Frater Cornelius Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Ravenwing is extremely powerful and flexible. Your biggest problem is going to be enemy flyers, especially the dreaded hellchicken. You can pack enough melta weapon on bikes to deal with armor. I'd advise putting in some AA units if you're going to ally anything, or pick up a firehawk or two (or convert, considering the price tag). However, don't think you can play them like space wolves. Ravenwing are about hit and run. You have to skirt the enemy and engage only when the odds are greatly in your favor. 3 - 6 bikes don't last long in close combat, even against relatively poor troops. You just don't get enough attacks. Your focus should be on intimidation and seizing ground at the last minute. You have little knowledge of how I play SW. Despite the common opinions that SW are a CC army, I only ever enter CC with my one unit of TWC. The rest is fire support and capping. Much like my current RW plans. It centers around the Command Squad Knights and their support. As for AA.. nah, not needed. If I am really facing something scary in the air, I have enough speed to reach his deployment zone in T1-2. At that point he either hovers and dies or flies over me. Aside from the Heldrake, no flyer in the game is even remotely threatening enough to even warrant a second look. And if there is one, Sicaran and RWK should be more than enough to send him packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Freman, The virtue of being outnumbered is that it typically means that you have better units than your opponent. Compair 20 guardsmen to 5 deamon princes. Sure the guardsmen outnumber the deamon princes, but not nearly enough to save them. Where small elite armies generally struggle is vs armies that bring more threats than the elite army can deal with at one time. That is where RW excels... They are a small elite army, that can spread its firepower out over a large number of targets at once, or can focus to deal with tougher threats. Can you really compare 20 Guardsmen to 5 Daemon princes? That's about 100 points to 1000. Give me 1000 points of Guard and I'll happily have a crack at those Daemon Princes. I take your point about more expensive units being better, but as we know from the Tactical to Terminator comparisons in 40k being more expensive simply means your army dies faster. Against most basic weapons Ravenwing are about twice as durable as Tactical marines, but they also cost nearly twice as much. Staying at a distance, pitting your entire army against a fragment of the opponent's and destroying him piece by piece is the way to go. Fortunately, as you say, Ravenwing have the mobility to pull it off. Deathwing, sadly, don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Same is not true for all units though. Bikes are actually pretty efficient. 2+ T4 is pretty much the same defense as 3+ T5 against small arms fire, but bikes are cheaper and faster than TDA. There is also the Dakka Banner, turning even a simple 3man combat squad into a hosing machine. They are also rather easy to hide and when the opportunity comes, open fire and decimate the opponent. If that is not an option, you still can play the capping game very well, especially since your bikes will usually always force enemy dedicated cappers from an objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 The humble beginning of my army: Bikes and Attack Bikes: http://i.imgur.com/ruBTyLl.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hoayjYU.jpg Sicaran and Speeders http://i.imgur.com/O236kTn.jpg Flyer and Knights (mounted on TWC): http://i.imgur.com/RnJRdKu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/AvqY43E.jpg Sammael's mount: http://i.imgur.com/vOIelSC.jpg Plasma-breathing Dragons FTW :D All those (party) assembled pieces were already in my collection, but went unused most of the time. That made completing the force relatively cheap. Time to build stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Ravenwing is extremely powerful and flexible. Your biggest problem is going to be enemy flyers, especially the dreaded hellchicken. You can pack enough melta weapon on bikes to deal with armor. I'd advise putting in some AA units if you're going to ally anything, or pick up a firehawk or two (or convert, considering the price tag). However, don't think you can play them like space wolves. Ravenwing are about hit and run. You have to skirt the enemy and engage only when the odds are greatly in your favor. 3 - 6 bikes don't last long in close combat, even against relatively poor troops. You just don't get enough attacks. Your focus should be on intimidation and seizing ground at the last minute. As for AA.. nah, not needed. If I am really facing something scary in the air, I have enough speed to reach his deployment zone in T1-2. At that point he either hovers and dies or flies over me. Aside from the Heldrake, no flyer in the game is even remotely threatening enough to even warrant a second look. And if there is one, Sicaran and RWK should be more than enough to send him packing. Hahah. Okay man, good luck :D Same is not true for all units though. Bikes are actually pretty efficient. 2+ T4 is pretty much the same defense as 3+ T5 against small arms fire, but bikes are cheaper and faster than TDA. There is also the Dakka Banner, turning even a simple 3man combat squad into a hosing machine. They are also rather easy to hide and when the opportunity comes, open fire and decimate the opponent. If that is not an option, you still can play the capping game very well, especially since your bikes will usually always force enemy dedicated cappers from an objective. Actually, they are considerably different. A krak missile will bounce off a terminator but drop a bike nice and easy. The T5 makes them slightly better vs basic s3 and s4 attacks. However, they are weaker vs power weapons and anything that is ap3 or str 6+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks why I said 'small arms fire' :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Freman, The virtue of being outnumbered is that it typically means that you have better units than your opponent. Compair 20 guardsmen to 5 deamon princes. Sure the guardsmen outnumber the deamon princes, but not nearly enough to save them. Where small elite armies generally struggle is vs armies that bring more threats than the elite army can deal with at one time. That is where RW excels... They are a small elite army, that can spread its firepower out over a large number of targets at once, or can focus to deal with tougher threats. Can you really compare 20 Guardsmen to 5 Daemon princes? That's about 100 points to 1000. Give me 1000 points of Guard and I'll happily have a crack at those Daemon Princes. I take your point about more expensive units being better, but as we know from the Tactical to Terminator comparisons in 40k being more expensive simply means your army dies faster. Against most basic weapons Ravenwing are about twice as durable as Tactical marines, but they also cost nearly twice as much. Staying at a distance, pitting your entire army against a fragment of the opponent's and destroying him piece by piece is the way to go. Fortunately, as you say, Ravenwing have the mobility to pull it off. Deathwing, sadly, don't. I never said that the IG had a chance... I just said that they out number the DPs. And that was after all your question. But you seemed to get the point I was trying to make. You pointed out that when you are outnumbered you have focus on local superiority. For about 1000 pts, RW can take the following. Sammie speeder 6 bikes, w/ 2 melta, MMAB, LS w/ HB/TML 6 bikes, w/ 2 melta, MMAB, LS w/ HB/TML LS w/ MM/AC LS w/ MM/AC That is 19 models with a ranged damage output that is hard to match with 19 models you could legally fit in 1000 pts. What i've found is that this type of list played in a man to man offense is almost unstopable. However if they castle it is almost impossible to win. How said is that... their list doesn't matter, just their deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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