What do we think of Ragnar this ed? Who uses him, cost, etc.

[temneb]

I've always been a fan of Ragnar, but I don't see his character being cost effective if you put him up agains Harold etc.

 

Are we better of representing him using CoF, ap 2 sword, runic armour, coming in 35 pts cheaper? With a 50% chance and reroll (75%?) of getting re roll one save, re roll all wounds or preferred enemy on warloard table.

 

Essentially we pay 35pts, for random ap2 on weapon, only 3+4+ with a re roll, one extra attack (Ragnar only) and +1 strength on charge with the unit. 1 re roll to hit in cc or re roll all in challenge.

 

Really it's only the furious charge that stands out to me and it doesn't really go far enough for 35 points.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Vash113]

A custom built version of Ragnar using either the core codex or the CoF supplement is generally going to be better than the special character. The requirement to declare and accept charges is an annoying handicap, especially for a character without Runic Armor. A custom built version can be better armored, cheaper and with a weapon just as good, if not perhaps a little better, than Ragnar's relic sword.

[Frater Cornelius]

The thing is that he is a melee character on foot. Meaning he needs a transport to function properly, bloating the cost.

 

A custom Ragnar on foot is cheaper, leaving more points elsewhere to support him, while he arrives via pod.

Alternatively, sit that custom Ragnar on a bike and have him ride with Swiftclaws ;)

 

Having said all that, he is not bad. In a casual setting he can work. Himself, 10-15 Bloodclaws in an assault transport of your choosing.

[skeletoro]

Better armoured? Sort of. Against AP 4+, until he fails a save (that turn) ragnar's armour save is better than a 2+ (1/9 chance of failing rather than 1/6). Against AP3, it's worse (1/4 rather than 1/6), while against AP2 it's better until he fails a save that turn (1/4 rather than 1/3). That's actually pretty good, I think.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Ragnar's been bad since the 3rd edition book and will probably be bad for the rest of time.  He's still a close combat character with a 3+ save, no Eternal Warrior, no way to reroll his assault distance, and is totally dependent on transport vehicles to move him around the board with any amount of alacrity.  He'd be overpriced at 150 points.  He's a joke at his actual cost.

[Skeld Ironthews]

I use him straight out of the book and have found him to be pretty good. He draws a lot of attention (helps that I have a converted model), so sometimes doesn't make it in but caused so much disruption to my opponents plans that it's worth it. When I do get him into combat he is an absolute blender.

I'm not a very competitive player but I've enjoyed using him every battle (8 or 9 so far).

[skeletoro]

I haven't ever really considered taking him, but let's not be too hard on the old chap. As I mentioned before, rerolling the first failed save each turn is actually quite a big deal and makes him very tough (compared against a 2+/3++ model) vs non ID attacks of any AP other than 3 and with Lo,S that actually makes him pretty useful as a tank vs ccw attacks in an assault in a champions of fenris detachment (where a pack leader could accept challenges om his behalf if needed). He also has a respectable damage output, and some buffing utility. I'm not sure the price is right but assuming you wanted a close combat character on foot, which I generally don't, he'd be a bargain at 150.

[CatSmasher]

I feel like krom does a very similar job for 55 pts less IMO

[temneb]

I haven't ever really considered taking him, but let's not be too hard on the old chap. As I mentioned before, rerolling the first failed save each turn is actually quite a big deal and makes him very tough (compared against a 2+/3++ model) vs non ID attacks of any AP other than 3 and with Lo,S that actually makes him pretty useful as a tank vs ccw attacks in an assault in a champions of fenris detachment (where a pack leader could accept challenges om his behalf if needed). He also has a respectable damage output, and some buffing utility. I'm not sure the price is right but assuming you wanted a close combat character on foot, which I generally don't, he'd be a bargain at 150.

I'm not sure he can have the pack leader accept challenges. He has a rule that states he must issue and accept all challenges, which makes the reroll less important.

[Daddywarcrimes]

Keeping characters out of challenges is a pretty simple exercise in model placement, especially when you can bury a character in a unit of 10 models on 40mm bases, or 15 models on 32mm bases.

[temneb]

Not really, the challenge happens regardless of model placement, as I understand it. Ragnar has to issue or accept a challenge if possible, how do you keep him out?

[Lord Blackwood]

Keeping characters out of challenges is a pretty simple exercise in model placement, especially when you can bury a character in a unit of 10 models on 40mm bases, or 15 models on 32mm bases.

what? 

 

you challenge before you start piling in or anything 

[Daddywarcrimes]

You issue and accept challenges based on where models are located immediately after the assault move is made.  Since you can't move through models, it's fairly easy to wall off ICs from being within 2" of a model in Base contact, which means they're unengaged and not eligible to accept the challenge.  Then when their initiative comes up, they step 3" into engagement range and take their swings.

[Lord Blackwood]

You issue and accept challenges based on where models are located immediately after the assault move is made.  Since you can't move through models, it's fairly easy to wall off ICs from being within 2" of a model in Base contact, which means they're unengaged and not eligible to accept the challenge.  Then when their initiative comes up, they step 3" into engagement range and take their swings.

this seems incorrect 

 

you dont have to be engaged to challenge 

 

To issue a challenge, nominate a character in one of your units locked in the combat to be the challenger.

 

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 8752-8753). 

 

Then if you look at the assault rules in the little diagram in the rulebook 

 

All of the Guardians in base contact with a Space Marine, as well as the ones within 2” of a Guardian that is in base contact with a Space Marine, are engaged and can therefore attack. The remaining Guardians (circled in red) cannot attack, although they are locked in combat (pg 47).

 

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 6862-6864). 

 

Which means Ragnar even if he wouldn't be able to pile in and attack off the normal charge move would be challengeable  

[Valerian]

I loved him in 5e when he was much more expensive. He lost a lot of his power, with change to a much weaker Warriorborn and loss of his attack buffs to his unit and others. However, with those nerfs his cost dropped 65 points (IIRC), so that's fair. You can do better with a DIY, probably, but he's still worth considering IF his design fits your army list and style.

[temneb]

You can do better with a DIY, probably, but he's still worth considering IF his design fits your army list and style.

This is the issue, I'm trying to make a list around him. I'll post it up in the list forum to get some advice.

 

Cheers guys.

[skeletoro]

Ragnar must issue and accept, but so must the pack leaders (in a CoF detachment). So you have a choice.

[temneb]

Ragnar must issue and accept, but so must the pack leaders (in a CoF detachment). So you have a choice.

I'd never considered that. Thanks for the explanation.