Quick question about Attack Bikes

[vampirnata]

Hi there!

 

I couldn't find the info I needed after some searching on the interwebs, so I thought this is probably THE place to ask.

 

Are we, DA, able to take 3 Attack Bikes as a squad?

 

Thanks!

[Lord Sesslec]

No, you can only take one per Ravenwing Attack Squadron and then it operates by itself from the start of the game.

[vampirnata]

No, you can only take one per Ravenwing Attack Squadron and then it operates by itself from the start of the game.

Ahh I was afraid of that :/

 

Thank you for the reply! :)

[Isiah]

Do you not have a DA Codex vampirnata? All RW options are on pages 101 and 102. The all-important Ravenwing Combat Squad details are on page 47 :)

 

Cheers

I

[vampirnata]

Do you not have a DA Codex vampirnata? All RW options are on pages 101 and 102. The all-important Ravenwing Combat Squad details are on page 47

Cheers

I

I do but I'm still very new to all this. I still don't quite grasp the differences in terms of what I can take between the Space Marines Codex and the DA Codex. Some of the games I've watched have space marine chapters with 3 Attack Bike Squads, so I was a little confused.

[Isiah]

Well for anything Dark Angels you use the DA Codex. It's 'our' way of waging war :yes:

 

Welcome to the Rock.

 

Cheers

I

[SvenONE]

 

I do but I'm still very new to all this. I still don't quite grasp the differences in terms of what I can take between the Space Marines Codex and the DA Codex. Some of the games I've watched have space marine chapters with 3 Attack Bike Squads, so I was a little confused.

 

 

 Yeah despite us being pretty good on bikes we aren't run an ABS, which is a whole separate entry.  I think this is a decision on the developers' part because we have access to a Landspeeder via the RWAS and 2 extra capacity in a RSS (Ravenwing Support Squadron) compared to vanilla.

[vampirnata]

 

 

I do but I'm still very new to all this. I still don't quite grasp the differences in terms of what I can take between the Space Marines Codex and the DA Codex. Some of the games I've watched have space marine chapters with 3 Attack Bike Squads, so I was a little confused.

 

 

 Yeah despite us being pretty good on bikes we aren't run an ABS, which is a whole separate entry.  I think this is a decision on the developers' part because we have access to a Landspeeder via the RWAS and 2 extra capacity in a RSS (Ravenwing Support Squadron) compared to vanilla.

 

 

Pfft, bad decision If I may say so!

 

We should be "the" bike army with all options. Others should get restrictions :/

[ValourousHeart]

Pfft, bad decision If I may say so!

 

We should be "the" bike army with all options. Others should get restrictions :/

Well it seems that you have very little understanding of the RW... and probably WS as well.

 

If you ask most players the difference between RW and WS, the top answer you would get is color.

They would of course be wrong.

 

The WS backgound is akin to the mongals, but also makes use of german blitzkrieg tactics.

As such it does not require bikes at all to be succuessful.

All it requires is the ability to get a large portion of the army to hit one spot of the enemy line all at once.

I like to call this the delicate application of a sledge hammer.

It is blunt, it is brute, it is great at breaking a defensive line.

Key units to include are Dreads, Vindicators, Drop pods, and Rhinos.

They can make use of bikes in place of troops in Rhinos, but they don't need to.

 

The RW is more akin to the marines long range recon patrols.

They are very good at taking apart a convoy or other types of harassment.

This is very much a job specalized to bikes and speeders.

And it requires getting the right tools to the right positions which is why our combat squad rule works the way it does.

 

The biggest problem that RW faces is the fact that game favors a mobile attacker / static defender set up, and not a mobile defender (convoy) / ambush setup.

 

With all that said there is little in game advantage the RW can gain by getting ABS, over our free floating AB, other than ablative wounds.

Those ablative wounds come at the cost of a FA slot, which is already strained when building this type of list.

More effective changes to make would be moving RWBK to elites and/or our flyers to heavy support or elites.

 

Here is an in-game example of why ABS are not an advantage to us... This was from a previous edition, but the reasoning still holds true. I ran my 3 AB to deal with a leman russ on one flank. As typical I get there and all 3 wiff. My front attack bike was about 4 inches in front of the tank, and the other 2 AB looked like they were in coherency. The player was nervous about shooting his battle cannon for fear of scattering back on his own tank or missing completely. So he shoots his lascannon and heavy bolters. The lascannon rolled a 2+ and cause ID (remember earlier edition). Now that was it, he couldn't do anything to my other 2 attack bikes. Had I been running an ABS I would have easily lost another bike.

[Brother dean]

Now if you run three RWAS with three attack bikes you can run all three of them close to each other and if your opponents choose to shoot at one of them with one of his units and scores 4 unsaved wounds it would only go on one of the bikes and only one would die.  If you had them as a squadron then two would die.  Your opponent effectively "wasted" two wounds because he had to shoot at one unit...

 

Define "Target Saturation"

[Master Sheol]

I think that AB are good and i would like to have back the ABS (we was the only army in 2nd Edition to have them and we are now the only one to not have them)...

In addiction being DA Able to take 5 LS per squadron we could be Able to have 5 AB per squadron Too...

What i really dont Like about AB is that they still are Like in 2nd Edition HB or MM... It would be interesting to have more heavy weapons options For them, like Plasma cannons, grav cannons, and so on...

 

About the RW and DW as troops. It's Clear that in 7th edition with all the units scoring there is no need to love some unita to troops and it was stupid in the last edtions that only troops were scoring...

In the light of the SW/DE supplements and the SoB campaign set that formations and alternate FOCs are the way (the first example was the inquisition codex with just HQ and élites) and to be honest with alk this things i dont feel the need to go unbound...

[vampirnata]

 

Pfft, bad decision If I may say so!

 

We should be "the" bike army with all options. Others should get restrictions :/

Well it seems that you have very little understanding of the RW... and probably WS as well.

 

If you ask most players the difference between RW and WS, the top answer you would get is color.

They would of course be wrong.

 

The WS backgound is akin to the mongals, but also makes use of german blitzkrieg tactics.

As such it does not require bikes at all to be succuessful.

All it requires is the ability to get a large portion of the army to hit one spot of the enemy line all at once.

I like to call this the delicate application of a sledge hammer.

It is blunt, it is brute, it is great at breaking a defensive line.

Key units to include are Dreads, Vindicators, Drop pods, and Rhinos.

They can make use of bikes in place of troops in Rhinos, but they don't need to.

 

The RW is more akin to the marines long range recon patrols.

They are very good at taking apart a convoy or other types of harassment.

This is very much a job specalized to bikes and speeders.

And it requires getting the right tools to the right positions which is why our combat squad rule works the way it does.

 

The biggest problem that RW faces is the fact that game favors a mobile attacker / static defender set up, and not a mobile defender (convoy) / ambush setup.

 

With all that said there is little in game advantage the RW can gain by getting ABS, over our free floating AB, other than ablative wounds.

Those ablative wounds come at the cost of a FA slot, which is already strained when building this type of list.

More effective changes to make would be moving RWBK to elites and/or our flyers to heavy support or elites.

 

Here is an in-game example of why ABS are not an advantage to us... This was from a previous edition, but the reasoning still holds true. I ran my 3 AB to deal with a leman russ on one flank. As typical I get there and all 3 wiff. My front attack bike was about 4 inches in front of the tank, and the other 2 AB looked like they were in coherency. The player was nervous about shooting his battle cannon for fear of scattering back on his own tank or missing completely. So he shoots his lascannon and heavy bolters. The lascannon rolled a 2+ and cause ID (remember earlier edition). Now that was it, he couldn't do anything to my other 2 attack bikes. Had I been running an ABS I would have easily lost another bike.

 

 

Thank you for this. A very thorough analysis. As I said I am still learning and of course am prone to making new player assumptions. 

 

However it's posts like this that lead a young fledging like me in the right direction!

[twopounder]

No, you can only take one per Ravenwing Attack Squadron and then it operates by itself from the start of the game.

Ahh I was afraid of that :/

Thank you for the reply!

Its actually a better option. Though you have to take 6 full bike squads to get 6 attack bikes, each bike is a separate unit and is still a troops choice for purposes of capturing objectives. This means your opponent has that many different targets to split fire between and you have that many more objective takers. Keeping them intermixed with your bike squadrons is great for maximum confusion (the enemy's troops, always make sure to tell your opponent that they are separate units) and general annoyance.

[ValourousHeart]

Twopounder is right about have to keep telling your opponent how your units are organized.

 

In my example above against the leman russ... I explained before the game started that the AB were all seperate.

It was turn 1 when I got my bikes over to his tank when I explained it again right before he started his shooting phase, and a third time at the end of his shooting phase when he was still confused why I wouldn't remove the second AB.

 

Our next game I had to expain it all over again. Several times even.

It wasn't till our third or fourth game that he stopped being confused by it.

This wasn't because he was dumb, it was just very different than anything else in the game.

And it is no different than asking an IG player to explain orders, or Tau to explain their overwatch advantages.

 

I was even accused by an observer during one of those games for cheating because I ran the 3 units "in coherency".

To which I then had to teach them about the difference between unit coherency and unit spacing, and the difference between friendly and enemy unit spacing.

 

Now that we are on our second codex that uses that format, a lot of people who have played with or against our codex are familure with this gem, but you will still be better served by not assuming they know.

[Tygwyn]

No, you can only take one per Ravenwing Attack Squadron and then it operates by itself from the start of the game.

Ahh I was afraid of that :/

Thank you for the reply!

Its actually a better option. Though you have to take 6 full bike squads to get 6 attack bikes, each bike is a separate unit and is still a troops choice for purposes of capturing objectives. This means your opponent has that many different targets to split fire between and you have that many more objective takers. Keeping them intermixed with your bike squadrons is great for maximum confusion (the enemy's troops, always make sure to tell your opponent that they are separate units) and general annoyance.

I don't think you have to take full 6 bike RWAS to get the AB; you DO have to take 6 to get the LS, but can you not just run a RWAS of 3 bikes and 1 AB? That's how I read it anyway!

[Isiah]

Yes 3 bikes will do it :)

 

Cheers

I

[twopounder]

No, you can only take one per Ravenwing Attack Squadron and then it operates by itself from the start of the game.

Ahh I was afraid of that :/

Thank you for the reply!

Its actually a better option. Though you have to take 6 full bike squads to get 6 attack bikes, each bike is a separate unit and is still a troops choice for purposes of capturing objectives. This means your opponent has that many different targets to split fire between and you have that many more objective takers. Keeping them intermixed with your bike squadrons is great for maximum confusion (the enemy's troops, always make sure to tell your opponent that they are separate units) and general annoyance.

I don't think you have to take full 6 bike RWAS to get the AB; you DO have to take 6 to get the LS, but can you not just run a RWAS of 3 bikes and 1 AB? That's how I read it anyway!

Sorry, re-reading that I can see it was worded poorly. I meant 6 squads for 6 attack bikes, not 6 "full squads" but fully six squads might be a better term? I mean 6 squads of 3+ bikes, anyway.