Dark Angel Popularity

[Lord Kasalladalla]

When you guys play against new opponents, when you say you play Dark Angels, do you get a negative response? Do you think the 40K community sees the Dark Angels as cheaters, weak strategists, or do you think they wonder why that chapter?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

What you are telling is news to me. The worse response I get is on how brave I am to play with such a bad codex....

[twopounder]

There are a few unpkeasent people these forums (one person comes to mind who actually has a petition to remove DA from the game as his forum signature). But overall, most people like the background and don't think the codex is broken at all. Well, until I run 10 deathwing knights into their power units.

 

Mostly I'm just annoyed by the stupid "Dark Angels are really just chaos" or "Dark Angels belong in the chaos codex" comments.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I agree with Lucifer. Most people ask me why I handcuff myself like that? But I enjoy it adds a whole new dynamic for my gaming group (one other guy plays DA and then only rarely) otherwise the tactics are different than what most people see so I enjoy it. If someone is complaining then ask them to show you where everyone (internet at least) thinks that DA are overpowered and awesome.

 

Fluffwise DA are supposed to be some of the best Strategists. Of course if you listen to any of the fluff about any chapter they are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Sneaky and cheaters is probably because we are always so secluded.

 

We are the best of the best of the best and that is all there is to it.

 

Realistically I think we have a great Codex that takes some talent to learn and use properly think DA as Regular Codex on hard mode.

[shandwen]

What they all said.

That being said there seems to be a few of the best loyalist units in the game, and the most flexible terminators, but also some of the worst costed stuff too.

Unbound DA lists can be naaty things... Cypher breaks the codex in unbound.

[aura_enchanted]

I get a lot of eyerolls expecting me to give up playing them like so many other players before me, but I never do. I don't have plans to stop at the moment.

 

I do however know of those kinds of people that do fall out with our codex and it does hurt to see it happen. Bols apparently has a rumor mill going that we should get a codex supplement for dark vengeance soon as well as an expanded campaign book for dark vengeance. So maybe things will get easier on us soon.

 

Note: this rumor goes on to state that you will require to dark talon for one or more formations.

[FarFromSam]

A lot of what has already been said. Especially what aura said. It is nice to be underestimated, and even better to win as the underdog.

 

Having said that, I've only played one other DA in a GT's in three years. And we had a good ol time.

[aura_enchanted]

A lot of what has already been said. Especially what aura said. It is nice to be underestimated, and even better to win as the underdog.

 

Having said that, I've only played one other DA in a GT's in three years. And we had a good ol time.

 

ive yet to play another dark angels tbh i want to i think itd be fun

[FarFromSam]

 

A lot of what has already been said. Especially what aura said. It is nice to be underestimated, and even better to win as the underdog.

 

Having said that, I've only played one other DA in a GT's in three years. And we had a good ol time.

 

ive yet to play another dark angels tbh i want to i think itd be fun

 

 

It is!  And it helped me take a fresh perspective on how to play!  Go find a DA player and declare he is fallen.  Surely he won't be able to resist the urge to prove you wrong.

[Komrk]

We are the best of the best of the best and that is all there is to it.

 

Literally the only thing that annoys me about DA is that :cuss

 

Edit:

 

It drives me up the walls. It's not the bad codex, douchey Primarch, or the vilified Fallen that drive me away. It's the players with the superiority complex. "Oh ha ha I beat you with my Dark Angels Ravenwing list, you must suck cause Dark Angels Codex sucks" Well no, Ravenwing armies (as with all bike armies) are extremely powerful. "Oh we are the First so we're automatically better than you because of an arbitrary number" "Oh you play Codex:Space Marines? You must only care about winning and not about fluff because if you use SM, you obviously don't care about fluff" oh my Jesus. It makes me hate the Dark Angels more and more which makes me goad them with Chaos and Catholic Priest jokes. It's a game. There is no we when you're talking about a made up army. Don't trash other people's armies because of an arbitrary number of all things, don't trash people for playing a chapter that's on Codex Space Marines. Just be a decent respectful person.

 

And before you say "oh well that's not all players" I know that. But they're the most vocal and they become the impression people have. I know its not everyone but God damn, it bugs me more than hating Ultramarines just to jump on the band wagon. And I'm not an Ultramarine player. They're probably my 5th favorite of the 18 legions and 3rd favorite loyalist chapter.

[Master Sheol]

I am italian and in italian forums too there is always the same stupid thing "DA = heretics and traitors" and it is really annoying to the point that usually this starts some flame wars...

Apart these stupid forum wars made by stupid guys who ignore the DA BG (and maybe they know only the words of the hated heretic Astelan) or just hate them (how can a guy hate a codex that is just cool on the outside but always so low powered in the last 15 years i don't know) most people i know tell me just one thing "how can you still play that crap that is DA???"

Everybody admits that DA models are with BA the coolest of the loyalists but all they watch the models and dont touch the codex cause they know it's crap...

 

The main problem is that true or false DA have the name of being the worst codex of 40K since 10/15 years now... This is furthermore reinforced by most DA players (including me) that after years of bad codices are never satysfied even when you receive something good (like BK that i like but i think they cost too much, DWK that i like but i think they cost too much and lack firepower or the last DA librarian formation that the first comment i had by a friend of mine was "yes it's good but 5 librarian cost too much")...

This is what people thinks about DA, cool models, nice background but distasteful primarch and too ambigous behaviour, crap overcosted rules, useless models, and so on...

 

DA are the real demonstration that the strategy of selling of GW by the coolness of models doesnt work... Poeple usually buy the DA models to use them for cool conversions for their other SM armies (like mixing them with CSM parts they make hot looking word bearers and so on) but dont play them unless they love the flusff and they are prone to overcome the continous "DA are heretics" other people say to them...

 

Sad but true...

 

P.S.: i don't have any hope that a new DA 7th edition codex will be any good cause i am sure it will be medrioce at best, but with cool models and fluff...

[FarFromSam]

Lol, I don't get the chaos trash talk as much as we are pediphile homos with children about....

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Ok gents. I had to clean up the thread. If you come here complain about DA players being tools, dont do it in a way that makes you look like one. If you are complaining about people that complain about DA players, watch the language.

This thread's life expectancy is going to be very very short if this keeps up downhill.

[Isiah]

When you guys play against new opponents, when you say you play Dark Angels, do you get a negative response? Do you think the 40K community sees the Dark Angels as cheaters, weak strategists, or do you think they wonder why that chapter?

No. No. No. Possibly. Answers in order to those questions :)

 

I certainly can't see why on earth we're seen as cheaters. That is just plain, well odd, at any level. So please explain that one to me.

 

Cheers

I

[Candleshoes]

Never any real animosity, more like what always follows any Eldar player with their slimey xenos cheating. There's always something daunting about fighting an all terminator army, or the all bike force - but people usually just take it in stride.

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't think anyone really hates Dark Angels, do they? They're just an easy target for jokes about dress-wearing traitors.

[Isiah]

... and I like that :yes:. Sticks and stones and all that.

 

Cheers

I

[Master Sindiferous]

I hear the issues of Dark Angels all the time, but then I drop Belial and DW on top of their HQ and they cry foul.   What really gets them is the Daka banner and a group of bikes with a Librarian to ruin their day.  So yes it costs more, but I enjoy the challenges of less units or higher cost and still end up winning my share of games and look cool doing it. (I admit, I still think of how I can drag Cipher in once in a while and think of pre-heresy or how he ends up scoring a few fallen for the Hunt when he shows up, but haven't done it yet.)

 

On the fallen side, there is a player locally who has fallen to the DA codex sucks and name calling after starting with a DV box set and adding DW.  He still uses his DW with a Grey Knights army.  I declare him a Heretic each time we play and hunt his HQ.  Always plays out to be a good time with wins and losses pretty even except when I get on a hunt for the fallen and determine his HQ to be my target.

 

Cheers to all my DA Brothers. 

[SvenONE]

Weak strategists and cheaters is something I hear far more about players of OTHER codices than out own.

 

DA players are quite honestly too few and far between to form a solid opinion on us.

 

The "DA is chaos" comment I see most often uttered by the individuals who normally garner eye rolls from everyone else. It's a tiresome low hanging fruit comment that I suspect lingers due to overall immaturity.

 

Interesting point by our fellow Brother on the fact that the DA codex is a good example of a codex that is successful/unsuccessful at being a codex that has good models but crummy rules

[Prot]

When you guys play against new opponents, when you say you play Dark Angels, do you get a negative response? Do you think the 40K community sees the Dark Angels as cheaters, weak strategists, or do you think they wonder why that chapter?

 

Dark Angels the army as cheaters? No. Weak strategists? Heck no.

 

The most negative reaction I get is they don't like the fluff. I'm not a huge fan of it either but I always play -my- DA as moving forward with the Imperium and not hung up on chasing a dude in black armour around the universe at the cost of the progression of the Imperium as a galactic milatary force. (My DA will never fire on a loyalist army to get someone who might have been a fallen angel.... in case you haven't heard, they always get away anyway.)

 

DA as the first, to me at least, are the most diverse of all the Astartes chapters. The first in so many ways, it only makes sense their force org is so flexible and they have access to things no one else does.

 

 

 

 

Mostly I'm just annoyed by the stupid "Dark Angels are really just chaos" or "Dark Angels belong in the chaos codex" comments.

 

I hate that too. Especially as the Horus Heresy novels have shown us just how many other 'loya' legions went partially heretic.

[Lord Kasalladalla]

I seem to get the strange look that says, why would you pick the Dark Angels? My personal complaint about the codex is the complete dependence on special characters to use DW or RW as troops (the true value of the chapter). My philosophy on any Astartes is you MUST use the uniqueness of the chapter; otherwise, why are you playing them? There is a lot of anti-character rules in tournies that debilitate the codex. There needs to be a RW or DW warlord trait choice for generic HQ to hold onto that power.

 

Here is a solid list of DA issues that the Emperor would never bestow upon his children of war:

 

Overpriced deathwing, overpriced fliers, vengeance land speeder is terrible, special characters that are overpriced and lack luster, DW/RW only unlocked by special characters (even though fluff suggest librarians and interrogator chaplains have lead the first and second companies), then they FAQ'd the DW sarges so they couldn't swap out their power sword and storm bolter, and they also FAQ'd the the power field generator to not work inside a vehicle, an absolutely in necessary nerf. Blade of Caliban (the weapon carried by champions) is unwieldy, meaning those characters are probably dead before they swing. Chapter tactic that gives stubborn but never let's you voluntarily fall back.

[Varizel]

I seem to get the strange look that says, why would you pick the Dark Angels? My personal complaint about the codex is the complete dependence on special characters to use DW or RW as troops (the true value of the chapter). My philosophy on any Astartes is you MUST use the uniqueness of the chapter; otherwise, why are you playing them? There is a lot of anti-character rules in tournies that debilitate the codex. There needs to be a RW or DW warlord trait choice for generic HQ to hold onto that power.

 

Here is a solid list of DA issues that the Emperor would never bestow upon his children of war:

 

Overpriced deathwing, overpriced fliers, vengeance land speeder is terrible, special characters that are overpriced and lack luster, DW/RW only unlocked by special characters (even though fluff suggest librarians and interrogator chaplains have lead the first and second companies), then they FAQ'd the DW sarges so they couldn't swap out their power sword and storm bolter, and they also FAQ'd the the power field generator to not work inside a vehicle, an absolutely in necessary nerf. Blade of Caliban (the weapon carried by champions) is unwieldy, meaning those characters are probably dead before they swing. Chapter tactic that gives stubborn but never let's you voluntarily fall back.

 

Well brother... those complaints has been aired quite alot. But let me address it.

 

For Deathwing, the price itself compared to normal terminators are actually not badly priced. For 4 pts, we got Fearless, Vengeful Strike, split fire and the ability to mix our weapons. Fairly priced for terminators i think... think of it as 1 pts per extras there. Problem is ... terminators in general are kinda overpriced nowadays all across the board besides chaos and GK ones. So not a problem unique to our codex.

 

For Land Speeder Vengeance... yeah i agree kinda... but it was spectacular on my last game where by itself it killed 2 meganob squads with a warboss in one of it, and mangled up some shoota boyz ( did like.... 11 wounds i think with its 3 Plasma cannon shots). But in general i agree with the sentiment

 

As for DW/RW unlocked by special character, you can use unbound. Nobody would complain i guess if you do that. You just lose Objective Secure, unless you REALLY need Objective Secure, going unbound route is not a bad choice. If you say well... i hate to/can't use unbound man.... that's just you or your meta. If your meta supported it,  as long as the unbound list is reasonable and enjoyable to both party, i don't see why you limit yourself to CAD. 

 

For DW Sarge, for the longest time, i hate that FAQ and i still think it is kinda stupid, but hey look at the bright side. With split fire and whatnot, u can shoot your stormbolter to some squad you want to charge, and your heavy weapon fired to the unit that needs to be blasted by that heavy weapon. It's not horribly bad if used that way, since it basically allows you to choose 2 targets for your charging. Your sarge is generally useless on challenge, but them's the break.

 

PFG has been FAQed that way for a long time... since everything else that involves area effect invul save works that way too for other army, The one that comes to mind is KFF for Orkz... the KFF only works for that trukk. My take on it is that it should at least give 4++ to the tank itself. GW is also not consistent though, that it changed PFG, but doesn't change the banners. 

 

Blade of Caliban has more problems than just wieldy. it's a Power Axe basically without the AP. It sucks beyond reckoning since you got the drawback of Axe without the benefit of it. The company champion itself ... taking out the BoC, is already borderline subpar, equipment wise for his WS stats. Combat Shield? Who the hell take that piece of crud. They should've went and make Storm Shield 4++ and that CS to 5++ .... like how it was in 4th, but changed to always work instead of the melee only back then. It would make CS not THAT shabby like it is now. 6++ for 5 pts and if i pay double i got 3++? Surely you jest GW, why you even have CS there? Thank the Emperor and the Lion that our champion does not share the same rule as the Marines one where they have to challenge or accept challenge. Hell, thank the Emperor and the Lion, it is optional to take that dude. 

 

For our chapter tactics, it was that way on 3rd. They just bring it back. Fluff wise it is what it is. Never give up, never surrender... only in death does duty end. If you want to get around it, combat squad your dudes so they die. Actually i liked this rule quite alot. And you will thank the ever awesomeness of stubborn once u got The Horror (Nids) or the Blood Angels one where it reduces your Ld by -2 and do a pinning check. Sides... our weapon is useless... the rule that lets you failed Ld on your whim, can only be done if you can't hurt the thing. Only AV13+ walkers charging you that lets you evoke this rule. Your krak still gives you chance to wound T8 or glance AV12, thus you can hurt the models, so no retreating anyway unless you fail your Ld. Thus the retreating drawback of our rule pretty much non existant with our basic gear giving us krak grenades. Out of all AV13+ walkers, the one that might give us problem would be Imperial Knight.... Ironclad, Furioso, Bjorn, and something i might forget, can be dealt with. If those Dreadnoughts got the charge, something went wrong already.

 

Well those above are my opinions on the matter. Might not be factually correct, but that's how i see it.

 

For the reaction of peeps... honestly one kid was called a cheater for repeated use of Lion's Roar way back when it wasn't FAQed yet. The kid was correct, but he pulled it off in such a manner, it kinda like.... dang. Nobody complains though sides that part... most of the question for DA players in my LFG is more like.. how come you don't play space marines, they are better. 

 

my 2 cents ...

[ZONKEY]

Why worry about what people think of the dark angels, in the coming years we will get a new codex that with have two supplement's one for ravenwing and one for death wing and we will get new toys, so why worry if you like the army and story thats all that matters :)

[Isiah]

[...]

 

For the reaction of peeps... honestly one kid was called a cheater for repeated use of Lion's Roar way back when it wasn't FAQed yet. The kid was correct, but he pulled it off in such a manner, it kinda like.... dang.

 

[...]

 

my 2 cents ...

And that for me is why 40K died. Stupid inbreds. You play to the rules you have in hand - however odd they might be. It's not the DA players' fault that Games Workshop can't write rules properly. Suck it up until corrected at some future point. Or go and play another game with undisputed rules - chess comes to mind <_<.

 

Cheers

I

[Epimetheus13]

PFG has been FAQed that way for a long time... since everything else that involves area effect invul save works that way too for other army, The one that comes to mind is KFF for Orkz... the KFF only works for that trukk. My take on it is that it should at least give 4++ to the tank itself. GW is also not consistent though, that it changed PFG, but doesn't change the banners.

Great post Varizel.

 

It bugs the heck out of me that, not only is our FAQ'd PFG inconsistent with the Ork Kustom Field and our banners, it's also inconsistent with the digital, interactive DA codex entry for the PFG - which allows the PFG to protect the *transport itself* - vs the print FAQ, which says the PFG only protects the models *embarked* upon the transport.