Looking to start Ravenwing, against all odds! :D

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey guys,

 

so, despite hearing nothing but negative things about Dark Angels, despite being told a hundred times no avoid this codex, despite being laughed at by some fellow tournament players for trying out Dark Angels builds and despite me being a competitive player myself... I want to start Dark Angels.

 

I simply could not resist it. I love the style and flair of the army, especially Ravenwing. I love Paladins. I just do. But less the sort of 'I believe is God' one, but rather a Crusader with a purpose. That heavy armour, unbreakable will, yet behind the cold surface, there is a good heart. While it may not apply to the actual DA fluff, it is the looks that remind me of that.

 

In addition, I am a speed freak. If it does not move 12" or is arriving by pod, it is not going to get into my list.

 

Now I am not here to argue competitiveness and stuff. I have had worse lists to deal with and scraped a win against a cheese mongering mouth-breather. It is the player, not the list.

I also dislike White Scars. They lack the juicy stuff like RWK, Darkshround and DW.

 

Right, now that that is out of the way, let's get to the questions at hand.

 

How to start? I am definitely looking at Sammael and Ravenwing Knight.

1) Will I be playing the Command Squad or the Knight in the FA section? Or both?

2) Troops, will I be going for two full unit including Land Speeder to combat squad to have extreme capping power? Or Am I looking to get the minimum?

3) Will I be needing Greenwing or Deathwing support? DWK look tasty and having a bit of early deep striking pressure to distract isn't always bad.

4) Are allies needed? Something like Grav Bikers or a tanky Chapter Master? Maybe Thunderwolf Cavalry as my main hammer? The Champions of Fenris supplement can get me a kickass HQ and a unit of TWC with a mere 20 points tax.

5) Anything else I need to consider?

 

And finally, I want to voice a concern. The one thing stopping me from getting into this is the current 7ed style of codex writing. The omission of specialist Troops. I really want to go Ravenwing, but getting some Tactical as mandatory Troops in the times to come isn't what I want. I want a Tacs free list.

Do you think I should be careful with list building now? Or just go moneyswapyolo and get me my juicy Ravenwing.

 

Thanks for any input. I am so looking forward to this :D

[Freman Bloodglaive]

If you ever need to take Tactical squads (I'm fairly sure you won't) it won't be that hard to buy a box and paint two five man squads.

 

Command squads should always be your place for Black Knights until you run out of HQs to buy them for. Five men, grenade launcher, apothecary. I'd model the Champion even though he sucks at I1, if Blood Angels are the pattern eventually he'll be compulsory. One guy with the banner of course.

 

For fluffiness I think an Interrogator Chaplain on bike makes a good second choice, but a Librarian is probably more use.

 

I'd say minimum sized squads with multi-melta attack bike are the way to go. There is so much firepower these days that six men last no longer than three. Land Speeders in squadrons are a better choice methinks.

 

Dark Shroud to boost your cover saves is a good choice. Other than that the Ravenwing special skimmers/flyers rather suck.

 

If you want anti-air the best option in my opinion is the Stormraven/Storm Talon formation. You won't get it in the Dark Angels list.

 

While a tooled up White Scars or Iron Hands Chapter Master on bike is great for smashing face, I'd prefer to keep the list pure Ravenwing. Plus he's points that deduct from your number of bikes. Black Knights are some of the nastiest units in the game so they can act as hammer units. Rad grenade to drop toughness 4 to toughness 3 and you can instant death with their plasma talons.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I did not intend to run a full 6 man bike unit with attack bike. I was thinking to buy 6 bikes, attack bike and Land Speeder (for obj.sec. fast skimmer) and combat squad them. Have one unit of 4 bikes and 2 specials, one unit with attack bike and 3 ablative wounds and the speeder. Take two of those to get 6 obj.sec. damn fast units, while Knights make up your main hammer with HQ in there.

 

I was thinking about getting Sammael, bike Libby, full Command Squad with banner, two full units of bikes to split up as mentioned above and my Sicaran Battle Tank as a start. A very fast army with great dakka.

I will boost my numbers with SW allies by means of Thunderlord and TWC (with two Servitors as a tax, Champions of Fenris style) to have a melee hammer there as well that synergizes well with the Knight Grenades (either one of those).

 

Does that sound like a plan? Also, what banner do you take on CS, FnP, RW or Dakka?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Ravenwing do not combat squad in that way. They have six bikes, who can split into two squads of three, and an attack bike which is always separate from the other bikes, and a land speeder, which is always separate too.

 

Taking a six man squad and splitting it means either one special in each unit, which isn't enough, or two in one and none in the other. I prefer the three with two specials (and a combi-weapon that matches the squad weapon) and the attack bike that rolls off by itself.

 

For Ravenwing the dakka banner is pretty much mandatory. The FnP banner can be used for a more plasma/melee army, where you take the maximum number of Black Knights and charge them into combat, relying on the banner to help them stay alive in the fight.

[Frater Cornelius]

I see.

 

Since Knights are that awesome, should I go for two commands? Sammael and Int.Chap. (to unlock further relic tanks, I am thinking of running 2-3 Sicaran Battle Tanks to de-mech opponents faster so that RW can eat the content) in a command squad each? Or better stick all ICs into that one?

[Syphid]

I find the Darktalon works pretty well against low Iinitiative armies like Necrons, Tau, and IG.  You have to be wary of the anti-air and blacksun filters, though.

[Frater Cornelius]

I actually want to take a Dark Talon, no matter how point inefficient. I like the model and the Rift Cannon is pretty nifty when assaulting seemingly superior melee units.

 

This is going to great and pretty unusual, because I usually aim for top efficiency, especially on tournaments. That is going to be a real test of skill ;)

[Isiah]

Best of luck with the RW. It's probably the most competitive 'wing' build you can pick - and fun too.

 

Cheers

I

[Frater Cornelius]

Thanks, bud Back in 6th, when I bought my first army (all of 5th was with a borrowed army), I wanted Ravenwing, but I did not have the funds for it. I was simply enthralled by the looks.

Now I am building an custom dragon riding HQ and I have 14 regular bikers and some speeders and a Sicaran at home.

Today I bought the Dark Vengeance DA Xpac to have RWK bits, DWK and a Dark Talon and Attack Bikes.

The last question that remains is this:
While I want to keep that awesome look of theirs (enhanced with a little feral touches to have that sort of Norn-like nordic Knights), I am going to play the RW as counts-as Space Wolves.
Hence I wanted to give the RWK something more interesting than bikes.
I have narrowed down the choice to Empire Demigryhps or the good old Thunderwolves. Both have their merits and I honestly can not decide

White Lions are also an option. However, I am allergic to cats, so that is a big downer :D

[Isiah]

Now I'm lost. You're playing RW as Space Wolves :huh: ?

[Frater Cornelius]

No offense to any DA player or anything. I am just a Space Wolf and always will be. However, the current SW codex is a bit dull and the aesthetics a bit too feral for my taste. My way to improve that to get the DA rules in, which I enjoy considerably more, and improve the SW looks considerably by having those awesome RW elements in them. It is still going to be an almost pure RW army in all but names.

I already have the fluff for my lost company and all I need now is a suitable force.

Besides, it would be a bit hard to justify dragon riding and all those other things in a Dark Angels force

For reference, this is the look I am going for in the end:

http://i.imgur.com/gKIGF6d.jpg

Hence why I was considering a somewhat more flashy and furry ride for the Knights

[SnakeChisler]

If your a Space wolf player then set the DA up as an Ally

 

Best points wise is Librarian Bike PFG

Ravenwing Command with Champion Apothecary 5 man

Scout squad

 

Use them as an ally and see how you get on expand from there

 

Additional units as in bikes is 6 man 2 special weapons 1 Attack Bike with MM + Land speeder Typhoon put BOD on command squad for lots of bolter fire

 

Past that your getting into a DA only Force, I often run with 2 scout squads then full bike squads, for comps Sam comes out of the box but the config is different there in 3 man 2 melta AB with MM * 3 maybe 4 no typhoons 1 maybe 2 command squads + ally oh and a Whirlwind (specially for Pathfinders)

[Space Truckin]

And to think... I just read this whole thread thinking to myself wow - it's nice to read about someone genuinely excited to play using the DA codex for a change.

Then the guy comes out and says he's some kind of a Space Wolf.

Sheesh...the nerve of some people eh?

[Frater Cornelius]

And to think... I just read this whole thread thinking to myself wow - it's nice to read about someone genuinely excited to play using the DA codex for a change.

Then the guy comes out and says he's some kind of a Space Wolf.

Sheesh...the nerve of some people eh?

And to think... I was almost excited to join up with this community.

I am excited to play Ravenwing. And no, allies were never the point of that thread. I am here to get advice on a pure Ravenwing force. I looked through the codex and made a list that I like and I would be happy to play them as my main force. I am saying this after having played every single army except Orks, DE and Nids.

But fine, if you are really going to be that way because I prefer the fluff of another Chapter, I'll be going then.

[Isiah]

No I just think your posts are confusing.

 

A while back you said you were intending to run your RW as Space Wolves. Now you're telling us you intend to run them as RW proper using DA rules. Have I got that right or have I had too much Christmas sherry :huh:

 

I can assure you that no one in the DA section would purposely cause you any offence. Even a Space Wolf player is welcome :yes:.

 

So welcome to the Rock.

 

Cheers

I

[Frater Cornelius]

Cheers, bud. I must've written something real confusing then. To clarify, I am using the DA book to run a full RW army with some Forgeworld. The SW part only comes in when it comes to the fluff and some of the visuals (like the mounts of RWK), but they have no influence on the rules ;)

 

Right now I own my entire Troops section (12 bikes, 2 attack bikes, 2 speeders), a Dark Talon, Sammael and a Sicaran. Once I settle on a mount type, I will have a Command Squad up and running as well. Further expansion will be a second HQ (either Libby or Int.Chap. if I intend to run more than 1 relic tank from FW) to unlock a second Command Squad and possibly 1-2 more speeders. Beyond that, I am stuck, but I guess it should be enough for 1.5k points to test them and decide how to work my way up to 2k, which is my usual amount of points when building an army.

[Space Truckin]

 

But fine, if you are really going to be that way because I prefer the fluff of another Chapter, I'll be going then.

 

 

No need to go. 

Just my attempt at a little tongue in cheek humor considering the shared history of the 2 chapters.

[Frater Cornelius]

But fine, if you are really going to be that way because I prefer the fluff of another Chapter, I'll be going then.

No need to go.

Just my attempt at a little tongue in cheek humor considering the shared history of the 2 chapters.

Very well, I'll rest my axe... or now

But yeah, I was half expecting to see a comment along those lines Glad that it was only one

Calculations put be right at 1.5k points with my current force, actually.

Take a look:

HQ

Sammael

Librarian

- ML1, Axe, Bike, Auspex

RW Command Squad

- 2 regular guys, 1 guy with grenade launcher, 1 apothecary, 1 guy with banner (probably the bolter banner)

Troops

6 RW Bikes

- 2 Meltas

+ Trike with Multimelta

+ LS with HB, Typhoon

6 RW Bikes

- 2 Meltas

+ Trike with Multimelta

+ LS with HB, Typhoon

Fast Attack

Dark Talon

Heavy Support

Sicaran Battle Tank

- Dozer Blade, Legacy: Schizm of Mars

1497 points

Basically there is plenty of scoring troops if needed (or just two blobs if kill points are an issue) and CS as the main hammer of the list.

Sicaran helps with Jinkers and DT makes assault a pleasurable experience.

[SnakeChisler]

Nice base Ravenwing list

 

I always pack a PFG on the librarian coz I play against loads of smeggy ignores cover people (TAU)

 

Think I've mentioned this elsewhere but there a bit pricey what the Ravenwing can do though is focus their entire firepower on one part of the battlefield (12" move bolter banner etc..) so you have to go with the fact your quite often gonna win with just a few models left and Sam late game will have to go off glory hogging on his own, as well as a his fancy sword he has a jetbike (turbo 24") and can be used to jump onto buildings (Skilled rider, jet bike ) which pulls opponents down so they have to engage the rest of the squad. Nice one from GW making vertical coherency 6".

[Frater Cornelius]

Nice base Ravenwing list

 

I always pack a PFG on the librarian coz I play against loads of smeggy ignores cover people (TAU)

 

Think I've mentioned this elsewhere but there a bit pricey what the Ravenwing can do though is focus their entire firepower on one part of the battlefield (12" move bolter banner etc..) so you have to go with the fact your quite often gonna win with just a few models left and Sam late game will have to go off glory hogging on his own, as well as a his fancy sword he has a jetbike (turbo 24") and can be used to jump onto buildings (Skilled rider, jet bike ) which pulls opponents down so they have to engage the rest of the squad. Nice one from GW making vertical coherency 6".

 

7ed rules do not mention any movement restriction of Bikes and Cavalry when it comes to upper floors. If you can place the model, bikes are capable of ascending ;)

[marvmoogy]

Well....Immer has made me feel welcome over in the Space Wolves Forum, so I will extend the same courtesy over here (despite being called a "dress wearer" ;-) ).

 

First things first - I find that Ravenwing are NOT easy to play.  That being said, when they are played well, they are an awesome sight to behold.  9 times out of 10 you will be outnumbered in a big way and that makes it even more hilarious when you win!

 

Despite the two chapters historical disagreements, they do work very well on the field of battle together.  Dark Angels provide an excellent gunline and the Wolves are awesome up close.  Yes yes, I know we have our own hardy CC units, but the Wolves are growing on me ;-)

[Frater Cornelius]

Well....Immer has made me feel welcome over in the Space Wolves Forum, so I will extend the same courtesy over here (despite being called a "dress wearer" ;-) ).

First things first - I find that Ravenwing are NOT easy to play. That being said, when they are played well, they are an awesome sight to behold. 9 times out of 10 you will be outnumbered in a big way and that makes it even more hilarious when you win!

Despite the two chapters historical disagreements, they do work very well on the field of battle together. Dark Angels provide an excellent gunline and the Wolves are awesome up close. Yes yes, I know we have our own hardy CC units, but the Wolves are growing on me ;-)

I love being outnumbered. When my model-count is below 25 models, then I am happy

I actually find Ravenwing Knight superb up close. They are basically TWC. Both cost 40 points per model, both have S5 Rending, both move 12", both have HoW, both have T5 and 3+. Where TWC has more melee prowess with 5A base (3A RWK) and has access to the entire melee armoury and sport 2W, RWK have the speed with Turbo-Boost, Hit and Run, and they have the ranged capabilities with Plasma Talons.

There's a reason I will put RWK on Thunderwolves Lightly armoured Thunderwolves to show the mobility. They are big hunting hounds as opposed to warhound ;)

[Freman Bloodglaive]

What is the virtue of being outnumbered?

 

Not having to paint so many models.

 

I just looked at my painting table and realised that I have had models sitting there naked for almost 12 months now.

 

Sheesh.

[twopounder]

Ravenwing is extremely powerful and flexible. Your biggest problem is going to be enemy flyers, especially the dreaded hellchicken. You can pack enough melta weapon on bikes to deal with armor. I'd advise putting in some AA units if you're going to ally anything, or pick up a firehawk or two (or convert, considering the price tag). 

 

However, don't think you can play them like space wolves. Ravenwing are about hit and run. You have to skirt the enemy and engage only when the odds are greatly in your favor. 3 - 6 bikes don't last long in close combat, even against relatively poor troops. You just don't get enough attacks. Your focus should be on intimidation and seizing ground at the last minute.

[ValourousHeart]

Freman,

 

The virtue of being outnumbered is that it typically means that you have better units than your opponent.

 

Compair 20 guardsmen to 5 deamon princes. Sure the guardsmen outnumber the deamon princes, but not nearly enough to save them.

 

Where small elite armies generally struggle is vs armies that bring more threats than the elite army can deal with at one time.

 

That is where RW excels... They are a small elite army, that can spread its firepower out over a large number of targets at once, or can focus to deal with tougher threats.