Salamanders 3500 points (list finished, thx@all)

[Atia]

Hiho Brothers, Sisters and Mechanicum-Hybrids!

Here's an armylist for my future Salamanders Firedrake force ... i wanted to do a fluffy army but include far fewer tanks than on my DG, while i love tanks, i want to finish the 'manders fast, and so, sorry tanks

Salamanders Firedrakes - Pride of the Legion RoW

HQ:

- Artellus Numeon, Legion Praetor: Volkite Charger, master crafted Paragon blade, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Mantle of the Eldar Drake - 170 points

- Cassian Dracos - 275 points

ELITES:

- Apothecary (goes with the Pyroclasts): Volkite charger - 55 points

- Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres assault cannon, CCW with heavy flamer, extra armour - 210 points

TROOPS:

- Firedrake Terminator squad: 10 Terminators, 8 with thunder hammer + stormshield, 1 with thunder hammer and heavy flamer, sergeant with master crafted power weapon + shield - 620 points

- Legion Veteran tactical squad: 10 Marines, legion vexilla, heavy flamer, plasmagun, sergeant with master crafted thunder hammer + infernopistol - 280 points

FAST ATTACK:

- Jetbike sky hunters: 5 Jetbikes, melta bombs, 4 heavy flamers, 1 Multi-Melta, Sergeant with hand flamer - 265 points

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Pyroclast squad: 5 Marines, melta bombs, Sergeant with power fist - 205 points

- Predator: flamestorm cannon, 2 heavy flamers, machine spirit, extra armour - 145 points

LoW:

- Vulkan - 425 points

as i'm not that min-max gamer, i want to hear your suggestions and improvements to that list, i may fill it up to 3k if i get some suggestions for extra units :>

Greetings,

Atia =)

[Slips]

You don't want tanks but thats the first thing I was going to suggest >_< - At least for the Pyroclasts and Firedrakes since you dont want them getting shot to hell.

Uh, you could do Storm Eagles (if you bump to 3k), but only if the Preator and Vulkan don't roll with the Firedrakes. But the only way to fit in 2 Storm Eagles would require you to get 70 points free, somehow; since you need 420 points.

Or you could max out on Jetbikes and do the cheesy thing and add a Jetbike Primus Medicae to them. 2+ T5 unit with FNP 5+? Yes please! Not to mention the PM will have an invulnerable save. With 3 special weapons choices you could do 1/1/1 with Multi-Melta, Volkite Culverin and Plasma Cannon and go 3/4 with the remaining jetbikes with swapping HB for Heavy Flamers; or just go full on 7 Heavy Flamers and 3 Specials.

Another option would be to Max out the Pyroclast Squad and shove them into a Land Raider Proteus. Scout it forward, move it as fast as you dare, potentially hop out turn 1 and burninate some fools. With their 2+ armor and the potential of blocking LoS with the Land Raider they aren't all that likely to get erased after flaming.

Couple that with your Predators, Flamer Jetbikes and Angry Dreadnoughts and, well, they aren't likely to shoot at your Firedrakes and Vulkan anytime soon.

...S'all I've got. Hopefully a Sally Bro/Sis/Other comes in to help The list as-is is good enough if your smart with your placement and movement.

[Atia]

thanks slipstreams =) have added a jetbike primus medicae and 4 jetbikers to the list, so i'm now at 3k points

HQ:

- Artellus Numeon, Legion Praetor: Volkite Charger, master crafted Paragon blade, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Mantle of the Eldar Drake - 170 points

- Cassian Dracos - 275 points

- Primus Medicae: Artificer armour, plasma pistol, meltabombs, Jetbike - 160 points

ELITES:

- Apothecary (goes with the Pyroclasts): Volkite charger - 55 points

- Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres assault cannon, CCW with heavy flamer, extra armour - 210 points

TROOPS:

- Firedrake Terminator squad: 10 Terminators, 8 with thunder hammer + stormshield, 1 with thunder hammer and heavy flamer, sergeant with master crafted power weapon + shield - 620 points

- Legion Veteran tactical squad: 10 Marines, legion vexilla, heavy flamer, plasmagun, sergeant with master crafted thunder hammer + infernopistol - 280 points

FAST ATTACK:

- Jetbike sky hunters: 9 Jetbikes, melta bombs, 4 heavy flamers, 1 Multi-Melta, 1 volkite, 1 plasmacanon, 2 heavy bolters, Sergeant with hand flamer - 355 points

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Pyroclast squad: 5 Marines, melta bombs, Sergeant with power fist - 205 points

- Predator: flamestorm cannon, 2 heavy flamers, machine spirit, extra armour - 145 points

LoW:

- Vulkan - 425 points

[Slips]

Man, that jetbike squad will be especially nasty to any and all infantry and probably anything that isn't AV13+

 

Glad to have been of assistance :p

[amazarak]

Good day my friend,

 

Wow, you have Dracos, plus Vulkan, plus a Praetor, plus 10 firedrakes? Yikes! That's around 1500 points of straight up hand to hand fighting right there. Not a bad thing at all, you're just incredibly focused on getting into and winning assaults. I would have imagined a much larger force for 3,000 points but I understand what you are going for. I personally love Dracos, he's an absolute beast. In tandem with 10 firedrakes, a primarch, and a tooled up Praetor, I imagine that much face will be kicked in.

 

I have a couple of quick observations ;

- Your army is slow. You really lack the ability for your most devastating units to get into assault and begin to make their hay. You have a flamer focus (which is cool), but your units will get gun downed piecemeal because only a couple can get anywhere quickly. Grab some rides for your heaviest hitters.

- The veterans are sub-optimal. I mean, I was just looking at them last night trying to find something, anything, that they can do that something else can't do better and cheaper. They make me want to punch myself in the face. This unit, along with Destroyers and assault troops, is over priced. Which is a shame.

- Anti-air. You should get some. Even in the absence of a heavy aircraft meta, the mortis dreads are incredible point values. Even standard dreads, configured as mortis, are groovy.

 

Some things I love with my Salamanders:

- Rapiers. Specifically Thudd guns. At 60 points, you get a T7 2 wound model with 2 crew that is either a (St 5 ap 5 heavy 4 barrage, blast) or (str 8 ap 4 heavy 4 sunder). For 180 points, you are looking at 12 shots at something. Extremely points efficient. 

- Predator Executioners. I know you said no tanks but my poor infernus has underachieved something awful. This baby though shoots 3 str 7 ap 2 blasts a turn at 110 points. For 330, you get a squadron (roughly the cost of your veterans) that shoots 9 str 7 ap 2 3" plasma blasts. You are bringing something great justice with a squadron of these.

- Lightning: You don't see too many lists with these but I like them for one reason, they have tremendous anti-vehicle alpha strike capability. Give them 4 kraken missiles (with missile barrage they can shoot them all) and that's 4 str 8 ap 1 armorbane (2d6 pen) shots up something's pooper. Give the jet tank hunter for some Spartan killing hijinks - clocks in at 200 points and should easily earn back it's points and then some. For that vehicle that absolutely positively must get turned into dangerous terrain, bring this baby.

[Atia]

Thanks for feedback Amazarak!

- Your army is slow. You really lack the ability for your most devastating units to get into assault and begin to make their hay. You have a flamer focus (which is cool), but your units will get gun downed piecemeal because only a couple can get anywhere quickly. Grab some rides for your heaviest hitters.

the problem is, the only 2 rides for a 10 man firedrake squad and vulkan and the praetor are either a Spartan (i have 2 for my deathguard, and want to avoid any others if it's possible >.>) or a Kharybdis

- The veterans are sub-optimal. I mean, I was just looking at them last night trying to find something, anything, that they can do that something else can't do better and cheaper. They make me want to punch myself in the face. This unit, along with Destroyers and assault troops, is over priced. Which is a shame.

i know, but for them counts the rule of cool, i just don't like lame 20 man bolter dudes. Also this are Firedrakes in PA in the fluff, and i need them for compulsatory troop choices

- Anti-air. You should get some. Even in the absence of a heavy aircraft meta, the mortis dreads are incredible point values. Even standard dreads, configured as mortis, are groovy.

a castraferrum mortis would be cool, as i love dreads, but i would need 135 points for a autocannon dread

- Predator Executioners. I know you said no tanks but my poor infernus has underachieved something awful. This baby though shoots 3 str 7 ap 2 blasts a turn at 110 points. For 330, you get a squadron (roughly the cost of your veterans) that shoots 9 str 7 ap 2 3" plasma blasts. You are bringing something great justice with a squadron of these.

atleast swapping the infernus with an executioner doesn't sound bad and will be keeping with the salamanders fluff (plasma is the purest bad-ass fire )

@Lightning: i have one for my DG, and want to avoid to duplicate the big tanks/fliers in my HH forces (atleast until i have small forces from every legion >.<)

i'll consider your suggestions and try to write a list update (or maybe just a 500 points update to 3,5k >.>)

[Kor'Vesh]

Hey Atia,

 

That is a very thematic list, and I like it a lot. There are some issues of playability though, mostly tied to unit delivery and tank busting.

 

In the original list, the jetbikes are your main source of mobility, and I think a really good addition. I love that you are going to run them with Heavy flamers, and the results could be awesome. You'll certainly produce some great models for them. I think you need to add a sixth member to this squad though, for a second multimelta - this gives you a touch more anti-tank fire power with this unit.

 

I'd consider swapping your normal contemptor for a mortis too - amazarak is right about the need for air cover. Twin-lascannons might fill another gap in ranged anti-tank, and let you remove enemy air support, but I think any mortis would be more useful to this list, just to boost your ranged fire support.

 

The flamestorm predator is a great looking model, and I really want one. The problem is, it sucks for the points. I'd struggle to swap a 4 shot autocannon on a tank for a flamestrom cannon for free, let alone paying points for it. You then need the machine spirit so that you can be mobile enough to fire it. If you want to stay fluffy and use the infernus model, I think the magna-melta (though still stupidly pricey) might be more effective. Its really just a variant (overpriced) vindicator, but it would be more threatening overall. Ideally though you'd probably swap for an executioner (I'm taking one of these) - much better value and threat, as amazarak says, though not helping hugely versus armour.

 

I think you should tailor your veteran squad for a specific role, depending on the special rule you are planning to take. If you want them holding base objectives I'd go with ranged fire power and sniper, or you could take outflank to increase your early game threats with heavy flamers or meltas.

 

Finally, consider how you will get your firedrakes and pyroclasts into the fight. Anyone who tells you not to get a spartan is daft. It would deliver a beast of a unit, and your primarch where you need them, along with some nice ranged AT fire power. However, I know you don't really want another one to paint and build, so fair enough. You could consider 2 5 man firedrake squads - this might increase the number of targets you can threaten, and reduce the enemies chance of avoiding them completely. Stick Vulkan in one and Numeon in another, or buy one unit a Phobos. This would be more expensive of course. Another option, which is a bit left field, could be buying a proteus for your Pyroclasts - give it an explorator web, lose the apotecary and stick vulkan in there with them. This would give your enemy a scouting primarch to worry about, buy you a couple more lascannons and deliver your pyros somewhere useful. It would risk vulkan, but that risk might help you deliver the 10 man beatstick of the firedrakes into combat.

 

I think you need some more opinions on delivering your units though, or it would be good to hear your plans for how the army will work. At very least you need one more unit that will be in the enemy's face and causing them problems early in the game. Either landraider option, a spartan or, at a push outflanking vets would do this.

 

Regardless of all this, I'm hugely excited to see this army grow - I know it will look great! I'll be luck to have a 1000 army by the end of the year, while I know this beastie will be ready in months and look awesome!

[Atia]

@Kor'Vesh: thanks for the feedback may i name my Firedrakes Sergeant after you ?

I have added another 500 points to the list, a contemptor mortis and a Spartan (i'll shift my 2nd DG Spartan to the 'manders ) and changed the Predator to a Executioner.

Firedrakes - Realm of Hesiod: 3500 points

HQ:

- Artellus Numeon, Legion Praetor: Volkite Charger, master crafted Paragon blade, Dragonscale Storm Shield, Mantle of the Eldar Drake - 170 points

- Cassian Dracos - 275 points

- Primus Medicae (goes with the Jetbikers): Plasma pistol, Jetbike - 145 points

ELITES:

- Apothecary (goes with the Pyroclasts): Volkite charger - 55 points

- Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres assault cannon, CCW with heavy flamer - 200 points

- Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought: 2 twin-linked lascannons, havoc launcher - 200 points

TROOPS:

- Firedrake Terminator squad: 10 Terminators, 8 with thunder hammer + stormshield, 1 with thunder hammer and heavy flamer, sergeant with master crafted power weapon + shield - 620 points

- Legion Veteran tactical squad: 10 Marines, legion vexilla, heavy flamer, plasmagun, sergeant with thunder hammer + infernopistol - 275 points

FAST ATTACK:

- Jetbike sky hunters: 9 Jetbikes, melta bombs, 4 heavy flamers, 1 Multi-Melta, 1 volkite, 1 plasmacanon, 2 heavy bolters, Sergeant with hand flamer - 355 points

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Pyroclast squad: 5 Marines, melta bombs, Sergeant with power fist - 205 points

- Predator: executioner plasma destroyer, 2 heavy flamers, armoured ceramite, extra armour - 160 points

- Spartan Assault Tank (for the Firedrakes, Vulkan and the Praetor): twin-linked heavy flamer, armoured ceramite - 315 points

LoW:

- Vulkan - 425 points

what do you guys think?^^

[Slips]

Well, it looks even more painful now; due to the Spartan. Anything Blob or Horde will loathe facing off against a Flamer Heavy list such as this, thats for sure.

When you next add another 500 points, get 2 LR Proteus for your Pyros and Tac Vets. Hopefully at 4k you wont get any AirCav lists since a Lone Contemptor-Mortis will have a hard time and be relatively easy pickings

Other than that, s'all good for now. Unless you find another HQ Slot for a TDA Primus (or swap the Jetbike for TDA) for the Firedrakes and Vulkan /cheeseitup

[Atia]

hehe^^ so, this may be the final list, as i want to do them as fast as possible (vulkan will be safed for ETL alongside my reaver, but i want to finish the other stuff in ~4 months :P)

[Slips]

Totally doable, if you aren't me (which you aren't or this would be really weird); especially at your current pace :P

[Kor'Vesh]

Just adding the Spartan gives your list the huge boost it needs - even better that you are taking it from the Death Guard

I can't wait to see your list built Atia. I might get my first little 1k (plus the big V) list all ready by the time you finish your 3.5K! You never know. And, clearly, it would be an honour to have a thunderhammer toting Firedrake sergant named after me.

I was originally planning to make the dead Death Guard I painted on the scenic base of Vulkan a member of your company, but then I realised that it really isn't quite such an honour, is it? If these look as good as I expect though I'm sure I can work your name into my slowly growing force, in honour of your inspirational painting exploits (A'Tia - Ation ?). Poor old Slipstreams' name just doesn't lend itself to Salamandification though!

[Slips]

My choice of username is bad for anything barring Aircraft Wing Squadron Designations and even then its pretty lame :p

 

I've been thinking of changing it to reflect my Penchant for the VIIth and the Medicae side of the Astartes (WHY FORGEWORLD!?! WHY CANT I TAKE PRIMUS MEDICAE AS MY COMPULSORY HQ ANYMORE!?!??!) But I'm not sure I like the sound of Primus Medicae DuSept (french for Of the Seventh).

[Hesh Kadesh]

'Ol Sawbones' Du Sept, slipstreams? Or 'The Sanitater' or whatever pseudosuperhero name translated into German works for you XD

 

Atia, although expensive, have you considered picking up either Cataphractii Armour (if going with the Firedrakes, you can't Overwatch anyway, even though you aren't yourself wearing it), or an Iron Halo for 2+/3++ Eternal Warrior? Dropping a few more Thunder Hammers for Powerfists in the Firedrakes gives them a few more at Initiative attacks to try and kill enemy powerfists or axes.

[Atia]

Atia, although expensive, have you considered picking up either Cataphractii Armour (if going with the Firedrakes, you can't Overwatch anyway, even though you aren't yourself wearing it), or an Iron Halo for 2+/3++ Eternal Warrior? Dropping a few more Thunder Hammers for Powerfists in the Firedrakes gives them a few more at Initiative attacks to try and kill enemy powerfists or axes.

problem is, my praetor is built an haven't any place for an iron halo wysiwyg and so same thing with the firedrakes, they are assembled already^^ but thanks for the tip :>

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Haha im in ur thred steelin ur listz!

 

Ha I jest, I like your list. I will be taking it into consideration when I build up my fluffy Legion battle-company.