How do you play Daemons?

[Frater Cornelius]

I literally have no clue, so maybe some of you can help me out? I am looking to possibly attempt to consider thinking about starting Daemons... maybe. (that is a sentence)

I enjoy low model-count and unit synergy. So a bunch of MCs are certainly up there.

However, I am having trouble imagining 3-4 T5 MCs being able to bring down an army, so there must be more to that.

I am also having a hard time seeing the relevance of the entire Troops section apart from being objective-holding chaff. I mean, no transport, no armour. Just chaff.

Screamerstar is something I can get behind, having faced it a few times. But even on tournaments I rarely see Daemons.

So yeah, what I like is unit synergy, low model-count and an aggressive approach. Preferably something that involved throwing big hairy things and less big and less hairy things and watch the massacre ensue.

Any feedback appreciated

[Uprising]

Well please answer these question

1. What the army goal?  Is this a fluff army?  A competitive army?  A causal Army?

2. Whats your favorite lore of the Army?  Do you want  mono god, or multiple god?

3. Do you plan on giving the force ally CSM or R&H? 

4. What your budget? 

5. Can you convert?  Is this an artist army?(CD the sky the limit, and excellent for conversions)

 

About the Troops, Bloodletters are terrible(I have 110 of them and can't get them to work), Plague bearers got nerf(but can hold somewhat with herald), horrors are warp charges generators(best choice, get 2 squads), and deamonette are great for summoning and use for chaff. 

 

Scream star is excellent and require two heralds to be one of the best death star unit in the game.  Finally with the heralds you can use them for bloodthrister summing, keeprers are decent, and Unclean one are unkillable but must be deepstrike aggressively.  Fate wearers is a great character.  MC spam is good and Daemonic prince are useful tool box. 

 

If you like aggressive, CD support by R&H fire support will be perfect. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Well please answer these question

1. What the army goal? Is this a fluff army? A competitive army? A causal Army?

2. Whats your favorite lore of the Army? Do you want mono god, or multiple god?

3. Do you plan on giving the force ally CSM or R&H?

4. What your budget?

5. Can you convert? Is this an artist army?(CD the sky the limit, and excellent for conversions)

About the Troops, Bloodletters are terrible(I have 110 of them and can't get them to work), Plague bearers got nerf(but can hold somewhat with herald), horrors are warp charges generators(best choice, get 2 squads), and deamonette are great for summoning and use for chaff.

Scream star is excellent and require two heralds to be one of the best death star unit in the game. Finally with the heralds you can use them for bloodthrister summing, keeprers are decent, and Unclean one are unkillable but must be deepstrike aggressively. Fate wearers is a great character. MC spam is good and Daemonic prince are useful tool box.

If you like aggressive, CD support by R&H fire support will be perfect.

1) I am a tournament player, so the ultimate goal will be a competitive army. There is always the option of having a few extra models to scale back to friendly.

2) Disregard that part. If I decide to go for it, it will be a very unique and downright insane project.

3) If it benefits the force, certainly. However, I am not a big fan of R&H because I dislike chaff and hordes. But I am not opposed to warmachines or heavily armoured dudes. I like dudes in heavy armour. Very metal \m/

4) Enough

5) See answer two. It would be a very extensive conversion project. Basically it will not be Daemons at all, just using the rules.

MC spam looks appealing to me, when it comes to visuals, especially since HQ is my favourite slot and I like my some big-ass HQs.

However, I fail to see how this army wins games apart from summoning enough dudes to sit on objectives and win by points rather than smashing them into a screaming pulp (my preferred way of dealing with opponents, on the table anyway.. sometimes IRL as well ).

[McGibs]

I use primarily use the crappy troop choices as teleport beacons for bigger meaner things. With an icon and instrument, you can get pretty safe landings for big things like soul grinders, and some reserve insurance.

One of the prime strengths of daemons is that they are fast as all hell, probably second only to eldar. Flying MCs, scouting flesh hounds, screamers, and anything with slaanesh can really book it around the table. Combine that with deepstriking anything, and the whole army is extremely flexible in terms of table control. You need to use it, because a lot of stuff can be pretty fragile.

 

I find that hammer and anvil units work very well for daemons. There's a lot of damage output, but they can crumple pretty quick. Things like flesh hounds are fantastic for pinning down units for long periods of time, while you get harder hitting hammer units like daemon princes into position. Hide them for a turn or two until they can jump in for the kill.

Heavy walkers like soul grinders or blood slaughters are a good alternative to "big smashy things" that arent MCs, and are some of the best assault walkers in the game. I'm a big fan of dropping three AV13 walkers directly in the opponents face off on an icon.

[Kilofix]

Ok, I'll try to comment on all the 3 core pieces of a melee Daemon army:

 

1. Flying Daemon Princes.

 

Hard to kill because they have 3+/5++ and Jink (even in Hover and even when Charging) on top of it.

Nurgle DPs then also have Shrouded for 2+ Jink.

And, Jink doesn't affect their main source of damage which is Close Combat.

At least 6 S6 AP2 WS9 I8 attacks on Charge is nothing to sneeze at.

Anything without Fearless or ATSKNF will be Swept.

Then, on top of that you have Daemonic Rewards that can give it Fleshbane, Armorbane, IWND, Instant Death, more Wounds, Rez, etc.

Then you can pile Psychic powers that can include Biomancy, Telepathy, etc.

 

At the end of the day, you end up with a Unit that's hard to kill, can tie down opposing Units and that cannot be Ignored.

 

(Btw you can model these as giant Knights of some sort)

 

At that point, you hit them with your other damage dealers like:

 

 

 

2. Daemonettes, and Seekers (with their Heralds):

 

With Daemonettes, they are cheap so you can have huge numbers of I5 A2 WS5 Rending, with a Herald that can give reroll to Hit on every round and an AP2 weapon. Daemonettes also have Fleet and +3" to their run and a 5++ always. Even on foot they can manage a Turn 2 Charge. Oh and they have Fear.

 

Dark Eldar Wyches wish they could be Daemonettes who are still cheaper than the former.

 

Seekers have 12" move and have another Attack on top of the above.

 

You also have other options like Bloodletters that all have AP3 and are also comparatively cheap.

 

Then if you need some additional Heavy Support you have:

 

 

3. Soul Grinder

 

As an AV13 Walker, you can't kill it with Krak Grenades, and even with a S8 Power Fist, they're tough to kill with 4HP and a 5++.

 

They also have 4 or 5 (if you give it a Sword) attacks base, and 6 on Charge.

 

They come equipped with a 3 shot Autocannon with selective Skyfire on demand and can equip an S8 AP3 Large Blast or an S6 AP4 Torrent. The Forge World Plague Hulk variant has a S6 AP3 Template instead which will melt Marines.

[Kilofix]

Now if you want a more 'shooty' Daemon army then your talking about Psychic primarily, so you'll need:

 

 

4. Horrors

 

Which are primarily to generate Warp Charges. 10 Horrors give 1 Charge, 11 give 2, 16 give 3.

 

They have ok shooting with 2D6 S5 shots for 1 Charge or 3D6 for 2 Charges and 4D6 for 3 Charges, and they can also use Malefic Daemonology to Summon.

 

But their real utility is to provide Charges to Psychic DPs and Heralds that can cast all sorts of other stuff from a Nova version of Psychic Scream to Poisoned AP2 Large Blast Plague Wind.

 

Other than that, you have 2 other units that have some unique shooting abilities:

 

 

5. Skull Cannons:

 

That fire an S8 AP5 Large Blast that Ignores Cover. Good for killing blobs of small Nids or Guards or Orks.

 

And you also have:

 

 

6. Flamers of Tzeentch:

 

Which are Jump Infantry with Template S4 AP4.

 

But the Exalted / Burning Chariot version of them has either;

Heavy D3 S9 AP2 or Torrent S5 AP3.

[Kilofix]

Then apart from the above, you have other Units for other more specific uses:

 

 

7. Nurgle Troops like Plague Bearers:

 

That consist of cheap Obj. Sec., T4, Shrouded FnP (with Herald) to hold Objectives.

 

 

8. Plague Drones:

 

That are Jet Pack Cavalry with 3/4 Attacks that can be equipped with 3+ Poison (Rot Proboscis) and Instant Death (Balesword on leader) to kill MCs.

 

 

9. Screamers:

 

That are Jetbike packs that can use a special S5 AP2 Armorbane melee Attack or a D3 S4 attack if they Turbo Boost over a Unit.

[Kilofix]

And lastly you have yet other HQs with yet other special applications like:

 

10. Fateweaver:

 

That gives a reroll of 1 die per Turn.

 

 

11. Karanak:

 

That forces an opponent to Perils on Doubles when casting any Psychic, when he's close by.

 

 

12. The Masque:

 

That can totally cripple the melee or shooting of 1 close by Unit per Turn.

 

 

13. Skarbrand:

 

WS10 I10 A6 S6 AP2 W5 3+/5++ with Fleshbane and Armorbane and Rage.

 

 

14. Great Unclean Ones:

 

T7 S6 MC that can take Psychic 3 and Biomancy

 

 

15. Fiends of Slaanesh:

 

That cause -5I to Units they Charge for Shenanigans

 

 

16. Beasts of Nurgle:

 

That can Counter Charge with Slime Trail

 

 

18. Exalted Seeker Chariots:

 

That can hit with 4D6 Rending HoW attacks

 

 

....and probably a bunch of other Units I've forgotten to mention.

[Castellan Cato]

Great summary Kilo.

 

Only thing I have to add is that the "transport" for daemons is deep strike.  Whether its summoning, portal glyph spawning, or normal reserves, the majority of your detachment will be entering downfield.  Throwing icons on fast units like plague drones or casting cursed earth from daemonology lets you drop in with little to no fear of scatter.

[Frater Cornelius]

Good advice, guys. Thanks ;9

[TheDarkOne]

Overall I think that what you've got in this thread is a good place to start, what I will add is that there is one character Demon Prince that hasn't been mentioned, and in my mind outshines most other things in the codex for his points....

 

Be'Lakor!

 

and, well, he isn't actually in the codex, so there...

 

For 50 points more than Fateweaver, you get an eternal warrior demon prince (demons actually lack eternal warrior), with S7 armorbane and fleshbane attacks, Shrouded and who knows all of telepathy. if an opponnent fails an morale check, you get d3 additional warp charge next turn. his warlord trait is situationally useful giving -1 ld to enemies taking fear checks (fateweaver's is better).

 

the key thing here is that he's a flying monsterous creature with shrouded (2+ cover save when he jinks), and he knows all of telepathy, so you will always have invisibility, and shrouding avaialble. 

 

I have a hard time building lists without him now...

 

Also, on the topic of plague drones, they can be really badass in a 9 man deathstar squad. thats 27 S5 wounds, and instant death from the sargent with the balesword.

 

I've even seen people adding a walking herald into the squad, and stringing the bugs back as the mass moves foward, to give them better poisoned, and FNP. 

 

guy won best general witht hat unit and 2 9 man screamer squads with a herald each... brutal...

 

As a competitive player myself i have a hard time loving demons, as they can suffer to bad random rolls, with the warp storm and random gifts.

 

the trick is to minimize your reliance on random rolls, and try to prepare for the turns when luck turns against you.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that while psychic shenangans can be fun, shooting is still powerful, and demons lack good shooting phase options. soul grinder and burning chariots are basically it. the khorne cannon is fun, but AP5 on its blast? no thanks...

 

Allies can fill those gaps, but i find once i start taking allies, i'm sacrificing too much from the core demons themselves....

 

Good luck with your project, and enjoy Demons!

 

[miteyheroes]

Fateweaver seems like he's good at reducing the levels of randomness? Re-rolling the Warp chart, that D6 re-roll each term, and so on.

[TheDarkOne]

Yes, Fateweaver comes with what i would consider the best warlord trait there is.

My favourite abuse of warlord traits, and powers for a flying circus team would be fateweaver as Daemons HQ, A great unclean one, a nurgle prince and belakor allied in from chaos space marines with 10 cultists, and 2x 11 horrors. if points allow a helldrake, yay!

low model count, big nasties:

Warlod: Fateweaver

HQ: Great Unclean One, Mastery Level 2, Exalted Reward, Greater Reward

Troop: 11 Horrors

Troop: 11 Horrors

Troop: 4 Nurglings

Troop: 4 Nurglings

Troop: 3 Nurglings

Heavy: Nurgle Daemon Prince, Wings, Armor, 2x Greater Reward, Lesser Reward

Allied Chaos Space Marines:

HQ: Be'Lakor

Troop: 10 Cultists

Fast: Helldrake, Baleflamer

Total 1843

Now you have the best of both worlds, Fateweaver's randomness reducing Warlord Trait, and Belakor's nasty shadowmagic! The Great Unclean One can deep strike aggressivley with biomancy, or stay back and spawn more daemons with summoning, in this instance I gave the GUO the exalted reward for the grimoire, but thats a matter of taste, you can mess around with who has what rewards between him and the Daemon Princes. The GUO's shrouded so he'll be hard to kill. The Daemon Prince is also shrouded, and can have 3 rolls on Biomancy to get Iron Arm. Be'lakor is a beast. and you have a helldrake. 4 flying models, and 1 big fatass monster deepstriking if you like.

then some troops.

start the horrors on the board, and roll on daemonology for them, maybe they'llbecome a greater daemon! whee!

That'll give you 16 warp charge to start the game with, not bad, not too insane that people will flip the table on you...

Hold the cultists in reserve, unless you get sacrifice on daemonology, you'll love pulling wounds off these guys to make heralds, its just so fun too!

Deepstrike the nurglings, who score now (so good).

Smash face!

Maybe not the most optimized and competitive list, but it'll punch some people in the face! just look out for them Grey Knight bastards, the'll give you a headace...