Where does Mephiston belong?

[Dafoo]

So, I am trying to work out a list and I have always been fond of Mephiston. I just can't seem to find a good unit for him. I don't have Any Vanguard vets and Death Company doesn't feel right. I wanted him with a SangPriest and a Rad Grenade Inquisitor for a death star in a Redeemer or Crusader. Death Company don't take advantage of the SangPriest to the best potential and I don't get a discount with Packless AM's and I am most likely going to face Nids with DStar Swarmlord and WraithSpam. So I am looking for a unit I can build my army around. Anyway thanks for any advice and what has worked for you? Does anyone else have trouble finding Meph a home? I am so used to his solo performance that I can't seem to find synergy.

[Cronhour]

What powers fo you plan to take? I always liked the idea of relentless sterguard

[Deschenus Maximus]

I just don't see a point to Meph anymore, personaly.

[Dafoo]

I was going to just do the Sanguinary Discipline. I like our powers and think it would be the right move. Hammerhand on Inquisitor with Rad Grenades. +2 Str and -1 opposing toughness with mephs Str 10 to ID MC's.

[ElectricPaladin]

He can roll with terminators and a priest. He got a lot squishier, so I like the idea of putting 2+/3++/5+FNP bodies between him and wounds. For full trollface, ally in another priest - this one an ecclesiarchy one - so all those 2+/3++s are rerollable. 

[Dafoo]

That would be in a full crusader. I would rather 3++ reroll than 2+. That is just mean. I do have a priest.. well. That could be fun. Any Power Armor ideas?

[ElectricPaladin]

That would be in a full crusader. I would rather 3++ reroll than 2+. That is just mean. I do have a priest.. well. That could be fun. Any Power Armor ideas?

 

You can reroll either. The priest's power is "reroll any failed armor or invulnerable save." That means that you reroll your 2+s, and against AP 1 and 2 weapons you reroll your 3++.

 

None at the moment. But I'll think on it.

[Shaezus]

Dafoo I have to agree with your OP. Whatever meph can do, other things can do better and more reliably now. The increased competition for HQ slots shoves him even further down the pecking order.

[Morticon]

I just don't see a point to Meph anymore, personaly.

 

Then maybe try give it some more thought - if not for the imaginative engagement the trying itself offers, but then because that's what this community requires of your posting.

From our Mission Statement:   "The Bolter & Chainsword promotes constructive discussion about all aspects of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby in relation to Power Armor armies. " 

 

While there are things we like/dont like about the new dex, consider what your post has offered in terms of "constructive discussion". 

 

Mephy is no longer what he was - point blank, no debate.  But having him in a Raven, a Raider, a pod or even a Rhino adds such a degree of danger to the squad he's with it is hardly without point. With 2 rolls on Biomancy you have a good chance of buffing him (or the squad) nicely, still. Or, with Sang Discipline, he can have 8 init 9 attacks on the charge. 

 

He has 190 points worth of wargear:  Captain base, 2x mastery levels, 1x sword, 1x Artificer Armour, 1x Plasma Pistol - with a profile that's better than a Captain in Str, T and Att., is a Psyker (lvl3) with a hood, and has set access to a Str10 power. 

 

 

Its been said on this forum already, the "Mephstar" is great.  TH/SS Terms + Meph is very good. The terms tank the AP2, while Mephy cleans up the rest. 

 

Personally, I would consider him in a squad of podding (or Rhino borne) Vanguard with a smattering of storm shields, also, a Stern Guard. Stern suffers from having really expensive models come down, do the dirty, and then die to return fire/charges.  Mephy helps out considerably with this.  

 

Also, for 2MG, 1Vet Fist, 9 assault guys, and a Rhino you're looking at a paltry 208 Points.  You can blaze these guys up turn one,turbo in, and in turn 2 start doing some serious damage. 

 

Mephy lost his lone-star/wolf wrecking ball ability - but now, 75points cheaper than before, he's a different animal - one that really helps out our army in specific places.

 

 

 

[Shaezus]

That's another thing with the new dex: the variety of builds is as great as ever, something to suit everyone. But allow me to play naysayer / devil's advocate here. I'm shying away from mephy atm mainly cuz he isn't guaranteed to get smash and with the lower T he needs EW more than before. Of course you could take THSS terms but then that's a point assault unit that doesn't benefit from +1I on charge.

 

Of course these are points which can be negated with certain lists - swings and roundabouts and all that - but it works out that taking Dante removes he issues I have with Mephiston and also means I can take a lead assault unit that benefits both from +1 I and Dante's guaranteed DoA.

 

I can actually still see Meph and Corb complementing each other in a foot-slogging build or one where infantry play a holding role and dreads & raven-borne DC mount the assault. Defensive mephy is probably as strong as ever and could still work on psychological effect alone until our enemies realise he is not the same monster as he was before.

[InquisitorBlack]

Podding him with an accompanying squad is the way to go. Think of him as a level 3 Libby that also can cream medium units and vehicles in combat. He is primarily a libby.

 

If you aren't looking for a psyker focused list, there are better options. As someone who ran meph extensively last edition, I actually feel he has been buffed. Losing some survivability for IC and a 75pt reduction is well worth it.

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Then maybe try give it some more thought - if not for the imaginative engagement the trying itself offers, but then because that's what this community requires of your posting.

From our Mission Statement:   "The Bolter & Chainsword promotes constructive discussion about all aspects of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby in relation to Power Armor armies. " 

 

While there are things we like/dont like about the new dex, consider what your post has offered in terms of "constructive discussion". 

 

My post was short but to the point, and I stick by what I said.

 

Mephy is no longer what he was - point blank, no debate.  But having him in a Raven, a Raider, a pod or even a Rhino adds such a degree of danger to the squad he's with it is hardly without point. With 2 rolls on Biomancy you have a good chance of buffing him (or the squad) nicely, still. Or, with Sang Discipline, he can have 8 init 9 attacks on the charge. 

 

The question is not "does he add some power to the unit he's with", but rather "do we have anything that does it better?". The answer to that is yes.

 

He has 190 points worth of wargear:  Captain base, 2x mastery levels, 1x sword, 1x Artificer Armour, 1x Plasma Pistol - with a profile that's better than a Captain in Str, T and Att., is a Psyker (lvl3) with a hood, and has set access to a Str10 power. 

 

But no mobility upgrades, and not even a chance to use his Fleet short of leaving his unit, which is suicide with his new stats. If he had just a meager Jump Pack, I'd be far more accepting of the idea that he his still good.

 

Its been said on this forum already, the "Mephstar" is great.  TH/SS Terms + Meph is very good. The terms tank the AP2, while Mephy cleans up the rest. 

 

Assault Termies don't need Mephiston. They already have the survivability and the punch they need. If you want to buff them further, a normal libby can do it just as well, and costs much less than Mephy.

 

Personally, I would consider him in a squad of podding (or Rhino borne) Vanguard with a smattering of storm shields, also, a Stern Guard. Stern suffers from having really expensive models come down, do the dirty, and then die to return fire/charges.  Mephy helps out considerably with this.  

 

Meph helps Sternies, but Sternies don't help Meph. Paying 175 pts to babysit a squad that can't even assault is silly. Just get more Sternguards at that point; it'll be a better investment.

 

Also, for 2MG, 1Vet Fist, 9 assault guys, and a Rhino you're looking at a paltry 208 Points.  You can blaze these guys up turn one,turbo in, and in turn 2 start doing some serious damage. 

 

Or your opponent gets first turn, blows the Rhino sky high and then your 383 pts unit is not doing much until T3 at least. So let's say you said Drop Pod instead of Rhino - you could almost have two ML 2 libbies for the price of Meph, and they are likely going to be able to do more for your army as a whole than Meph will by virtue of having more powers.

 

Mephy lost his lone-star/wolf wrecking ball ability - but now, 75points cheaper than before, he's a different animal - one that really helps out our army in specific places.

 

I've yet to see how.

 

 

[Remtek]

9 assault marines in a pod is around 150, making the unit not to expensive. Really liking the new BA spells as your tactic will vary depending on what spells you get and you can always count on primaris. I'd say that is a pretty good distraction pod for slighly more than 300 points. Add some special weapons and a combi on srgt and you get a pretty nice alpha too. Lance, shield or even wings would could pretty good with this type of drop. I think you would need more pods for the tactic though. Dropping a single unit will probably get ugly.  If you drop another assault unit close by he can always change units for a pretty big assault range.

[Kais89]

I really like Mephiston this edition, even though he isn't as competitive as he was.

 

My success has seen him joining a squad in their drop pod, specifically sternguard or meltacide assault squad. This way, you tear open a transport for him, the marines around him soak the small arms fire (because realistically they die anyways with or with out meph) and then in your turn, Meph goes in for the kill. If you've rolled well on Sanguinary then you can sanguine shield to give his retinue a valuable 5++. A priest also really helps keep the meat shields alive.

 

In short, Meph can't survive alone anymore, but Sanguine Sword and Force means he can still crush MCs and transports like our old book easily making his points back or if youre lucky, securing Slay the Warlord. He is great for the points reduct.

[Father Mapple]

Mephiston is good with just force weapon - S6 on the charge, still 6 attacks, with WS higher than any monstrous creature other than Hive Tyrants, Daemon Princes, or Avatar. But the cheap assault squad helps him with those targets. Make sergeant challenge the MC. Then MC creams sergeant, but can't smash Mephiston. Then Mephiston murders MC on average. 6 attacks, 3 hits, wounds 1 to 2 times (for T5 through T7), force weapon kills. Without S10 buffs.

 

Got 30 incoming marine bolter equivalent shots? T5 means 20 hit, 7 wound, all but 1-2 are saved. But the unit is still full strength in offensive potential. Normally, you'd lose 3+ assault marines to that. Maybe Look Out Sir any AP2.

 

Mephiston with vanguard veterans is good. The Veterans ignore the disorganized charge penalties, and Mephiston gives himself enough boosts to do damage to either high T with sword power, MEQs with Quicken power. Means you can still win disorganized charges easily, and be tied up in combat without worrying about any return shooting. 

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

 

Got 30 incoming marine bolter equivalent shots? T5 means 20 hit, 7 wound, all but 1-2 are saved. But the unit is still full strength in offensive potential. Normally, you'd lose 3+ assault marines to that. Maybe Look Out Sir any AP2.

 

Majority Toughness means the bolters will wound on 4+, not 5+.

[InquisitorBlack]

He meant against Meph on his own, after his bodyguard are killed.

[Deschenus Maximus]

No he didn't.

[Shaezus]

There are some really good ideas for using mephy in this thread, and I'm speaking as one who so far has not found a place for him in my army's modus operandi.

 

Which begs the question: are you building a list around him, even if just chopping and changing things here and there? Or is he filling a role which your army really needs and for which he is the best choice?

[Dafoo]

I have honestly just always liked Mephiston. I used to run Descent of Angels and MechRazors. So I am just trying to figure out what the new codex is for me. I had to pick up two tac squads for troops and never had drop pods so I don't have a grip on what I can do. Meph is kind of my core HQ I have Dante and a lot of others but want to use packless troops. Meph is the best Jumpless named HQ so he is kind of my natural go to. Also he used to do so much work for me in 5th I want to have a unit to run him with often so I can see him on the table top.

[Landrick]

if i run him at all, he belongs in a drop pod with 10 Purifiers coming down T1 and frying... everything

[Shaezus]

9 purifiers hm? :p

[Landrick]

w/e the math is :P

[TheHarrower]

With a Command Squad armed with a couple Storm Shields for taking wounds and coming down Turn 1 in a Drop Pod.

[Emperors Immortals]

OK, I want to take a librarian lvl2 and a face smashing captain; am I better off with Meph? And what things do I really need to be wary of?