3500pts. Imperial Fist Templar Army *FINAL UPDATE*

[gmaleron]

Hello everyone, for several months now I have been debating whether or not I should get into Horus Heresy. I have changed armies a couple of times but have now found the one I believe to be both my favorite in terms of fluff, look and the fact I could afford it due to the low model count. I am of course talking about putting together Templer themed Imperial Fists army that I hope to be both decently competitive and fun to play as well as being close to the fluff. This is my first time ever at this kind of list so any and all comments are appreciated, thanks for posting!

RITE OF WAR:

 

-Pride of the Legion

HQ:

-Sigismund

ELITE:

-x3 Apothecaries
*w/ Power Swords, Artificer Armor

 

-Legion Contemptor Dreadnought Talon

*w/ x1 Chainfist w/ inbuilt Plasma Blaster, x1 Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon w/ Inbuilt Plasma Blaster, havoc Launcher

-Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod

TROOPS:

-x8 Templar Brethren "Apothecary & Sigismund Here"
*w/ x1 Solarite Power Gauntlet, Legion Vexilla
-Landraider Phobos

*w/ Armored Ceramite

-x9 Templar Brethren "Apothecary Here"
*w/ x1 Solarite Power Gauntlet, Legion Vexilla
-Landraider Phobos
*w/ Armored Ceramite

-x9 Templar Brethren "Apothecary Here"
*w/ x1 Solarite Power Gauntlet, Legion Vexilla
-Landraider Phobos
*w/ Armored Ceramite, Dozer Blade

 

-Legion Veteran Tactical Squad

*w/ x2 Plasma Guns, Furious Charge

-Rhino
*w/ Heavy Bolter

 

-Legion Veteran Tactical Squad

*w/ x2 HeavPlasma Guns, Furious Charge

-Rhino

*w/ Heavy Bolter

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

-Whirlwind
*w/ Hyperios Air Defense Missiles, Pintle Mounted Twin Linked Bolter

 

-Whirlwind

*w/ Hyperios Air Defense Missiles, Pintle Mounted Twin Linked Bolter

 

LORD OF WAR:

 

-Cerastus knight Castigator

TOTAL ARMY: 3500 POINTS

MODEL COUNT:

-x50 Infantry

-x1 Walker
-x3 Heavy Vehicles

-x2 APCS
-x2 Artillery Tanks

-x1 Drop Pod
-x1 Lords Of War

 

Tactics:

 

-Templars with Sigismund will be inside Landraiders pushing up the field punishing the enemy with fire from their Lascannons and Heavy Bolters. The x2 Rhinos, depending on the mission, will either utilize the Landraiders as cover as they advance or hang back to secure objectives.

 

-Dreadnought is a fluffy choice and is going to be custom designed (aka kit bashed and green stuffed) to look like a "Contemptor Emperors Champion" with a Dreadknights sword and other stuff to give him the Knight look. He has the x2 Plasma Blasters and the Havoc Launcher to make him universal with his Chainfist. He will be arriving by Drop Pod to provide distraction and to assist my Templars as they close into or move into Close Combat.

 

-x2 Whirlwinds to provide air cover for my army, however this will be on a game to game basis. If my opponent does not have any air I will be running them as standard Whirlwinds. Will be using the Whirlwind Scorpius models because they look cool and so I can run the as Scorpius's if the need or want arises.

 

-x1 Knight Castigor, Acheron or Lancer. I will be add magnets and other bits and stuff to potentially run x1 Knight as all 3 variants if I choose to do so. Figured to fit my Templar theme a Knight Lord of War was required!

[Slips]

The big issue with this list is that its very much a case of all your Eggs in one basket. Sure, you have 1 Spartan and 2 LR Phobos but beyond that, you don't really have any target saturation.

 

If your opponent fielded Fast units (think Jetbikes or AirCav) or Deep Strikers, youd be in a tough spot since they'd easily be able to take out your Hyperios, Focus Fire the Archeron down quite quickly if they pump enough fire into it and they kite your 3 remaining vehicles quite easily.

 

Theres also the problem your list will having when dealing with Pride of the Legion Lists since your only AP2 or lower will come from : Dorn, Sigismund, Sol Gloves or Lascannons. So the main advantage of the Templars (being MEQ shredders) will be ineffective whereas Terminators can field decent amount of AP2 by comparison.

 

Another problem is that your shooting will pretty much exclusively come from your vehicles since bolt pistols aren't all that reliable and Dorns Salvo 3/5 Bolter ain't much on its own.

 

So, while it is a very nice and fluff list that I'm totally in support of, at 3.5k with such a low body count (I have 25 Terminators and 10 Templars at the same points level with 1 Spartan, 1 Achilles, 1 LR Phobos and 1 Sicarian) you're more likely to just get obliterated from the get go from the amounts of massed firepower that is able to be brought to bear against you at this points level.

 

To help round out the list, instead of using the Templar Brethren as the only means to Represent them, think about using other elite/specialist units.

 

Examples would be :

Tac Vets, obviously, as Shooty Inclined Templar.

Jetbikes

Destroyers(iffy but it can work)

Seekers

Terminators

etc.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I agree with Sideswipe here. Templars are not just Templars. After all, the near entirety of the Templars left with Sigismund post Heresy and had to be a capable fighting force. They had Terminator Armour (and Chosen Squads with Terminator Shields for Dorn are ace, if expensive. Fearless WS5 2+/3++ are a good defence against Red Butchers.) obviously, and ranged units would have been necessary.

 

Have you considered bringing the AEtos Dios? It has a Ranged Dweapon on a SH flyer (read Resilient As hell). Assault Transport, decent dakka, and so cheap comapred to other THawks.

 

You lack haywire as well. A Glaive if you don't have a Falchion or Thunderhawk is brilliant for taking out SH's. Failing that, Solar Auxilia Tempest Grenade Launchers are available in large numbers (3 gravguns and 8 launchers) . The best thing for AT in 30k is Haywire IMHO, and why I prefer Grav Cannon artillery to laser destroyer arrays.

 

Seekers could be elite Templar ranged units. Dropped in via Dreadclaw, but that hits your FA slots quite hard and doesn't allow more than one.

 

Terminators are the easiest, cheapest and most resilient access to AP2 (and other power weapons). If someone chooses not to play the Terminators game, that is wasted. Templars have the same problem - but lack the AP2 access AND ranged capabilities even if they do shift to Combat Shields. As a mech list, you can avoid the Terminators reasonably effectively.

 

In regards to the Knight, I prefer the castigator rather than the Acheron.

[gmaleron]

I appreciate the tips guys and the advice, I am brand new to Horus Heresy and still am trying to figure out how to best put together an army. The end goal is 3500 points including a Primarch so I could use any advice you have. In regard to what you have already said:

 

-How would I make the terminators chosen? Can't seem to find how to make the WS5

 

-Would I be better off running this as an Air Cav army instead of a mechanized list?

 

-Since I want to do a Templar theme would the pride of the Legion right of war be the best bet?

 

Also I am wanting to do more of a close combat themed army due to the fact that my other armies(Tau & IG) are both pretty shooty, any ideas how to design my army with close combat in mind? Thanks for the help!

[Slips]

This is going to be a quick and dirty post since im currently in a plane (again) and dont have my books with me.

 

Running mechanized is just fine imo. Since i doibt you could field aetos dios unless you buy a thinderhawk.

 

Pride of the legion would be the easiest way I found.

you can run a squad of 10 cataphractii in a spartan with either 2 plasma blaster or 2 heavy flamers. The auto cannons wouldnt be worth it. You then take 8 vigil pattern stormshields on the rest and just charge galore. Consider adding a Primus Medicae here for added toughness also with a storm shield.

 

Your templar and sigismund squad is good enough.

 

Use those two squads as your hammers. That means 2 Spartans running down the field filled with death unless you give the templar a nuncio-vox and teleport the terminators in.

 

Use the rest of the points to get anti-air and maybe some graviton rapiers for haywire.

 

Get some jetbikes or squads in a LR proteus and you would be good to go.

 

I dont think you can run onslaught with a row so that would mean only one LoW slot. Take a LR achilles, artillery batteries or predator squads to fill out the list and to make a good anvil units.

[gmaleron]

Thanks for the advice, I have changed the above list so please let me know what you think!

[Slips]

How many points would you save if you removed all the Plasma Pistols and Combat Shields from your Templar?

[gmaleron]

330 points is how much I would save.

[Slips]

Thats pretty much enough for 2 Contemptor-Mortis Dreads with AutoCannons or Kheres.

 

Might get more mileage out of those two than the combat shields and plasma pistols on the Templars.

[gmaleron]

Its an idea, wouldn't taking away the plasma and invulnerable save from my Templars hurt? Remember I am going for a CC themed army (as I have Tau and IG as my other armies) and wouldn't the Dreadnoughts be to slow?

[Slips]

If you take them as non-mortis (ie they dont have Skyfire/interceptor if they dont move) they instead have Fleet. So you could gear them as Contemptors with 2 DCCW with Heavy Flamers, Plasma Blasters or Graviton Guns in the hands.

 

And combat shields give a 6++ invuln (or is it 5?). Either way its rather low and won't help all that much especially when you consider that a CC Contemptor is likely to deal more damage than ever-so-slightly-tougher Templars. Or at the very least draw fire that would have instead killed your Templars either way.

 

Plasma pistols are also very expensive for what they do especially when they can kill off a templar with Gets Hot!

 

Though, with only 330 points, you can only fit 1 CC Contemptor in since they usually run at 200+ points each. If you do take one, you could spread out some combat shields within the squads or focus them all in the heavy hitter squad.

 

The only time I can see combat shields being more than worth it for their points is if you run "The Stone Gauntlet" RoW since you gain a TON of benefits for being equipped with shields such as T5 which means S9 and lower can't ID your Troops. Though that would mean having to take Breacher Squads as your Compulsory Troops.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Combat Shields are 5++ in CC. Makes them effectively Terminator-lite. They don't benefit from the boosted toughness though - that is boarding and storm shields only.

[Slips]

Well, thats what being literally on the other side of the globe from my books does.

 

Either way, consider dropping one templar squad in favor of a Terminator Squad since they'll have an easier time dealing with 2+ Saves (aka other terminators) than your Templar. Especially since you'll be wanting to throw them at MEQ/3+ armor saves or Weaker despite them having Sol Gloves. If anything get the Combat Shields for the Champions since they have 2 Wounds and you want to keep them alive as long as possible.

 

You DONT want Templar Brethren to face off against 2+ Armor Saves en Masse if you can help it because of their inflexible weapons option: The Power Sword. Which is why I don't recommend Plasma Pistols for them. The Archeotech Pistol is debatable but I would drop it too. Keep the squad simple and focused.

 

The Terminators can also be a more Flexible and points efficient option over a Third Squad of Templar since you can give the whole squad Teleportation Transponders for 15pts and give the Templar a Nuncio-Vox for a 6" No-Scatter Bubble. Thus saving you another 250+ points not spent on Transports that you can use to get more Heavy Firepower into the list in General. They can also grab Power Axes / Power Fists squad wide; The axes being free and the possibility of taking Vigil Pattern Storm Shields (get the FW Black Templar ones to tie them in) for 2+/3++ Give 1 in 5 a Plasma Blaster for 18" Assault 2 AP2 Shooting and you're golden.

 

You could also run them as 40k Hammernators too if you wanted. And since this is Pride of the Legion they're a Troops option.

 

I also just noticed that the Templars don't have Vexillas. Get them. Failing Morale with such a pricey unit would suck if they then get swept/feared/runoff/etc.

 

This post is scatterbrained to all hell due to constant back-and-forth with myself on what could/should be done to make the list gel better in my eyes.

 

I THINK it would look better as such:

 

LoW:

-Papa Dorn

 

HQ:

-Sigismund

-Primus Medicae; Terminator Armor, Vigil Pattern Storm Shield, Teleportation Transponder, Weapon of Choice (can take a Sol Glove if you're so inclinded)

 

Troops:

-Tac Vets. 10 Men, 2HB with Suspensor Webs, Sniper/Fearless USR, Rhino APC

-Tac Vets. 10 Men, 2HB with Suspensor Webs, Sniper/Fearless USR, Rhino APC

-Templar Squad Alpha. 6-8 Men, Champ with Sol Glove, 6/8 Combat Shields, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Land Raider Phobos DT (Insert Siggy, Apoth. 6 men if with Dorn)

-Templar Squad Beta. 9 Men, Champ with Sol Glove, 1-5 Combat Shields, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Land Raider Phobos DT (insert Apothecary Here)

-Terminator Squad. 10 Terminators, 2 Plasma Blasters, 8 Vigil Pattern Storm Shields. Depending on points : 10 Power Axes/Fists/Thunderhammers, Teleportation Trandponder (Attach Primus Medicae Here; use the Squad Sarge to tank Challenges - Squad of 2+/3++ with FNP 5+ is a tough nut to crack)

 

Elites:

-Apothecarion Detachment: 2 Apothecaries; Artificer Armor, Power Swords, Augury Scanners (a big screw you to Deepstrikers)

-Contemptor Dreadnought Talon: 1-2 Dreadnoughts Depending on points, 2 DCCW (or 1 DCCW + 1 Chain Fist) choice of Heavy Flamers, Graviton Guns or Plasma Blasters, 1 in each hand. Potential Maximum of 4 of any given weapon. Graviton Guns also have Haywire to screw over anything with Flare Shields and create Difficult+Dangerous Terrain. Great for Slowing down vehicles / units. Pricey Though.

 

Heavy Support:

-Anti-Air Whirlwind

-Anti-Air Whirlwind (if points permit, consider adding a Sicarian or Whirlwind Scorpius. Solid Choices for any list that isn't artillery or AirCav)

 

Edit: Dorn and the Theme your going for makes things rather hard for me :p since the former is a 385 points sink.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Just thought; Can't take Templars as troops either. Primarchs have to be Warlord, and Templars are Troops if Sigismund is Warlord only. Either drop Dorn (do it, unless taking Aetos Dios), or be stuck with nonscoring Templars.

[Slips]

Don't have the books to confirm but I though Sigismund made Templars Troops, just cuz. If thats the Case well then, even more reason to cut back on the # of Templar Squads since that Elites slot will be filled to the brim.

 

Unless you do as above and drop Dorn (he makes Terminators and Phalanx Warders troops. So with PoTL you're loosing ever so little of his Benefits).

 

That gives you 385 points to play around with Extra too for more Toys.

[gmaleron]

Thanks for the replies guys, to answer a few questions:

 

-Sigismund does not have to be the Warlord to make Templars Troops, it says he just as to be in the army.

 

-In all honesty the biggest reason I am taking Dorn is because everyone in my gaming group (there are a large # of us playing Horus Heresy) is taking the Primarch for their specific Legion so he is staying.

 

Now in regards to the list you pointed up I really do like what you have done, however I do have a few questions regarding it:

 

-Should the Primus Medicae really have the Teleportation Transponder if the Terminator Squad he is going to be attached to already has it?

 

-Wouldn't Dorn be a better fit with the Terminators due to them being tougher and the fact I wouldn't have to cut down on the number of Templars in my army?

 

-Instead of Dreadnoughts would more infantry be a better option?

 

Thanks for the replies guys you really are helping a new Horus Heresy player out!

[Slips]

For the Teleportation Transponder I slap one on the PM anyways since its only 15 points and a safeguard against potential Rules-Lawyering / Shenanigans.

Yeah, Dorn Might be a better fit with the Terminators at this point since they'll probably be the squad you send after your opponents Primarchs. Mind sharing which Primarchs you'll be up against? Dorn isn't the best CC Primarch but he does give his Squad Crusade and a bunch of other benefits. If you're going to be using Dorn + Terminators + Primus Medicae as a Primarch Hunting Unit, Spamming as many Thunder Hammers as you can would be a VERY good idea for Concussive.

Dreadnoughts over Infantry is your Call. With ~300-400 points you can do some cool things. For maintaining the Elite Templar Feel you're going for we'd have to skip over just adding 2 Tactical Blobs and instead go for units like Seekers, Destroyers or Jetbikes. Dreadnoughts are also, monetarily, the cheapest option

Granted the way I usually plan out any of the aforementioned three units they usually end up taking ~500 point chunks.

1.Seekers; 10 Men, 10 Combi-Weapons optional gear on the Sarge of Artificer Armor & Power Weapon. Melta bombs are a must, IIRC they can be taken squadwide. If you can Give them a Land Raider Proteus if not, a rhino. Depending on what you want to hunt go for Plasma or Flamer. Melta is a meh option in 30k but it can find some use.

2.Destroyers 10 men, 2 Missile Launchers with Suspensor Webs, Artificer Armor, Power Weapon and Phosphex Bombs on Sarge (2-3 preferably). If you want to keep them cheaper, Jump Packs for the whole Squad. If you want them more durable and have the points, Land Raider Proteus. Use as a Harassing unit since Rad missiles cause the squad hit to get -1 Toughness and as an Assault Tanking unit due to counter attack and their ML having the option of being Assault 1 due to the Suspensor Web. Phosphex also makes for great area denial in confined spaces.

3.Jetbikes. At least 6 but best if you can fit in 9 for 3 Special Weapons. I would Skip the Multi-Melta unless you know that they are bringing tanks without armored Ceramite. If not go for Culverins or Plasma Cannons. Take Squad Wide Melta Bombs if you can. Squad Sarge is optional.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Dorn needs to go with the Terminators with Shields if you are running him with the Stone Gauntlet RoW so that he gets majority T5. Failing that, don't pop him in a unit, just bubble wrap and run him on his own where he can make use of fleet etc.

 

Destroyers kinda suck Imho. The missiles reducing toughness only apply to models wounded iirc and with 2+ wound models (except Angrin, Loken, Pollux and Sevatar and they have lnvulnerables) having a 2+ save, it means they are mid range Ap3 bunnies. Might as well run Plasma bikes. They only have Rad missiles, so despite Assault 1, the blast means they can't overwatch.

 

Keep them as phospex delivery or Ablative wounds for a Moritat if that is your style. Bs6 moritats with Bolt Pistols keep up decent stream of shots.

[gmaleron]

Thanks guys again for all your advice and tips! I have put together what I believe to be (90% sure) my final draft for my Templar army! I decided to go with a pure 1st Company Templar feel with my list and added some fluffy elements (like the Dreadnought) to really give it the look. Let me know what you think and thanks for posting!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Can apothecaries go in Templar Squads? Thought they were limited to the squads listed under their Army List entry? Plus stated others, but I cannot remember if Templars allow it.

[Slips]

I'd imagine so because there must be a reason why I shoved a Primus Medicae into my 4k Lists Templar Squad.

[Leonite]

Templars are not mentioned under the list of units Apoths can join in the Red Books

[gmaleron]

At the same time there's nothing saying they can't join Templar squads either so I'm going to run it as this , I highly doubt they would exclude them from joining them.

[Leonite]

... thaaat's not how it works. Unless the unit specifically says that Apothecaries can join the squad, or the Apothecary squad entry says they can join them (which as we discussed, already isn't the cast, the Phalanx Warden Squad is though) then the Apothecaries cannot be in the unit

[Millicant]

Leonite is definitely right on this. There IS something saying an apothecary can't join a Templar squad. It's the unit entry with the list of units an apothecary can join.