sparti67 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Hi Everyone, I would like some C+C on a list I have started for Iron Hands. Please let me know where you think it is weak or needs some help. HQ Iron Father 5 Gorgon Terminators honor guard Elites 2 Rapier Graviton Guns Contemptor Mortis Talon (1)x2 Kheress Assault Canons (2) Heavy Conversion Beamer/Multi-Melta Troops 10 Tactical Squad (Land Raider Phobos Dedicated Transport) 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) 5 Recon Squad (Sniper Rifles) Heavy Support Sicaran Sicaran Venator Predator Executioner What upgrades would you recommend to kit out the tacticals and would you include a fast attack choice? (I do have bikes that could proxy as outriders). However I will be using the Gorgon right of war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I'm not an Iron Hands player but I can tell you: Contemptor Mortis dreads cannot go into a Dreadnought Talon. One Mortis = One Elites Slot. Conversion Beamer + Multi-Melta on the same dread seems like a VERY weird choice to me. One is only good at extreme range and hits like a wet noodle when the other one is effective: Close(ish) Range. And with a conversion beamer, you're likely to just park the dread somewhere and never move him again due to firing calibration. Unless you're using the Armored Spearhead Rite of War (AFAIK), Land Raiders can never be a Dedicated Transport for Tactical Marines. If you want to give it to your Tac Marines anyways, it'll cost a heavy support slot. Speaking of which, a Single predator doesn't pose much of a threat on its own. If you drop the Land Raider for a Rhino on the Tac Marines, consider adding 2 more Preds to the Squadron. Upgrades wise, ALWAYS take a Vexilla if its an option. Though not always necessary, giving your Tac Sarges Artificer armor and/or a Power Weapon (usually an Axe or Fist) is a good enough idea if you can spare it. The 5 recon marines don't really fit the list, imo. They're just...there. Consider Seekers with Combi-Weapons instead. More versatility that way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Slipstreams I was told go with two sicarans instead of a predator squadron. I thought the predator squadron (two executioners was a good idea). As far as the dread you mentioned, would you get rid of the conversion beamer or melta? Seeker squad sounds great, but I heard they were a bit pricey? Would you drop a tac squad for a seeker squad or drop something else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just a quick point, Mortis dreads cannot take a heavy conversion Beamer at all, and both weapons must be the same. Multi meltas are heavy hitting and cheap, but the range is terrible. If you are using them to take out flyers or light transports, go with auto cannon. If you want them to be scary as hell, take a pair of lascannon. Throw in a Cyclone missile launcher for fun if you have the points. Plus, if you are taking a forge father anyway, have you considered a castallax battle automata maniple? With dark fire cannons, three monstrous creatures become a serious threat to the opponent, and in my limited play history have out performed terminators almost every time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Thanks Spiritwalker. I have a Mechanicum army and may just do that, or use Mechanicum as allies. Didn't know that about the dreadnaught. What do think about a predator squadron? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 As a rule of thumb, i distrust squadroned vehicles under the best of circumstances. In low points games, it is usually unneccesary, and quite dangerous. After all, imobalize one and you imobalize them all, as if you leave one behind it is automatically destroyed. If, however, you want something to stand in the backfield and drop pie plates, then either barebones preds with autocannon and heavy bolters are a good choice for killing infantry, or if you want to kill tanks/drop pie plates, consider taking medusas. 36" range is still a good threat range, and dropping 2 to 3 s10 ap2 large blasts is a good way to clear and area. Whatever the case, expect a big comcentration of heavy weapons or tanks to draw a lot of enermy fire. Accept that more often than not it wont earn its points back in kills and move on. Additional: if you take medusas, consider swapping your forge father for a siege breaker. As this will allow you to take phosphex shells, which are frankly the most deadly attlefield control weapon in 30k, if you ask me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I meant to say. Been reading on the wording of the cortex controller. It says that you may include battle automata maniples as heavy support choices. Nowhere does it say which maniples that refers to, including the faq. So don't consider yourself bound to just thallax or castallax. A thanatar with paragon of metal is just, frankly, deadly. And theres not a lot out there that can hurt it without serious effort Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thats great because I have two Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3903965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Out of interest, how are you equiping the iron father? And are you taking him mainly to take the gorgons, as your elites are full? If not, have you considered taking casterman orth and putting him in the sicarian or the venator? Adding tank hunters and bs5 to an already stelar tank is a popular move, and frees up quite a few points that could be swapped and changed. While the head of the gorgon row is very attractive, im not so sure your list is best suited for it. Also, dont forget that you only need one compulsary troops with the row. So you could drop the seekers, and swap out two tac squads for support squads or similar. Eapecially considering that head of the gorgon support squads can take graviton guns for a steal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3904151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molokai Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Spiritwalker, I cant see where it allows only one troop selection with head of the gorgon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3904220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiritwalker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Youre quite right. Have been at work all morning and only just been able to check my books. Dont know where that came from. Think i might have been looking at the onslaught force org and just mixed the two up Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3904309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Teeth Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I really think it'd help us a lot if you listed things with points totals for units, or at least the army. And stated more clearly before the list what Force Org Chart or Rite of War you'll be using. I'll leave others to address the list, but thought I ought to mention that the following is totally wrong in several ways (Sorry, Spiritwalker): I meant to say. Been reading on the wording of the cortex controller. It says that you may include battle automata maniples as heavy support choices. Nowhere does it say which maniples that refers to, including the faq. So don't consider yourself bound to just thallax or castallax. A thanatar with paragon of metal is just, frankly, deadly. And theres not a lot out there that can hurt it without serious effort The most recent version of the Cortex Controller (LACAL book), which I'm sure is not much different than any other printing states, "If at least one model in a Space Marine Legion is equipped with a Cortex Controller, then either a single Castellax Class Battle-automata or a single Thallax Cohort Augment upgrades may be taken as a Heavy Support option for the force.". No Thanatar, unfortunately! I thought you might be thinking of the Head of the Gorgon Rite of War, but that states, "Legio Cybernetica Battle-automata Maniples may be included as Elites choices within the army...". In this instance, you could take Vorax Class Battle-automata, or Castellax, but still NOT Thanatar's as they are 'Siege-automata', not 'Battle-automata'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3904356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 I was using the head of the gorgon as the rite of war. I do like the outflank rule for tanks. I think it solves the problem of having no fast attacks. I may drop the Dreads for a ten man squad of Gorgons in a land raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3904498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Small point, but Gorgons can't be used as an HQ Honour Guard, they're only ever an elites slot.EDIT: That and an Iron Father with no upgrades is... Well, crap, to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3916398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Consider using regular Terminators instead of Gorgons. Also, Whirlwind Scorpius is a good heavy choice. A Predator Exec. squadron is good for larger games, when you lack heavy slots. Heavy Conversion Beamers look and (seemingly) work better on Preds, and for Iron Hands, just for the sake of looking really cool, I'd be considering getting two of those. Otherwise the mentioned Medusas are a great choice (without the phosphex upgrade, so skip the Siege Breaker). 2 Mortis Dreads - one with Kheres, the other one with Lascannons would also look really nice together, but not as a Talon, of course. I'd also swap Graviton Rapiers for Laser Destroyers (or leave them home altogether if you're interested in the new Castellax + Darkfire model). Recons don't fit in this list in my opinion, and also, don't go with Seekers. Get more regular Marines instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3918421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Consider using regular Terminators instead of Gorgons. What is this madness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3918457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloroutofspace Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Consider using regular Terminators instead of Gorgons. What is this madness. It's Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-3918554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassangel Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Can the Domitar be taken as Elites for Iron Hands? It is a "battle-automata", is it not? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4316925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 If its a Generic "Battle-Automata" may be taken, sure. But in some circumstances, the types of automata that are allowed to be taken is pretty specific. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4316927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memento Of Prospero Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Thread necro much? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4317272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trydragon Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Ok lets do a little bit of a break down of your list then and give you some suggestions on what i do with it. :D HQ Iron Father -- Naked he not very good I put him in Termy armour and give him a Paragon blade and Digi Lasers 5 Gorgon Terminators honor guard -- Ok first off Gorgons cant he Honor Guard / Command squad I move them too the Elites section (remeber useing the Age of darkness FoC u get 4 Ellites) Elites 2 Rapier Graviton Guns -- Good and Fluffy I approve Contemptor Mortis Talon -- Sorry dont come in a talon :( (1)x2 Kheress Assault Canons -- I love this Dread (2) Heavy Conversion Beamer/Multi-Melta -- Sorry again but this cant be done on a Mortis i suggest Dual Lascannons Troops 10 Tactical Squad (Land Raider Phobos Dedicated Transport) -- Not sure i give the Tacticals a Landrader i go 3rd Rhino 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) -- no conplants here 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) -- 5 Recon Squad (Sniper Rifles) -- Not a Fan of them TBH I use the points else ware. Heavy Support -- bit of a mess i go Duel Venator there Awesome BTW. Sicaran Sicaran Venator Predator Executioner As for upgrades, I go combi-weapon on your Sarge's also Vexilla is also a good item too have on your troops keep them from running away. Fast Attack lot i usally go for a Graviton and Multi-Melta Equipped LandSpeeder Squadren or Helios missiles Armed Turrets. Also outflanking Spartens and Magna-Melta Preds are fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4317282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Thanks for the C+C. I have changed my build quite a bit. HQ Iron Father (Terminator Armor, Digi lasers and paragon blade) Orth (In a Sicaran) Elites Contempt Mortis with 2 kheres assault cannons Contempt with chain fist and conversion beamer Contempt with Kheres and chain fist Troops 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) Heavy Support Sicaran Sicaran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4318817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Where is your Iron Father going? As it stands he looks to be doing a whole lot of nothing being a Solo CC character who has to get across the Board on Foot. Drop the Chain Fist from the Conversion Beamer Dread. Hes not going to be going out of his way to punch Tanks or AV since he'll be camping the backfield for S10 Ap1 shots. Unless forced to have it, drop the 3rd Tac Squad and use the points to give your Iron Father a Ride and Bodyguards. Otherwise dont even bother sinking points into him if he wont be doing his CC beatstick job all that efficiently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4318820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparti67 Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 HQ Iron Father (Terminator Armor, Digi lasers and paragon blade) (Spartan Assault Tank) Orth (In a Sicaran) Elites Contempt Mortis with 2 kheres assault cannons 10 Gorgons (Spartan Assault Tank) Contempt with Kheres and chain fist Troops 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) 10 Tactical Squad (Rhino Dedicated Transport) Heavy Support Leviathan Dreadnaught Grav Flux Bombard and storm cannon. Sicaran Sicaran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4325493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Grav flux bombard/storm cannon seems like an odd build on your leviathan, since those two weapons excel at hitting different targets. Stormshard is great vs medium vehicles and anything with power armor, while the grav bombard is better for taking out terminators or anything in cover. Plus the close combat weapons on the leviathan I think are too good to pass up on, you should keep a claw or drill. So I'd drop one ranged weapon, either will do really, though I prefer the bombard, and take a siege or drill instead. Also do you have all the full upgrades on the spartan? You really should take a flare shield, dozer blades and armored ceramite at least, and an auxiliary drive and frag assault launchers are really useful as well given you have terminators in there. Other than that, I think your list is great. All that heavy armor backed up by a whole bunch of dreadnoughts sounds like a lot of fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301149-start-of-iron-hands-30k-list/#findComment-4325581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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