Khârn's Burtcherhord

[brother_contagion]

So here's another formation where you have Khârn + 4 CSM Squads + 4 Khorne Berserker Squads that all have Ademantium Will, can double their base attacks if they roll an 8 on the charge, and can get an extra attack on any 6 rolled in close-combat regardless of the weapon type (so extra attacks for Krak and Melta Bombs).

 

Unfortunately it's another huge formation like the Helguard, but pretty nice for the Khorne players out there.

[Adeptus-Alaska]

that sound absolutely evil.......i think I'm going to like it here.

[Warsmith Aznable]

920 points base. I'm not sure I see myself giving up my war engines and combat support to make eight assault oriented squads work. But I'm IV Legion kind of guy anyway. For the people already running committed WE lists, is this an exciting new way to field an army you're pretty much already playing?

[Aspiringchaoschampion]

I cant wait to face it time to spam blast masters

[Forté]

I cant wait to face it time to spam blast masters

Blastmaster and Vindincators. Khorne won't mind. He cares not where the blood comes from ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

Just imagine an army that relies on T4 3+ saves and assault charging towards a line of Rubriks... :D

[Chaeron]

For the people already running committed WE lists, is this an exciting new way to field an army you're pretty much already playing?

I think this is it- it's a direct reward for those who do play like that! In a 2k list, it has potential.

[Sheesh Mode]

It looks like a list for 3 Landraiders and three blob squads of Khorne Marines. Blood for the Blood God. 

[totgeboren]

It looks like a list for 3 Landraiders and three blob squads of Khorne Marines. Blood for the Blood God. 

 

Considering it's a formation you will have a huge army if you include 3 Land Raiders+2 troops+HQ. However, being battleforged means little for the army, as Khârn has a locked Warlord trait anyway, and objective secured isn't that big of a deal for an army with basically nothing that is good at holding ground, so you could just as well buy extra Land Raiders if you have the points.

 

On the other hand, Dreadclaws are dedicated transports for CSM and Chosen squads, so you could put your 4 CSM squads in Dreadclaws and the Berzerkers in Rhinos. Full speed ahead turn one and disembark, turn two assault with as many Berzerkers and the two CSM squads that arrived by Dreadclaw. Second turn the other two dreadclaws should start to arrive, and can go wherever they are needed. Or just go unbound and buy dreadclaws for everything.

 

It could actually work, though it's quite lacking in anti-tank, not to mention anti-air!

[Prot]

After playing the Helguard for a few games I have a few comments on this:

 

1. Do you guys include transports as part of the formation? We do here, and this has been hotly debated at times (not locally but I've read elsewhere). Our logic is that like a plasma gun, or melta bombs, the transport is simply a unit option. This is kind of important though, and as a side note I just wondered if you guys played it differently?

 

2. These massive formations MUST be valid in themselves because at this point value they simply can't just 'assist' you... they have to win you over or you're just rolling dice and dying. 

 

3. At this point value, whatever else you can add to the formation obviously really has to synergize with it. I made the mistake of using my allied attachment to my Helguard a separate 'entity' and realized at this point value it doesn't work like that.

 

4. Any formation this size without ObSec blows. Sorry but Maelstrom is the cat's meow and I've seen so many people underestimate ObSec. 

 

I have bought all these recent formations and to date, the smaller ones are best because they don't force you into thinking like Point 1 and 2 above. They CAN be their own thing. I still love the Helbrute formations. They aren't crazy good, but they validate a very mediocre unit in our codex.

 

I will tell you guys this much... if you don't play Dark Angels, these chaos ones are (believe it or not) FAR better than the new DA ones. I've tried one of them, and man they are so baaad it's like GW live in another world when they play this game. (Sorry but it's true.) 

 

Sometimes I wish so much I could write official formations, or rules sometimes. Just because some (not all) of this stuff seriously lacks creativity and bottom line effectiveness. Think about it this way.... ask yourself 'Why would I want to play this formation?' 

 

If the answer is, because it had the character I want! Then just play unbound and you won't be limited with the bad formations with poor rules. 

 

This isn't meant in any way to be a negative post. It's just a reflection based on my years in this hobby and the fact I've been buying up and testing most of the formations, from small games to apoc style games (got one coming up tomorrow!) and I'm trying to make these things work. I'd love to take a  real crack at writing them though.

 

P.S.

I realize in writing this it sounds worse than I meant. I played and built two large World Eater armies (you can see pieces of them in my gallery) and when I saw the new Khârn Novel AND the new formation I was giddy like prettiest school girl at the prom. Then I read the formation and got the same sinking feeling I did with the last 4 formations I bought.... I apologize for the bad vibes.

[Scribe]

920 points base. I'm not sure I see myself giving up my war engines and combat support to make eight assault oriented squads work. But I'm IV Legion kind of guy anyway. For the people already running committed WE lists, is this an exciting new way to field an army you're pretty much already playing?

 

Thats about the long and short of it.

 

I used to run (early 5th being my second build of my original 3.5 list?) a horde of berzerkers, its not so much new and exciting but a buff to a archtype that already exists casually.

 

I played around with it and at my normal points level its too restrictive, at 2K though, you could fit in a 2nd HQ, 2 min cultists and then whatever gap filling you want (IA13 units really).

[Sception]

It's a huge expensive formation that provides no help to these slow vulnerable infantry units when it comes to actually getting to melee, leaving you stuck relying on our existing poor melee delivery options, while also lacking anti-air, anti-armor, and objective secured troops, and leaving you with few points spare to make up the difference.

 

I like formations, but I just don't see this one working.

[brother_contagion]

It's the same with the Helguard formation, you play it at higher points like 2k+

 

We have relatively cheap Land Raiders, and it's still a good formation and something I'd like to try out if I had the models for it. lol The only way I'd play this is Unbound. You could put everyone in Dreadclaws, cheaper and guaranteed to get you a turn 2 charge even if it does get blown up (and how many people actually have ubiquitous Skyfire units that can deal with a turn 1 Drop Pod assault? Apart from Tau)!

 

You don't need to be so one-sided about it.

[Anon40k40k]

This formation sums up all my issues with GW and Chaos. They just can't make things FUN CHAOS! and competitive. There's no reason why this formation need to be 4 and 4. If it was 2 and 2 you'd see it a lot. Giving a good benefit to ok units doesn't make them good. Compare this to the expensive Blood Angel formations. Those give a good benefit to good units and will thus see use. The beer and pretzel gamers don't need GW sanctioned rules to do crazy stuff. The competitive gamers do.

[Lucien Eilam]

There's no reason why this formation need to be 4 and 4.

 

I imagine it's a reference to Khorne's sacred number, 8.

[Anon40k40k]

That's exactly my point. Chaos needs sacred numbers but gets no benefit from them

[*Furyou Miko]

This formation is the benefit from the sacred number, nothing more.

[Anon40k40k]

This formation is the benefit from the sacred number, nothing more.

But formation benefits should be proprotional to the "tax" for taking it not based off some number Rick Priestley thought of 25 years ago.

[Teetengee]

After playing the Helguard for a few games I have a few comments on this:

 

1. Do you guys include transports as part of the formation? We do here, and this has been hotly debated at times (not locally but I've read elsewhere). Our logic is that like a plasma gun, or melta bombs, the transport is simply a unit option. This is kind of important though, and as a side note I just wondered if you guys played it differently?

You can, check out the formation in the dark eldar book. It requires transports except for the archon, who may take one but is not forced, yet it doesn't mention the transports anywhere in the formation contents.

 

I am excited to try out this formation, mainly because it is Khârn and 4 csm units away from the list I already commonly run (which is relatively closer than most lists I imagine.) Adding in an allied detachment or cad to fix gaps seems plausible, especially since I will feel very naked without my juggerlord. I would also think running this formation out of the CS supplement seems to be the ideal choice as it would give free fear at very few restrictions.

 

Also, math for those of you deciding that rerolling successful charges using the icon in order to try to get the 8 bonus:

Chance of losing a successful charge to a reroll at X inches away:

2 or less: 0% 3: 2.78% 4: 8.33% 5: 16.67% 6: 27.78% 7: 41.67% 8: 58.33% 9: 72.22% 10: 8333% 11: 91.67% 12: 97.22%

Apply any modifiers to the above numbers.

Chance of actually getting the 8 is 13.89%, or 8.33% at -2 and 2.78% at -4.

[Sheesh Mode]

 

This formation is the benefit from the sacred number, nothing more.

But formation benefits should be proprotional to the "tax" for taking it not based off some number Rick Priestley thought of 25 years ago.

 

 

You mean like Adamantium will, extra attacks on an eight inch charge, or additional attacks for each roll of six to hit? 

[Scribe]

Yes, now stack those up with the points investment, and realize they are not balanced, or proportional.

 

Its ok, not every formation will knock it out of the park...

[Prot]

As some of you may know I tried the Helguard Formation a few times, and I hoped some of you would as well.

 

As far as I know, none of you did, or perhaps you just didn't report on it. Now I did a full batrep and gave my in game suggestions, but even though I was successful the interest level was like a '2 out of 10'.

 

Considering the in game effect of this one, I think the interest level is probably even lower.

 

I just played a mega battle with my Ultramarines and Dark angels. I had a Blood Angel player on my side and we discussed what he could bring to the game and he shows me his 3 Stormraven formation that can deep strike units in without scatter and they can all assault that turn, plus other bonuses AND the appropriate units are all objective secured! Insane.

 

I'm just not understanding why our formations are all so mediocre. I think only the DA might have it worse as they too got 2 Dataslates out of the Advent Calendar and they are a whole new class of fail. (I thought the librarius might be usable but I had a core mechanic wrong in it..)

[Kol Saresk]

Quick question, Objective Secured only goes to Troops right? Since this formation has eight Troops, doesn't that mean you're able to flood the board with Objective secured units?

[Warsmith Aznable]

Isn't Objective Secured a benefit of a Combined Arms detachment?

[Scribe]

Yes, unless its stated (and it isnt) this formation does not gain Objective Secured.