advice on BA deathstorm models

[Gumb012]

So I picked up my shield of baal deathstorm box set a few days ago as it seemed a perfect introductory set to learn how to play 40k and get the hang of it. I've spent the last few days reading through the supplement and rules book (far from finished though) and im very happy with my purchase, i got it for $160 NZD which works out to be a bargain for all that it came with.

 

Anyway to get to the point, I'm basically just unsure as to whether I should glue all my parts together when i assemble them in a couple days or not. I've spent the last few weeks looking into a lot of things to do with the game including the modelling side of it before and decided I'll be doing a lot of magnetizing as my army grows as it seems the best way to go in terms of flexibility with lists and what not, and I don't mind putting in the little extra effort for it. Now, however, I'm considering just gluing my models from the deathstorm set so I can start using them quicker and have less to worry about initially, and go about magnetizing things once I begin to buy my next sets of marines. So basically it comes down to this: is the deathstorm formation viable beyond just using it to learn the game, and how do you rate the individual units? If they're not particularly 'good' enough to use in a larger army in future then I'll hold off a bit and magnetize them so that i can interchange weaponry etc and "Raphen's Death Company" can simply be used as ordinary death company marines and "Cassor The Damned" can be a regular death company dreadnought etc. So, advice?

 

Note, I'm in this for the fun of it, so I don't mind if the deathstorm formation or units aren't like the ULTIMATE troops and what not, I'm not looking to build the best in the world tournament winning army, I just want a decent army that I can enjoy using and build to get larger so that in time as I get better I can give opponents a run for their money and not be stomped into the ground every game I have.

 

All advice appreciated :)

[Shaezus]

Welcome to the forum, welcome to the game and welcome to the Blood Angels :)

 

If it's fun you're after then you've made the right choice; whereas most of the other Imperial factions rely on ranged power to win, we BA have to get stuck in up close and personal where we can see the whites of their eyes! After all, where's the fun in sitting in a corner of the board and just shooting at stuff? When you win your games it will be through your bold and cunning use of the uniquely aggressive units available only to us. Victory will not always come easily, but this makes it all the sweeter for you will have truly earned it.

 

Anyway onto your army. The death company are - no exaggeration - arguably the most potent close combat unit in the game, point-for-point. The trick is getting them into assault, but learning this will be an ongoing joy for you. I haven't yet used magnetising so can't advise there but as a general benchmark you want at least one thunder hammer or power fist, and a power sword or power axe. Don't bother with pistol upgrades. Power swords are better now as you get an initiative bonus when charging (if you play with the Baal Strike Force detachment - see the codex), so your death company will strike first against other marine equivalents (MEQ) and ignore their armour.

 

If you haven't done so already, seek out your local gaming club. There will be people there who will give you games and help you learn the rules, and this way you can adjust your army according to what you are up against.

 

I'm in danger of rambling here so I'll let other brethren chip in, but for now yes the models in deathstorm are fine to play with but as you get the hang of thinga you will want to change a few things for sure. For example the DC dreadnought needs a transport if you want to use it aggressively. Drop pods are ideal, but some players like to put them in a stormraven.

 

The only real way to learn is through trial and error and finding your own groove. You'll need your wallet at hand too :D

[bigted]

Hi Gumbo

Welcome to Blood Angels! Firstly, for 40k advice, you've come to the right place. The B&C is (in my opinion) the best 40k forum on the internet . You said you have the deathstorm box, so I'm assuming you don't have any other models. To form a basic army, you will need at least 2 troop units. In our codex (which I assume you have, if not picking that up should be your first priority) we can take 2 different units in out troop slots, tactical marines and scouts. Tactical marines are tough and can take throw out a decent amount of anti infantry or anti armour firepower, depending on what special and heavy weapons you give them. They should be the core of your army. Scouts are not as tough, but if you equip them with sniper rifles and camo cloaks they can be a cheap unit that sits in the enemy backfield and picks off key targets, while being fairly protected against shooting due to high cover saves. Sorry if you already knew that, I just had to make sure you knew the basics before you dove into the hobby . As to the matter at hand, I think magnetising is a great idea! It really increases the versatility of your army, especially if you have a small collection. I really regret not magnetising all my models when I got them, as I have to have spare marines with all the different weapon options (although normally it's fine when I'm playing with friends who don't mind proxies.)

Good luck brother, and may the emperor protect you .

[Leonaides]

I'd say build these guys as in the deathstorm dataslates. The specific build of raphen's death company is a troops unit in any game, as is cassor the damned. Yes, the death company has a few too many upgrades for most peoples tastes, but if these're your first squads then forget that for now. When you buy/build more dc models you can still use them as part of a normal dc anyway. Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

[RedemptionNL]

I'm slowly starting my own Blood Angels force as well, after the purchase of the Deathstorm box to add to my Tyranids. I also own a Space Hulk set, so I already have plenty of cool BA specific tactical terminators, and my intention is to buy a box of the new Blood Angels assault terminators.

That way, I can give one of the terminators in the Deathstorm box the cyclone missile launcher to add to the heavy flamer and assault cannon terminators from Space Hulk to have all three heavy weapons. Then give the other 4 leftover lightning claws from the assault terminator kit, which makes a grand total of:

- 5 terminators with thunderhammer and stormshield (including the sergeant from Space Hulk) and 1 with a thunderhammer and the banner made from the assault terminator box

- 5 lightning claw terminators (including the one from Space Hulk)

- 10 tactical terminators, which have a sergeant with powersword and a chainfist, assault cannon, heavy flamer and cyclone missile launcher amongst them.

- 1 Terminator Librarian with force axe

- Captain Karlaen

All blinged out with BA iconography, instead of the boring stock tactical terminators in the Deathstorm box. Add that to the other models in there and it's a nice starting point for an army.

[Gumb012]

Thanks guys ! Glad I found this site, very helpful and welcoming. 

 

I'd say build these guys as in the deathstorm dataslates. The specific build of raphen's death company is a troops unit in any game, as is cassor the damned. Yes, the death company has a few too many upgrades for most peoples tastes, but if these're your first squads then forget that for now. When you buy/build more dc models you can still use them as part of a normal dc anyway. Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

 

I think I'll follow this advice, I'd like to just get stuck in with getting the hang of the game with the force im given in the set and start magnetizing when I build up my army further. And yeah I read about how Raphen's DC and Cassor count as troops units in any game, how would you rate them as far as using them for troops slots? I don't know a lot yet and haven't really planned my army further but I've seen some people express uncertainty about what to fill troop slots with due to not thinking too much of tacticals and being unsure about scouts, could Raphen's lot and Cassor be a good option to fill this roll? (im talking about once reaching the stage of increasing the size of my army beyond just the deathstorm force)

[Gumb012]

I'm slowly starting my own Blood Angels force as well, after the purchase of the Deathstorm box to add to my Tyranids. I also own a Space Hulk set, so I already have plenty of cool BA specific tactical terminators, and my intention is to buy a box of the new Blood Angels assault terminators.

That way, I can give one of the terminators in the Deathstorm box the cyclone missile launcher to add to the heavy flamer and assault cannon terminators from Space Hulk to have all three heavy weapons. Then give the other 4 leftover lightning claws from the assault terminator kit, which makes a grand total of:

- 5 terminators with thunderhammer and stormshield (including the sergeant from Space Hulk) and 1 with a thunderhammer and the banner made from the assault terminator box

- 5 lightning claw terminators (including the one from Space Hulk)

- 10 tactical terminators, which have a sergeant with powersword and a chainfist, assault cannon, heavy flamer and cyclone missile launcher amongst them.

- 1 Terminator Librarian with force axe

- Captain Karlaen

All blinged out with BA iconography, instead of the boring stock tactical terminators in the Deathstorm box. Add that to the other models in there and it's a nice starting point for an army.

That sounds cool ! I'm yet to think ahead on where I want to expand this force, I think I'll wait till I have a little more know-how (and till I get the codex which'll be asap) before I start considering my next purchases. Those Assault terminators do look enticing though don't they.

I'm with you on the wanting my terminators to have the BA bling that the other guys in the deathstorm set have, I was thinking of buying these FW BA terminator shoulder pads to achieve this http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space_Marine-Infantry-and-Accessories/BLOOD_ANGELS_TERMINATOR_SHOULDER_PADS.html

[RedemptionNL]

There's also rumours of an updated Blood Angels battle force called the Sanguinary Strike force coming out the 10th of January, with pre-orders up going up next weekend. I'm waiting with making any purchases until the contents of that box are known, as those sets usually have some nice discount.

[bigted]

Thanks guys ! Glad I found this site, very helpful and welcoming. 

 

I'd say build these guys as in the deathstorm dataslates. The specific build of raphen's death company is a troops unit in any game, as is cassor the damned. Yes, the death company has a few too many upgrades for most peoples tastes, but if these're your first squads then forget that for now. When you buy/build more dc models you can still use them as part of a normal dc anyway. Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

 

I think I'll follow this advice, I'd like to just get stuck in with getting the hang of the game with the force im given in the set and start magnetizing when I build up my army further. And yeah I read about how Raphen's DC and Cassor count as troops units in any game, how would you rate them as far as using them for troops slots? I don't know a lot yet and haven't really planned my army further but I've seen some people express uncertainty about what to fill troop slots with due to not thinking too much of tacticals and being unsure about scouts, could Raphen's lot and Cassor be a good option to fill this roll? (im talking about once reaching the stage of increasing the size of my army beyond just the deathstorm force)

Personally I like taking two 10 man tactical squads with flamer, heavy flamer and combi flamer in a drop pod. I use 3 5 man assault squads with 2 melta guns and an infernus pistol in drop pods as my fast attack squads. The assaults come down turn one and destroy any powerful vehicles or important transports, and turn two my tacticals pod down and burn any surviving infantry. I haven't got any experience with Cassor or Raphen's DC, as I think podded tacticals are way cooler. Also, Raphen's DC seems like it would be pretty vulnerable and expensive and probably get shot before it could do any damage. Death Company dreadnoughts (including Cassor) seem like a second rate option compared to furiso dreads, so I would only take Cassor if I really needed another dread and had no elite slots left. Scout squads are also viable troops, a 5 man squad with a missile launcher, sniper rifles and camo cloaks is a great unit for babysitting an objective. Really anything is viable, it just depends what you think is cool.

[Gumb012]

 

Thanks guys ! Glad I found this site, very helpful and welcoming. 

 

I'd say build these guys as in the deathstorm dataslates. The specific build of raphen's death company is a troops unit in any game, as is cassor the damned. Yes, the death company has a few too many upgrades for most peoples tastes, but if these're your first squads then forget that for now. When you buy/build more dc models you can still use them as part of a normal dc anyway. Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

 

I think I'll follow this advice, I'd like to just get stuck in with getting the hang of the game with the force im given in the set and start magnetizing when I build up my army further. And yeah I read about how Raphen's DC and Cassor count as troops units in any game, how would you rate them as far as using them for troops slots? I don't know a lot yet and haven't really planned my army further but I've seen some people express uncertainty about what to fill troop slots with due to not thinking too much of tacticals and being unsure about scouts, could Raphen's lot and Cassor be a good option to fill this roll? (im talking about once reaching the stage of increasing the size of my army beyond just the deathstorm force)

Personally I like taking two 10 man tactical squads with flamer, heavy flamer and combi flamer in a drop pod. I use 3 5 man assault squads with 2 melta guns and an infernus pistol in drop pods as my fast attack squads. The assaults come down turn one and destroy any powerful vehicles or important transports, and turn two my tacticals pod down and burn any surviving infantry. I haven't got any experience with Cassor or Raphen's DC, as I think podded tacticals are way cooler. Also, Raphen's DC seems like it would be pretty vulnerable and expensive and probably get shot before it could do any damage. Death Company dreadnoughts (including Cassor) seem like a second rate option compared to furiso dreads, so I would only take Cassor if I really needed another dread and had no elite slots left. Scout squads are also viable troops, a 5 man squad with a missile launcher, sniper rifles and camo cloaks is a great unit for babysitting an objective. Really anything is viable, it just depends what you think is cool.

 

Im getting my codex in a few days so I'll have a better judgment of points then but for now to give me some bearing on what is expensive for infantry units, what points total does one of the tacticals you just described come to? 

[bigted]

 

 

Thanks guys ! Glad I found this site, very helpful and welcoming. 

 

I'd say build these guys as in the deathstorm dataslates. The specific build of raphen's death company is a troops unit in any game, as is cassor the damned. Yes, the death company has a few too many upgrades for most peoples tastes, but if these're your first squads then forget that for now. When you buy/build more dc models you can still use them as part of a normal dc anyway. Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

 

I think I'll follow this advice, I'd like to just get stuck in with getting the hang of the game with the force im given in the set and start magnetizing when I build up my army further. And yeah I read about how Raphen's DC and Cassor count as troops units in any game, how would you rate them as far as using them for troops slots? I don't know a lot yet and haven't really planned my army further but I've seen some people express uncertainty about what to fill troop slots with due to not thinking too much of tacticals and being unsure about scouts, could Raphen's lot and Cassor be a good option to fill this roll? (im talking about once reaching the stage of increasing the size of my army beyond just the deathstorm force)

Personally I like taking two 10 man tactical squads with flamer, heavy flamer and combi flamer in a drop pod. I use 3 5 man assault squads with 2 melta guns and an infernus pistol in drop pods as my fast attack squads. The assaults come down turn one and destroy any powerful vehicles or important transports, and turn two my tacticals pod down and burn any surviving infantry. I haven't got any experience with Cassor or Raphen's DC, as I think podded tacticals are way cooler. Also, Raphen's DC seems like it would be pretty vulnerable and expensive and probably get shot before it could do any damage. Death Company dreadnoughts (including Cassor) seem like a second rate option compared to furiso dreads, so I would only take Cassor if I really needed another dread and had no elite slots left. Scout squads are also viable troops, a 5 man squad with a missile launcher, sniper rifles and camo cloaks is a great unit for babysitting an objective. Really anything is viable, it just depends what you think is cool.

 

Im getting my codex in a few days so I'll have a better judgment of points then but for now to give me some bearing on what is expensive for infantry units, what points total does one of the tacticals you just described come to? 

 

For 10 tacs in a pod with flamer, heavy flamer and combi flamer it's 190 pts. If you upgrade the sarge to veteran sarge (Which gives the sarge +1 leadership and attack) the squad costs 200.

[Quixus]

Get playing, worry about magnetising later. And welcome to the best!

I would magnetize the models, no matter whether you use them as described in deathstorm or differently. It takes only a couple of minutes to magnetize the arms, back/jump packs are even quicker in my experience. So with magnets not only do you have the option to switch load outs later, you can also paint the arms /back packs separately. The latter seems to be a question of taste though.

[tsijben]

So basically it comes down to this: is the deathstorm formation viable beyond just using it to learn the game, and how do you rate the individual units? If they're not particularly 'good' enough to use in a larger army in future then I'll hold off a bit and magnetize them so that i can interchange weaponry etc and "Raphen's Death Company" can simply be used as ordinary death company marines and "Cassor The Damned" can be a regular death company dreadnought etc. So, advice?

 

I really like Cassor.

His downside is that he is a bit more expensive and must use the overcosted Blood Talons (10 points for Shred on a S10 weapon?).

But hey, at least you can re-roll the 1's.

The upside however is amazing! He is a Troop-slot, which is great, and he is a Character!

He cannot only issue Challenges, but he also benefits from our Primaris Power, giving him 7 to 9 attacks at Initiative 6 to 8 and Fleet.

Give him one good charge and he will probably make his points back, just don't forget to put him in a Drop Pod.

 

Squad Alphaeus is.. well.. they are Terminators.

They might be nice if you fight against Tyranids, but that is a level of counter-listing I am uncomfortable with.

Perhaps it might be better to get some cheap additional bits from eBay and turn them into assault terminators.

 

Raphen's Death Company is too expensive when you start playing seriously.

I also do not get why they have Specialist Weapons with Bolt Pistols. Every BA-player knows that you pair those with Boltguns: You're not getting the additional attack anyway and they are Relentless.

But don't feel bad about assembling them as Raphen's DC, like nearly every other BA-player you will end up with 20+ Death Company and you will model these CC-weapons eventually. Later on you will just not put all of them in a single squad of 5 Marines.

 

Captain Karlaen is my least favourite. I can make a roughly identical Captain for 15 points less!

But do you want to know my biggest issue? I don't want a Terminator Captain with a Stormbolter, Thunderhammer and Digital Weapons.

I want my Captain to have Valour's Edge and a Storm Shield, combined with the Veritas Vitae for an additional Warlord Trait at the same price as Karlaen.

That is if I want a Terminator Captain at all, which 9 out of 10 times I don't want.

[bigted]

 

So basically it comes down to this: is the deathstorm formation viable beyond just using it to learn the game, and how do you rate the individual units? If they're not particularly 'good' enough to use in a larger army in future then I'll hold off a bit and magnetize them so that i can interchange weaponry etc and "Raphen's Death Company" can simply be used as ordinary death company marines and "Cassor The Damned" can be a regular death company dreadnought etc. So, advice?

 

I really like Cassor.

His downside is that he is a bit more expensive and must use the overcosted Blood Talons (10 points for Shred on a S10 weapon?).

But hey, at least you can re-roll the 1's.

The upside however is amazing! He is a Troop-slot, which is great, and he is a Character!

He cannot only issue Challenges, but he also benefits from our Primaris Power, giving him 7 to 9 attacks at Initiative 6 to 8 and Fleet.

Give him one good charge and he will probably make his points back, just don't forget to put him in a Drop Pod.

 

Squad Alphaeus is.. well.. they are Terminators.

They might be nice if you fight against Tyranids, but that is a level of counter-listing I am uncomfortable with.

Perhaps it might be better to get some cheap additional bits from eBay and turn them into assault terminators.

 

Raphen's Death Company is too expensive when you start playing seriously.

I also do not get why they have Specialist Weapons with Bolt Pistols. Every BA-player knows that you pair those with Boltguns: You're not getting the additional attack anyway and they are Relentless.

But don't feel bad about assembling them as Raphen's DC, like nearly every other BA-player you will end up with 20+ Death Company and you will model these CC-weapons eventually. Later on you will just not put all of them in a single squad of 5 Marines.

 

Captain Karlaen is my least favourite. I can make a roughly identical Captain for 15 points less!

But do you want to know my biggest issue? I don't want a Terminator Captain with a Stormbolter, Thunderhammer and Digital Weapons.

I want my Captain to have Valour's Edge and a Storm Shield, combined with the Veritas Vitae for an additional Warlord Trait at the same price as Karlaen.

That is if I want a Terminator Captain at all, which 9 out of 10 times I don't want.

 

The problem is, without a raven he probably will never make it into combat. He will be popped t1 if he footslogs and if he pods he will probably be blown up almost immediately.

[tsijben]

That's why people prefer 2+ Drop Pods.

He still has the Dreadnought-problem, which is an issue that many melee things have: They are too slow to walk and too fragile to stand their on their own.

Best thing might be to use the FW-Drop Pod to keep him safe and then charge on T2.

[Quixus]

You would have to either take SW allies for an FA drop pod or the Lucius pattern drop pod. The regular dedicated transport drop pod is not available to Cassor.

[RedemptionNL]

You would have to either take SW allies for an FA drop pod or the Lucius pattern drop pod. The regular dedicated transport drop pod is not available to Cassor.

 

Blood Angels can take drop pods as Fast Attack in their new codex as well.