30k Legions with most character

[Frostmourne]

Evening ladies and gents, for the second time today, i know right. 

I dont want to start massive rows or anything, so lets all try to keep our respect for our brothers of various Legions and not start keyboard punching eachother. 

But, I pose a question to you, What Legion has the most character? And by that i mean a few things. 

When you see someones projects, which Legions do you feel, on Tabletop, bring their character to the fore. Look the most awesome, play like they do in the books, have the most uniqueness to them, bring flair to the table, etc etc. 

I am stuck in a hobby rut atm, and after receiving some Blood Angels from Grand Father Winter, i am looking at them thinking "You look incredible lads, but the new codex isnt much more than a bog standard Marine Company which is slightly better in CC", then i think about putting them into 30K, and that becomes very bland and vague right away. So i am looking for something which looks impressive on the board, plays like it should, and has character. 

Anyone out there with ideas, or even in the same boat? 

This isnt me asking "What Legion should i do" because, i never keep my mind decided for 5 minutes, just got me thinking what the general feeling was on the subject. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Many people complain about the Alpha Legion. But this Legion is able to move in close/outflank to represent their antilegion tactics. They can 'steal' a unit if they wish from another legion which allows for brilliant individuality.

 

For Jump Packs, there isn't really much, but to Represent Blood Angels, Black Reaving Sons of Horus or World Eaters for attacks, while Raven Guard and Night Lord provide powerful elite jump infantry if that is more your style.

 

Personal favourite legions are AL and Night Lords, though.

[Frostmourne]

Night Lords are a hidden fetish of mine. I would rather lick pee off a stinging nettle than paint them though, but i would love someone to GIVE me a huge Army of them. 

[caprera]

In my humble opinion the more you go forward in the books the better the legions are represented. Here are my 2c about what I know:

 

My Death Guard doesn't have a personal version of the Destroyers, that to me should have been the first choice for a special unit. Grave Wardens seem to me like a last minute solution. Also one of their main selling points is the immunity to fear. This is great in a HH ruleset but to me has not much in common with the Death Guard. Then, apart from Rad grenades, there isn't much to say that represents a legion specialized in hostile environments and resilient beyond expectations from an Astartes.

 

The Raven Guard that I'm going to do next has instead almost a double personality. To me both its pre-Corax assault preference and the Corax infiltration are generally well represented.

"Fleet" and "Infiltration" for infantry units, "Furious charge" for jump infantry and terminators. What else you need ?  The Dark Furies are maybe the most economically effective unit I've made a list with. Reasonable price, great equipment and rules, fluffy. Only downside they are limited to 10 models but this is something I'd say for any legion unit.

 

If Blood Angels are where you come from, the Raven Guard is a good choice in my opinion. You can render an early crusade setting for your army and make it assault oriented, or go for latter marks of armour and pick the infiltration path to represent the most famous Raven Guard modus.

 

I hope I've been useful :)

[Frostmourne]

You sure have, i will definitely check out Raven Guard. 

I think Night Lords really represent what they are all about while on the Table top, so too do Emp Children, 

The real tests will be Thousand Sons and Wolves. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Honestly, Iron Hands all the way. Solid LA rules, a good RoW and great unique units that play like the background suggests.

[KBA]

I'd go with Fists if I didn't have a bias. Amazing characters, really strong rules, and fun units.

[BassWave]

All of them. The amount of character you want in a legion is up to YOU as the artist. Go look at the popular 30k threads and you'll see tribal night lords, catheric iron warriors, and dark metallic blue iron hands. FW has given us a huge setting to play in, go whatever direction you want.

 

Just keep centurions suits out of the setting :p

[Slips]

I on the other hand, have a VERY strong bias for the Fists.

 

But, reading you intro and how you feel about the new Blood Angels dex, I think you should read a few topics in the Blood Angels Sub because they don't feel that way at all! The enthusiasm is actually pretty contagious...

 

That said, since their "Chapter Tactic" is Furious Charge, you could get away with running a Generic Legion list since thats one of the USR's that you can take for all your Infantry.

 

And if you were to ask, I'd probably let you run Sanguinary Guard as an Elites Option in your Legion List. No Death Company though since, AFAIK, they didn't exist yet.

 

As to which Legion has the most character, it depends on how much you put into the project.

[Caustic63]

What you've posed is a very open question, so I'm going to interpret it to mean:

 

"Which Legion has the best arrangement of unique special rules, unique characters, unique gear, unique Rites of War, and unique units to best represent their intended playstyle on the table as represented by the canon fiction?"

 

In order to answer this question, the 'intended playstyle' of each legion must be specified and broadly agreed upon first.

 

Some Legions are easy to answer for (namely the loyalists, since they have Chapter Tactics in 40K to use as a starting point) while others are difficult to pin down in terms of specific tactics since there are few references outside of the Forge World books.

 

Hence, I'm just going to go ahead and list my top three 'best legions' and bottom three 'worst legions' in terms of how representative I think their rules are of how they are supposed to play on the table.

 

The Best Represented Legions (in no particular order):

 

- Iron Hands

- Salamanders

- Alpha Legion

 

WHY?

 

Iron Hands have the most restrictive basic rules, but also one of the best possible bonuses. Inviolate Armour stacks with FNP (which is widely available in 30K) to form one of the best survival synergies you can ask for. Both their unique units are okay to good depending on what you expect them to do. Gorgon Terminators are essentially normal terms that don't have to take a Primus Medicae to get FNP (kind of a big deal even if you think they are wanting for Firepower) and Immortals are Breacher Marines with FNP and Volkite Chargers (these guys are going to be tough to kill on all fronts). Combine that with two very effective characters and a decent to good primarch and you have an exceptional legion.

 

Salamanders don't get Dark Age stuff, but get the most comprehensive and awesome assortment of wargear of any legion. Both their special characters are usable and Rhy'tan in particular makes a good combo with Firedrakes. Both Salamanders unique units are good, with Pyroclasts representing the epitome of everything thats good about Salamanders and Firedrakes being the best CC Terminators in the game. Vulkan is a decent to good primarch as well.

 

Alpha Legion are so flexible its surprising they aren't made of rubber. Hang on you get to PICK your special rule before the game begins? All these rules are useful, so thankfully when the time comes you can chose to take the exact one you need most. Martial Hubris really only comes into play if you are already losing, but it effectively discourages you from using small squads/weak vehicles and MSU strategies. Power Daggers are an excellent way to get extra attacks out of PFs and Paragon Blades, while the AL Rite of War allows you to steal a unique unit from another Legion which opens up a whole pandoras box of possibilities. Kill Teams and Lernaeans have their uses (and in fact the unqiue terminators are quite exceptional for their points) but Alpharius is a true gem. He is easily the best 'support' primarch in the game since Preferred Enemy is such a GOOD rule. The AL characters are okay.

 

The Worst Represented Legions (in no particular order):

 

- Sons of Horus

- Emperor's Children

- Night Lords

 

WHY?

 

Sons of Horus are a first book legion and hence didn't get as much 'attention' unit/rule-wise until later books. I think that Forgeworld has kinda struggled to sort out an identity for these guys. Bitter Pride is really a nothing drawback, but Edge of the Spear and Merciless Fighters seem like equally minor and situational benefits. Of the two Merciless Fighters is the better one but it depends on you being in combat, outnumbering your foe at I1, and not having Unwieldy weapons. This forces you to take larger more CC oriented squads to make the most of it, which is at odds with your unique units since Justaerins are absurdly expensive and Reavers are effectively elite CC marines. If your bonuses are geared towards outnumbering your opponent, would it not have made more sense to have maybe a large squad of cheaper CC marines with lower BS or something like that as a unique unit? Dreadclaws have, for the most part, been made available to other legions armies and are inferior to normal Drop Pods which are better value for the points (and won't mishap if they scatter into something). Abaddon is supposed to be the leader of the Justaerin but he really does nothing for them other then making them able to teleport (which depending on the Rite of War they should be able to anyway) and Loken is wearing Power Armour so no. Maloghurst is decent because of his slot adjustments and Fearless bubble, but his mobility penalties can be quite crippling when your army wants to be in CC. Power Sword and Power Armour = dead in a challenge.  Horus is good and can be expected to beat any other Primarch in single combat, but he's by far the most expensive so he has to do a lot to justify his price tag. Why on Terra would he NOT have Relentless when he has an Orbital Bombardment? :cuss even a normal MoS in TA can move and bombard...

 

The Emperor's Children are kinda my specialty so it's tough to rip on them too much but prior to the updates they had some serious problems and could easily be considered one of the weakest legions. Their drawback is to be forced into challenges, and to take a penalty to morale if your challenger dies... this is in return for Crusader? Getting +1 Initiative in challenges from the update partially makes up for this restriction since combined with a charging Spear/Charnabal Sabre there's a good possibility of you killing your opponent before he gets to strike.  Palatine Blades used to not be able to take more then 5 models in a unit (so essentially, expensive and dead turn 1) or Phoenix Spears but now they can making them an effective combat unit finally.  Sonic Shriekers are apparently special issue to Independent Characters (or selected unique squads) only and the entry is awkwardly worded so as to imply a single one gives an entire unit +1 Initiative.  Phoenix Terminators are pretty expensive for what you get (though Justaerin are worse) and some of the rules they have seem weak and or redundant. What is the point of Sudden Strike when you have cheap Shriekers? The initiative stack is only situation-ally useful when you can't sweep so it seems a bit redundant (especially since your character gets an initiative bonus anyway in a challenge).  Living Icon isn't terribly good either since your opponent doesn't take any penalties on his morale check so he's bound to pass it in most cases. Either way if you whiff your 1st round if you get the charge, you're dead anyway against opponents with a 2+ save so all Stubborn does is draw out the process. Wouldn't Hit and Run have made sense for Phoenix Terminators? Kakophoni have some potential but their rate of fire is too low to give them any reliability. Take them if you enjoy a lottery.  Rylanor is decent, Tarvitz is bad, but Eidolon and Fulgrim by contrast are pretty good.  A non-unwieldy Thunderhammer and picking your warlord trait are both nice things to have in a 30K army.

 

Night Lords really seem out of their niche in 30k. Since they are an army based around Fear and Night-Fighting certain opponents are just going to ignore key components of your strategy right off the bat. Play against Death Guard or Salamanders and they'll just laugh at you, while World Eaters and Iron Warriors have elements that can give you some hastle. That being as it may, Night Lords kinda got a kick in the nuts with the changes to Nightfighting (prior to that they were decent). The Forgeworld buffs sort of bring that back a bit, but the army is still hurting in regards to overall strategy. Terror squads are small and elite (hence less likely to benefit from Talent for Murder) but armed with Chargers and made into Troops they can be pretty good shooting squads. I suppose you could put them in a Dreadclaw and run them fighty too with Heavy Chainblades which isn't bad. Interestingly Night Raptors are the same price as Assault Squads for 10 while getting +1 WS and Onslaught for free (plus the ability to take special CCWs). Llansahai is really just a Medicae that gives Fearless, but he's impeded by his inability to take any mobility upgrades. Sevatar does have some neat tricks like psychic powers, but the fact that he's wearing Power Armour and has a Chainglaive means hes going to struggle to kill even basic sergeants unless you luck out and roll a 6. Kurze is decent, but like I said before his benefits are subject to being mitigated.

 

 

Well... in my opinion anyway.

[caprera]

I am really impressed by what you wrote. if it's not too much to ask I would like your opinion on my preciouses Death Guard and Raven Guard.

[Hyaenidae]

I don't think that FW did poorly with the SoH and EC. Instead, what I think we'll see is as the HH trucks on, those traitor Legions will start getting rules for possessed (like the Luperci (sp?)), daemonic weapons, et cetera. In other words, they had to be under-represented, or else the addition of all the heeby-jeeby daemon stuff later would have made them over powered.

[Caustic63]

I am really impressed by what you wrote. if it's not too much to ask I would like your opinion on my preciouses Death Guard and Raven Guard.

 

The Death guard are a curious hybrid of the Salamanders and the Iron Warriors. As a first book legion they were already decent because of their morale based benefits, and with the upgrade and later books they have become a force to be reckoned with. Chem-burners are handy on a variety of units but they are particularly lethal on Heavy Flamer Support Squads or a Predator with a Flamestorm Cannon and Machine Spirit. Power Scythes are essentially Power Axes that get their bonus attacks through being outnumbered in combat (and by coincidence Night Lords and Sons of Horus get bonuses for outnumbering you!). This means it is situational, but can be good if you plan to use small and elite units like the Deathshroud Terminators which are good units thanks to multiple wounds, being able to be taken in multiple slots, and a ridiculously small unit tax.The DG Rite of War is highly useful in many ways, but mainly because it allows you to move your Heavy Support Squads and Veterans out of HS and Elites respectively to make room for heavy vehicles and terminators/dreadnaughts.  Iron Warriors are highly jealous of this ability, especially since you aren't forced to take an additional compulsory Troops like many other legions are when using their RoW.  Rask is okay, being essentially a Siege Breaker Praetor (useful if you don't want to eat too many HQ slots and points) and Typhon is okay too, but Morturg is an exceptional support character (apart from not having Artificer Armour and Master of the Legion) since he allows you to Infiltrate a large portion of your army.  Mortarion is AMAZING. He is tough, fighty, gives his legion a highly useful SR, and most importantly he is HIGHLY mobile. His Shadow of the Reaper ability allows him to cross great distances in a single turn and then charge, where his weapon gives him bonus attacks if he is highly outnumbered (read, he will be outnumbered most of the time since hes going solo). High points Death Guard lists should always include him, he's that good.

 

I'll reserve opinion on the Raven Guard because I've never played against them and don't understand them very well since they are relatively new.

[caprera]

Thanks Caustic, I'll think about it.

 

I don't think that FW did poorly with the SoH and EC. Instead, what I think we'll see is as the HH trucks on, those traitor Legions will start getting rules for possessed (like the Luperci (sp?)), daemonic weapons, et cetera. In other words, they had to be under-represented, or else the addition of all the heeby-jeeby daemon stuff later would have made them over powered.

 

This is true but don't you think that relying only on possessed units in the coming books is reducing the scope on these legions ? I mean: ALL the legions have been a legion once. They had peculiarities that made them conquer entire systems single-handedly without daemons. Reading the rules as now it seems that until they turned traitor all these legions had been more lucky than worthy....

 

For instance: taking example of what Caustic wrote. Salamanders atm look like an improvement of the Death Guard. I love the XIX but it has always been a second-line legion that now has the attentions of so many players: is this casual ? I don't think so...

[Hesh Kadesh]

I don't call 300pts a unit tax.

 

Night Lords fear funzies trigger a lot more as a result of no ATSKNF and Fearless being limited to select units or the odd hard counter army. Fears main weaoness in 30k is the weakness of the rule more than anything. Forcing an autobreakif they lost the test like in old Warhammer would be better.

 

Raven Guard have some lovely niche aspects - unlike AL a mix of infiltrate and heavy assault units combined with the Darkwing Eagle and Mor Deythan are brilliant.