Love the Fuff dislike the codex

[Morik]

Hello everyone, 

 

Im new to the wargaming hobby but i have been reading 40k for years (mainly ciaphas cain and eisenhorn/ravenor), i decided to build my army and after a lot of consideration  i decided on the wolves of Fenris as my Army, im proud to say i made this choice entirely on the fluff, without considering the codex. Here is my problem,  as i must say im a little disappointed at the lack of units that i like in the SW codex,  as most of them seem like inferior versions of C:SM units (swiftclaws and skyclaws), the point discount seem not to be worth the loss in combat effectiveness (once you spend 12-21 points on amodel a extra 2 per model seem trivial), i should also mention i dislike thunderwolfe cavalry, fenrisian wolves and dreadnoughts in general, and all of the unique characters except arjac. I kind of wish the codex had some sternguard, honor guard, or death company equivalent i.e. 20-25 point specialty infantry as WGPA seem like they suck for their price. Im going for a infantry heavy drop pod list

 

So im asking you veteran long fangs, can you please help me love the codex as much as i love the fluff, because i really dont want to play ultramarines, imperial fist or throne help me blood angels :S only because i like their codex. is there some secret to the codex im not understanding (lone wolves maybe).

 

Thank you for your help!

[maverik_girl]

Nobody here has the right to make you “like” something you already don't. However you have several options...

 

1) Play as your own lost company. You're the wolf lord. Limit your access or handicap yourself from using the things you don't like about te codex.

 

2) Play a different army that has similar aspects to the wolves using the C:SM

 

But I have to ask, if you've enjoyed the fluff so much about the wolves, then why take away their individuality? The very same troops and options that make the space wolves who they are... Something to think about.

[xxoblivionxx33]

The secret is thunder wolf cavalry. oh and iron priests on wolves. They're pretty amazing. 

[Cain21]

What's not to like about thunderwolf cavalry? Not a single other loyalist can pull off a cavalry type unit, even all those posers with their "horses".

[Lord Blackwood]

buy champions of fenris , love yer life 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

You mentioned that you hate TWC, and the swiftclaws/skyclaws. You also say that wolf guard suck. To me it seems like you're bound and determined to hate the codex. But, I'll clue you in to a few things that got me over my dislike of those units.

 

The Claws have rage, giving them +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1. If you add a wolf priest to a unit of 'claws, they gain preferred enemy (reroll 1's) on whatever you declare at the beginning of the game, and they gain a 6+ FNP, which is essentially a 6++. Now, from the codex, take the wulfen stone on said WP, and now your angry vikings on bikes or jet packs or on foot gain furious charge (+1S on the charge). Bikes and Jump packs get hammer of wrath (jump packs only if you didn't jump in movement) meaning you effectively get 2 rounds of attacks.

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry gets a lot of the same benefits as bikes, +1 S,T,A,W and gain rending. Meaning, you could kill TEQ's with a chainsword. There are benefits. I have only one unit of TWC, and I don't use them that much, because I liked a min deploy Drop Pod list with flier support.

 

The dreads, I love them. I like walkers, they go in drop pods, and I generally kit them for killing infantry and charging vehicles. Murderfang is about the only dread we have that is good for melee. 

 

I don't like using Named characters. And besides, Bjorn's too pricey for what he does, Canis and Herald are good for TWC which I don't use often, Logan is a beatstick that occupies a slot no one wants to see sub 5k, Ragnar buffs Blood claws which I use as meatshields, Ulrik is awesome and I'd use him a ton but I'd rather have more meltaguns, Njal is awesome but again I can get a squad of termies for his cost, Arjac is Thor and therefore awesome, and Last we have Lukas who is great fun for trolling the opponent. I have most of the models for the Named Characters because they look great and they're the most bad ass looking hq's around. I do the Same for my Tau (farsight) and my Necrons (Trazyn, Anrakyr, Oberon). But I rarely use the characters they're supposed to be. 

 

If it helps, think of fenrisian wolves as military working dogs. They have a place, and a use. Best way to use them is as ablative wounds for your HQ's. Put them in front of your lord, or his unit, and they'll eat the shots, leaving more of your unit and your lord untouched. If they survive, they're more attacks into the close combat. They're beasts so they move 12". Take them in a unit and run them ahead of your force, and your opponent will have to deal with them. 

 

But if you're so inclined to lean more towards the Mech side, you could fashion your force after the Iron Wolves. They eschew the fleshy beasts in favour of the metal ones. They have more tanks and vehicles than any of the other Great Companies. So maybe go that direction. 

 

As for PAWG, they have their uses, mostly in that they can take any weapon from the ranged or melee lists, they can take Jump Packs, or Bikes. They're your sternguard and vanguard, rolled into one unit. They can't get special weapons I'll grant you, but they are still an effective unit. They come in 5 points cheaper than the Vanguard squad.

 

Instead of Sternguard, we have grey hunters, sure they can't take all those combi-meltas, but they do get close combat weapons for 2pts per model. A fully equipped sternguard melta bunker comes in at 330pts, a grey hunter melta squad comes in at 198pts, wolf guard at 252pts all combi-meltas. They come out a hell of a lot cheaper. Let me reiterate, our vets can take bikes. Wolf Guard on bikes is a terrifying prospect. SS/FS combo on a a bike. S5 AP3 hits at initiative, 3++, and you have twin linked boltguns. You still get to shoot and beat face in CC. 

 

One thing you may want to do is get Champions of Fenris. That's where the magic is. 1HQ+2Elites min (up to 4 HQ, 8 elites, 3 troops, 3 FA, 3 HS, 1 Fort, 1 LoW) and you get +1WS to all WG (TDAWG, PAWG, WGPL, WGTL), and TWC (and TWCL). You also get some shiny new relics, and some pretty good warlord traits. And the formations. Those can be fun, I'm a big fan of the Void Claws and the Wolf Guard Thunderstrike (no named characters, and you get some flexibility in armaments and adding IC's). 

 

There are tons of things that you can do that you can have tons of fun with. The units you mentioned not liking have some synergy elements to really make them shine. The Wolf Priest in the Blood Claws, could be replaced with a divination rune priest for re-rolling failed to hit rolls, negating your WS/BS3. Now, WS3 is hitting on 4's most of the time anyway so there's no big difference between WS3 and WS4, not until you face WS7, then you go from hitting on 4's to hitting on 5's. The only time a marine is hitting on 3's is guard and tau and cultists. So the difference between the two WS stats is almost a non issue most of the time. So you hit on 4's instead of 3's against guard, you're throwing down 4 attacks per model first turn of combat at I4, I'm not worried. At those numbers you stand a good chance of wiping out orks too. Do not discount the Claws because of their low WS. And BS3, statistically you should fail half your dice rolls to hit. That's not always the case though. So again don't discount the claws. 

 

There is much fun to be had with space wolves, they're an incredibly versatile army, and they'll serve you well for a very long time. And If you can't figure them out, We would be glad to help you brother, after all the Fang has been quite receptive and helpful in my experience. 

 

So, Hail and Welcome to the Brotherhood of the Fang. Keep your powder dry and your eyes on target. And may your mead horn never be empty...

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Vash113]

Hello everyone, 

 

Im new to the wargaming hobby but i have been reading 40k for years (mainly ciaphas cain and eisenhorn/ravenor), i decided to build my army and after a lot of consideration  i decided on the wolves of Fenris as my Army, im proud to say i made this choice entirely on the fluff, without considering the codex. Here is my problem,  as i must say im a little disappointed at the lack of units that i like in the SW codex,  as most of them seem like inferior versions of C:SM units (swiftclaws and skyclaws), the point discount seem not to be worth the loss in combat effectiveness (once you spend 12-21 points on amodel a extra 2 per model seem trivial), i should also mention i dislike thunderwolfe cavalry, fenrisian wolves and dreadnoughts in general, and all of the unique characters except arjac. I kind of wish the codex had some sternguard, honor guard, or death company equivalent i.e. 20-25 point specialty infantry as WGPA seem like they suck for their price. Im going for a infantry heavy drop pod list

 

So im asking you veteran long fangs, can you please help me love the codex as much as i love the fluff, because i really dont want to play ultramarines, imperial fist or throne help me blood angels :S only because i like their codex. is there some secret to the codex im not understanding (lone wolves maybe).

 

Thank you for your help!

 

Others have already given some good advice but I'll see if I can throw out a few things as well.

 

You do have a number of options here if you don't like the particular rules or codex for the army you like. The first of which is to simply use another Codex. Anything Power Armor is fair game for a counts-as proxy list. I use the Dark Angels Deathwing rules to represent my Imperial Fists 1st Company and I've seen plenty of Salamanders and Iron Hands use the Space Wolf rules to get access to dual special weapons or Terminator squad leaders.

 

You could play Space Wolves using the standard Space Marine Codex, with an emphasis on Sternguard, Vanguard and Drop Pods. You could use the Chaos Space Marine codex to gain access to Khorn Berserkers for close combat specialists similar to the Death Company and Chaos Space Marine squads with bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon as well as special and heavy weapons in squads. You could use the Blood Angels codex giving all your units Furious Charge, the actual Death Company, Sternguard and Vanguard.

 

Another option would be to take the elements you like of the Space Wolves fluff and add them to an existing but little known GW chapter like the Red Wolves, or create your own chapter. While a direct Space Wolves successor chapter is not fluffy you could have an Ultramarines or White Scars successor with heavy norse influencing elements or similar attitude and tactics.

 

A third option would be to use allies, a primary detachment from either the Space Wolf codex or another Space Marine codex with allies from another Space Marine codex to gain access to the units and rules you want. A primary Space Wolves detachment with Grey Hunters and Long Fangs in Drop Pods with a Space Marine ally with Sternguard and Tactical Squads in Drop Pods for instance.

 

Yet another option would be to simply play unbound, allowing you to take a force of whatever units you want, regardless of the FOC chart. There are disadvantages to doing this but it allows you to play whatever army you want with whatever units you want.

 

Ultimately the 40k rules are fairly flexible in terms of list and army-building allowing us to build armies in a variety of ways.

[Frater Cornelius]

I was abou to chime in and give super advice, but Vash has it perfectly covered. You can always be SW, regardless which army you use, as long as your conversion skills are up to par ;)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I had forgotten to mention allies to get the stuff you want. I run the Astartes Storm Wing, Because I love the Stormtalons and Stormraven. I've even toyed with the idea of using C:SM to gain access to those units as well as sternguard. Though my recent analysis tells me that would be an expensive proposition, points wise. I'd lose out on a lot of things I like about the SW though, which I'm not willing to do right now. Though I do want to try C:SM out, to see if I truly like the chapter tactics that intrigue me. You have a multitude of options, Still though, you do owe it to yourself to check out CoF, before you give up on the codex. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

[tjdudey]

I personally really like the uniqueness of the heirarchy within the Space Wolves.

 

I like the idea that Claws are the rookies, with lower WS and BS, then They graduate to Grey Hunters.

 

I llike the fact that Our scouts are veterans rather than rookies, which is uniquely different from the other chapters.

 

One thing that confuses me is that, Claws, can have Jump packs and Bikes, but when they become Grey Hunters they lose access to them, but can use them again when they become Wolf Guard.

 

Would be nice to have GH equivalents of Jump pack/bike troops. I realise that this would bloat the codex however.

[Vash113]

 

One thing that confuses me is that, Claws, can have Jump packs and Bikes, but when they become Grey Hunters they lose access to them, but can use them again when they become Wolf Guard.

 

Would be nice to have GH equivalents of Jump pack/bike troops. I realise that this would bloat the codex however.

 

I think it's supposed to show that Wolf Guard can be promoted straight from the Blood Claws and thus may still favor Jump Packs and Bikes while Grey Hunters and Long Fangs have given up on that silly jumping and bike riding stuff. Secondly Wolf Guard occasionally choose to utilize a variety of tactics and weaponry that other chapter forces rarely use, such as Bikes and Jump Packs.

[Lucien Eilam]

as most of them seem like inferior versions of C:SM units (swiftclaws and sky claws) the point discount seem not to be worth the loss in combat effectiveness (once you spend 12-21 points on amodel a extra 2 per model seem trivial)

Loss of combat effectiveness? I doubt there's a Space Marine player in the world who wouldn't happily trade a point of WS for an extra attack on the charge, a hidden power fist and the option of melta guns on their Assault Marines.

 

I kind of wish the codex had some sternguard, honor guard, or death company equivalent i.e. 20-25 point specialty infantry as WGPA seem like they suck for their price

 

Wolf Guard are great. They're cheaper and more flexible than C:SM Veterans, and they can take bikes too.

[Leif Bearclaw]

One thing that confuses me is that, Claws, can have Jump packs and Bikes, but when they become Grey Hunters they lose access to them, but can use them again when they become Wolf Guard.

Would be nice to have GH equivalents of Jump pack/bike troops. I realise that this would bloat the codex however.

I think it's supposed to show that Wolf Guard can be promoted straight from the Blood Claws and thus may still favor Jump Packs and Bikes while Grey Hunters and Long Fangs have given up on that silly jumping and bike riding stuff.

I think it's more that they have to go back to using that gear (especially the Jump Packs) to keep up with the Claws they're meant to be minding. After all, Ragnar was promoted to WG straight from the Claws, and that's stated to be an almost unprecedented circumstance, so it is unlikely to explain the majority of sky/swiftclaw Pack Leaders.

Now I'm something of a traditionalist, and don't like the recent trend towards allies, and I dislike the whole 'these SWs use the BA codex' concept. So I'm going to suggest a rather left field alternative, which depends of how forgiving your gaming group is. You might want to consider tracking down copies of the 3rd edition dex and codex Eye of Terror, and run the 13th Company list from those books,either alone or allied to modern Wolves. That list provides ample elite infantry (with Scout and Move Through Cover), pretty much fulfilling the criteria set out in the OP. Now the list is a decade old and a good few editions behind, but if you can house rule a few issues, and your opponents are OK with it, then you'll get a pretty unique force in the modern game that's still emphatically Space Wolf. Plus it's great fun beating modern, up to date armies with an older codex .

[NightHowler]

If you like an infantry heavy drop pod list, space wolves are great!  10 man squad of Grey Hunters with a WGPL you can have 2 special weapons and a combi weapon in each pod!  Three flamers for barbecuing some meatshields, three meltas for popping open some armor, or three plasma for laying waste to some TEQ/heavy infantry.  Drop in, step out, shoot the everloving snot out of some bad guys, then counter charge into the fun part.  Throw homing beacons on your pods and your wolfguard and lonewolf terminators will land exactly where you want them for mop-up.  Since we can take pods as fast attack choices (which you will not need for TWC or Skyclaws since you don't like them) you can make sure that you take enough empty pods that all your shock troops land T1 and if you want T1 terminators you can put them in a pod as well.  

 

For the way that you say you want to play your army, I think Space Wolves are the best.  I've underlined just a few of the reasons why we excel at the "claws of russ" style army.  There are obviously other ways to arrange it - bloodclaws aren't the best at shooting, but they are vicious in close combat (especially with a wolf priest); you an lose one of the special weapons / combi weapons to throw a character in there; you can play with the Champions of Fenris supplement for some fun formations.

 

Your love for the codex will grow by getting to know her.  She is a pretty forgiving mistress, and definitely worth sticking with.

[Ullr Direfang]

Well I like the  Space wolves mostly for the Fluff too. Every now and then some one goes and messes with some fluff and it kind of changes how I feel about some things. Personally, I hate the idea of Thunder Wolves BEING ridden by super humans. Just seems wrong to me. I plan to have a buddy convert me some wolf-mini-dreads to fill their places and re-write their fluff in my book.

 

Over all most have said what it comes down to. While I hate allies as well, take some and have a unique to you SW Company.

[Yoyo ninja]

I used to have similar issues with the new dex, I had no success running my mechanised list from back in the day (I think I was wishing we where still in 4th ed!). I am currently trying to update my force and make it playable, this post has been very useful.

[Vykryl]

I find myself wishing Wolf Guard could take specials like Sternguard or have special ammo. The one use combi idea rather bugs me. Not really a fan of TWC, just can't accept the power armoured giants on wolf back. Planning to make Scout riders for my three for Kill Team games.

 

What I like is the ability to completely customize leaders and squads. After much thought and floundering in designing my army I settled on basing it around a favorite novel. There are many great characters in it and our codex allows me many ways to field them, Wolf Guard, Lone Wolves, Battle Leaders, Pack Leaders, Dreadnoughts.

 

Looking through the other codices I don't see a way to make the colorful characters I want in my army.

 

The secret of the Space Wolves codex (especially with Champions of Fenris) is each model can be customized. Each HQ, Lone Wolf, Wolf Guard can be an individual with its own equipment. Each squad has more options to individualize it than other codices.

 

If you can't find a build with Space Wolves you like then get the codex you do like. If you like the look of Wolves and their fluff then get Space Wolves and build them to the codex you like. This is your hobby, money and time, make what you want. I had considered making my Wolves as Salamanders (because I like fire) until I decided to model my army after the characters in The Long Ships. Only the Wolves codex allows me to field the number of personalities I want in my army now that I have a plan. Find your plan, how you see your Great Company, and then we can offer better advice. It may be you find all your answer here or you may find your play style in another sub forum and only your modeling here.

 

Find your plan as it all starts there. Until then experiment

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I agree with Night howler. On the surface it doesn't look like the greatest codex. You gotta dig a little. I was saddened to lose some things from the last codex. The sagas became warlord traits, instead of upgrades, so now it's of limited use. Some wargear went away, others got renamed and became relics. We lost mark of the wulfen, which I thought was cool little gameplay mechanic. Grey hunters went down in price and lost their CCW, which you can get back for 2ppm, making them 1ppm more than they were in the last codex. Obviously there were some changes that needed to be made to keep the wolves competitive. But some of the changes seem so arbitrary, and needless. We lost a lot of flavour from the last dex. What we gained though makes up for some of those losses, we got some fliers giving us some much needed anti-air, we gained some fun relics, allowing us more flexibility than we'd previously had, and giving some much needed boons to our Generic HQ's. I can always find an opponent to let me play the old dex, for funsies. 

 

Dig through the codex a little before you give up.

[Frater Cornelius]

Look through Champions of Fenris. The alternative FOC allows for a myriad of ways to play SW, that no other Chapter can replicate. We are talking full TWC, full bike, full TDA, full dread, full flyer, full everything. You can mix and match as you please.

[NightHowler]

I also want to add, I see a lot of people complaining about the idea of power armored superhumans riding giant wolves...   don't let that be a reason not to use TWC.

 

I have to say, I know that it takes a lot of work, but there are a number of cool conversion ideas that will allow you to use the rules for TWC without buying the GW version of dudes in armor riding wolves.  Direfang mentioned his wolf-mini-dread idea, I know Immerstrurm has some amazing looking cavalry models that he uses, and I've taken the TWC as my Wulfen (full blown wulfen - not just those who struggle with the curse) and used TWC sized werewolf models covered in GW bits for my counts-as TWC conversion.  

 

If the idea of a thousand pounds of armored super soldier riding a wolf is the only reason why you don't like playing with TWC, with a little time and effort you can have the rules without the silly. 

[Yoyo ninja]

I love the idea of TWC being wulfen NightHowler! You sir, are a genius! It would be easy to theam an army around that too, make a great company totally in the grip of the curse of the wulfen.

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello everyone, 

 

Im new to the wargaming hobby but i have been reading 40k for years (mainly ciaphas cain and eisenhorn/ravenor), i decided to build my army and after a lot of consideration  i decided on the wolves of Fenris as my Army, im proud to say i made this choice entirely on the fluff, without considering the codex. Here is my problem,  as i must say im a little disappointed at the lack of units that i like in the SW codex,  as most of them seem like inferior versions of C:SM units (swiftclaws and skyclaws), the point discount seem not to be worth the loss in combat effectiveness (once you spend 12-21 points on amodel a extra 2 per model seem trivial), i should also mention i dislike thunderwolfe cavalry, fenrisian wolves and dreadnoughts in general, and all of the unique characters except arjac. I kind of wish the codex had some sternguard, honor guard, or death company equivalent i.e. 20-25 point specialty infantry as WGPA seem like they suck for their price. Im going for a infantry heavy drop pod list

 

So im asking you veteran long fangs, can you please help me love the codex as much as i love the fluff, because i really dont want to play ultramarines, imperial fist or throne help me blood angels :S only because i like their codex. is there some secret to the codex im not understanding (lone wolves maybe).

 

Thank you for your help!

 

Hello OP,  Codex: Space Wolves is the normal force book for the table, and the fluff.  If GW thinks we need what we have, well, what we can do is roll with either C:SW or CoF, the supplement for running Logan's Great Company.  So, without further ado, consider if you would please that the Space Wolves, at least in the fluff, are the Emperor's Executioners; to do this, they must be able to field a force that can compete and at times best other Astartes, if only by wargear, due to the whole fact that without getting into a powderkeg argument across forums, Astartes are the same by and large on table.

 

All the above said, SW's tend to take the field in the armor of their forebears, wearing their own trophies earned in combat against wolves, and both being and bringing with them the tools and skills needed to take on the foes of Mankind, with the will needed to win.  That's the fluff...  You get to fill in the rest on the table.

 

To put it simply OP, you get to model your force however you wish; I recommend that if you want Drop Pods, consider GH's with whatever you wish.  Use whatever you want to, and don't use whatever feels wrong to you.  Our core Codex is a great book, and it's volume of available options for a force allows for a great deal of fun if you decide to go along a certain route.

 

I was going to justify the units and their kit to you as well, however, after further thought, that seems to miss the point:  there's no real reasoning with an opinion, and you are entitled to yours as much as I am mine.

 

Take what you like, OP.  If you want to be convinced of the merits of how the SW's approach warfighting, consider diving the Space Wolves Resources Thread stickied on this forum.

[tylerw]

Hello everyone, 

 

Im new to the wargaming hobby but i have been reading 40k for years (mainly ciaphas cain and eisenhorn/ravenor), i decided to build my army and after a lot of consideration  i decided on the wolves of Fenris as my Army, im proud to say i made this choice entirely on the fluff, without considering the codex. Here is my problem,  as i must say im a little disappointed at the lack of units that i like in the SW codex,  as most of them seem like inferior versions of C:SM units (swiftclaws and skyclaws), the point discount seem not to be worth the loss in combat effectiveness (once you spend 12-21 points on amodel a extra 2 per model seem trivial), i should also mention i dislike thunderwolfe cavalry, fenrisian wolves and dreadnoughts in general, and all of the unique characters except arjac. I kind of wish the codex had some sternguard, honor guard, or death company equivalent i.e. 20-25 point specialty infantry as WGPA seem like they suck for their price. Im going for a infantry heavy drop pod list

 

So im asking you veteran long fangs, can you please help me love the codex as much as i love the fluff, because i really dont want to play ultramarines, imperial fist or throne help me blood angels :S only because i like their codex. is there some secret to the codex im not understanding (lone wolves maybe).

 

Thank you for your help!

 

I play drop-pod-heavy lists, with occasional breaks so from them so that friends don't get too fed up with the list.  I rarely run TWC/fen wolves in high numbers, although I do love me a base dreadnought in my pods.  First, I think you seem to be a little confused - WGPA is not too far off of DC/HG/Sternguard. They don't have all of the same options, but they're a pretty good elite unit, and they're perfect for your melta pods, especially if you prefer avoiding dreadnoughts.

 

Like, if I were building a list with the things you like/dislike, I'd probably do something like 3 or 5 DPs, with 2 5-man WGPA combi-melta pods, 1 10-man GH pod, and go from there. I'm not sure what other figures/models you own or enjoy, but mix in your desired FA/HS picks.

 

If you are like me, you don't exactly LOVE the assault-heavy lists that the codex support well, but luckily, counterattack means you can drop units of GH, WGPA, and so on in to break up armored targets and still smack the crap out of opposing assault units when they charge you.

What is it that you DO like about other codex, such as C:SM, exactly?

[Donkalleone]

Im new to Wargaming, too, and i love the Wolves Modellwise. That Doesnt Block you/me taking allies or only taking the wolfy Modells with ChaptwerTactics Standart Spacemarine. A SM Army with CoF Formation is a good alternative, too, exspecially Arjac Schieldbrothers and ViodClaws.

[Ullr Direfang]

 

I have to say, I know that it takes a lot of work, but there are a number of cool conversion ideas that will allow you to use the rules for TWC without buying the GW version of dudes in armor riding wolves.  Direfang mentioned his wolf-mini-dread idea, I know Immerstrurm has some amazing looking cavalry models that he uses, and I've taken the TWC as my Wulfen (full blown wulfen - not just those who struggle with the curse) and used TWC sized werewolf models covered in GW bits for my counts-as TWC conversion.  

 

 

 

Night, that is my idea, just mechanical. My idea too was that they are injured Wolves who feel to the curse, and that is how they let them die. Penitent Engine from the SoB styled for the Space Woves.