at the behest of Horus/the Emperor, to punish purported treason.  The narrator, yes, an outsider, is a known (well, to Russ at least) ...

 

 

... if unwitting fifth columnist who was planted in the VI Legion without knowing by whom or for what reason.

 

 

Probably the only property that I think Warhammer 40k truly borrows material from (as opposed to inspiration and broad themes like White Scars = Space Mongols) is the Dune universe: e.g., Navigators, the Butlerian Jihad, etc.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Almost everything Abnett does is derivative. The opening chapter of Unremembered Novel is an homage to Act I Scene i of Hamlet, lol. Prospero Burns is the 13th Warrior (or Eaters of the Dead for the Chricton readers) retold with Space Wolves (and some other historical references sprinkled in). Double Eagle was a mish-mash of WW2 fighter squadron serials.

 

It's not plagiarism though, in the strict definition of the word. In a way, Abnett is the perfect 40K author. Everything in 40K is derivative, so why should the novelizations be any different?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

If anyone is a member of FanFiction (I'm not), can they ask if The Lycanthrope is one of Henry Zou's pennames? Both are Australians, both are military veterans (or so The Lycanthrope claims), both have an interest in the supernatural (Henry Zou claimed he joined the Australian Army to prepare for a zombie apocalypse, in the author's page that The Black Library had, and a lycanthrope is a werewolf), and both have written 'Warhammer 40,000' stories.

[helterskelter]

Aww man! I only just wandered into this thread, not the news i needed for a 2015 start. I accept i'm more often than not late to the game, but i really enjoyed Blood Gorgons! I wont join in on the abnett thing, the only thing i truly like of his was the V.C.'s reboot and not being gw stuff can't say more than that. Though on mentioning that the GW verse is a parody I'm nearly at a loss as to find an original thought from them since the 80's if you really look into what they produce. Christopher Lee is in a BA codex for heavens sake