Kasper_Hawser Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Hi everyone. I've had a few games with daemon over the year, and it has became increasingly harder to beat them. Most of the time, I'm completely baffled by all of the random daemonic gifts many of their characters and monsters seem to have. Top it off which whatever power goes off at the time, and it's damn hard for me to keep check on who has FnP, Eternal Warrior, Iron Arm, whips and what not... at least when fighting most of other armies, it's easy to tell via WYSIWIG what the opponent is having without having to consult a long roll of rewards. I just want to know if any of you have a system of keeping track of buffs of daemons. I guess this will apply to other armies, but no other race except maybe eldar have a ton of random gifts. Otherwise I'll have to take a notepad and physically write down which daemon has what on paper. My opponent somehow manages to memorize whatever he has and doesn't write it down. Though come to think of it, this means I have no way of double checking whether what he says is true or not. Come to think of it, last game he had suspiciously good powers on his 2 daemon princes: Iron Arm and the FNP4+ Eternal warrior spell, while fielding Be'lakor who of course knows all Telepathy. Wait a bloody minute, isn't Be'lakor actually CSM HQ? Because I'm pretty sure he had no CSM units on the tables, only 1 Keeper of Secrets, 2 daemon princes, horrors and daemonettes, no CSM troops. Or can he actually include Be'lakor as part of his Daemon list without the compulsory troops? Anyway, in addition to giving me a headache of remembering all the random buffs, my main mistake last game was not having a rune priest for divination buff to my Long Fangs. My normal list actually doesn't have anti air at all, which in this game cost me dearly as I had little accuracy to stop 3 flying Daamon princes coming at me. Not to mention his rolls were hot, he kept on casting the 4+ FNP, and the warp storm table actually bumped his invuln saves to 4+. Not a good game for Bjorn. I thought he would have a tough time hurting Bjorn thanks to being AV13 unless he wants to smash, but guess what? 2 of his Daemon princes got Iron Arm! Needless to say Bjorn got stomped by a super daemon that was also invisible courtesy of Be'lakor. Sucks..... First game of 2015 (actually had it right after 12am) and I got stomped. Your thoughts on how to more efficiently battle daemons without resorting to Stormfangs and super expensive Flakk missiles? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bela'kor is CSM and CD. As for the buffs, I guess it comes down to practice. I play Daemons every once in a while using a friends army, so I know what the gig is. There two ways you can track buffs though, before you get used to it. First, ask your opponent to use psychic cards and put them next to the model. If he doesn't own any, you might get your own. Second, have a notebook next to you and keep notes who has got what. A friend of mine has given every Herald and MC of his a randomly generated name, so he himself can track what is going on. Finally, read the Daemons codex a few times. It'll help ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3906879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyemor Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Against Daemons I find that massed fire works best for me, over and above hugely points expensive models. I would take an extra unit of Grey Hunters (if I had the models) over and above Bjorn. 10 rapid firing bolters will often take out a Daemon Prince in CC so long as he doesn't have the FNP on the unit :)If you are going to use Dreadnaughts to try and counter the Daemon Princes, stick them in difficult terrain so that if they do manage to get a charge off against you, you will at least strike first with your Str 10 CC weapon. Even if he has FNP, he only has to fail one save in order for him to die. Land Speeders with double heavy flamers are also very nice. Packs of 2 will put the hurt on any ground based guys trying to teleport in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3906899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bela'kor isnt in the CSM codex at all, he is strictly daemons, and last time I read the CD codex I seem to remember that if you took him Daemon Princes could be HQ or heavy support. As for remembering who has what, a note pad is defiantly worth having. I take one to most games, even if just to keep track of victory points. Another simple way to remember is to rip a page out of your note book, then rip that into smaller pieces, write all a daemons buffs on one piece and put that on their base. You can also add to that when a spell is cast on them and cross it out when it runs out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3906904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bela'kor is a Dataslate for 40k and Fantasy. In 40k both CD and CSM can access him. He is not in codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3906967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Let him either use Tokens or Psycards. There are several cheap ways. Arjac is good vs Princes. Also Allied Inquisition like Coteaz is a good cheap hell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loganwolf Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Tricky to play against. Esp if they run a summoning list Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Tricky to play against. Esp if they run a summoning list Hm, I do not find summoning lists that threatening, because they do no damage. They just summon stuff. FMC biomancy and telepathy spam is more threatening in my eyes and harder to track. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bela'kor is a Dataslate for 40k and Fantasy. In 40k both CD and CSM can access him. He is not in codex. I stand corrected. What is it that means CD can take daemon princes as Heavy Support then? Or are they just in Heavy Support anyway? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Bela'kor is a Dataslate for 40k and Fantasy. In 40k both CD and CSM can access him. He is not in codex. I stand corrected. What is it that means CD can take daemon princes as Heavy Support then? Or are they just in Heavy Support anyway? If you take a Greater Daemon as HQ, you can choose Daemon Princes of the same god as HS. For example, you have Fateweaver (who is a greater Daemon of Tzeentch) as HQ, you can choose Tzeentch Princes as HS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont really know Demons and have to ask: Since conjuration powers arive via deepstrike does Coteaz special rule lets you shoot at every one within his 12"? Cause that would be a good counter with him being in a shooty TDA Unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skallagoose Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 daemons, especially the DP, don't have the toughness of other MCs. T 5 isn't that high and means that blotters would 1/3 of the time. depending on the build of the dp they may only have a 5+ invul. Against Be'lakor… well there isn't much you can do to really hurt him. Impact hits from wolves auto-hit tho… So invisibility doesn't really impact that. I would suggest targeting one FMC each turn. Even if they are flying they aren't *THAT* survivable. If he is rolling biomancy then there is a chance of getting Iron Arm and Endurance… I know a lot of people at my FLGS were getting mad that i kept rolling endurance on my wolves… Only thing you can do is PRAY they don't get it off, or that you throw ALL your dice at it to prevent it. Its rough but it is a dice game, which means that a lot of the time it comes down to chance Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3907739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 I guess if I'm going non anti air, will just have to rely on Long Fang Spam to get them down. Thanks for your advices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3909706 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 if you play against flying monstrous creatures i highly recomment a bunker for the long fangs and a quad gun . the quad gun is skyfire, interceptor is s7 has 4 shots and is twinlinked. i think this the optimum solution since it makes your LF save ( the ancient can use it using splitfire) and gives a great weapon against your flying problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3909728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Also, if I'm not mistaken, all you have to do is hit and it forces a grounding test. Some (un)lucky rolls and the DP burns in and takes a wound. Luckier for you if you actually wound the prince before he burns in. Throw dakka at it and it will die. The big daemon player in my meta can't seem to keep his daemons alive. The only one he seems to win against with them is the blood angels player, and mostly because the BA guy is running an assault heavy list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3909768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 if you play against flying monstrous creatures i highly recomment a bunker for the long fangs and a quad gun . the quad gun is skyfire, interceptor is s7 has 4 shots and is twinlinked. i think this the optimum solution since it makes your LF save ( the ancient can use it using splitfire) and gives a great weapon against your flying problem. may be worth getting ulrik to shoot that gun, or at least sit in the bunker Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3909781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 if you play against flying monstrous creatures i highly recomment a bunker for the long fangs and a quad gun . the quad gun is skyfire, interceptor is s7 has 4 shots and is twinlinked. i think this the optimum solution since it makes your LF save ( the ancient can use it using splitfire) and gives a great weapon against your flying problem. may be worth getting ulrik to shoot that gun, or at least sit in the bunker Nah i think ulrik for that is wasted. If you pref enemy than take normal WolfPriest and choose MC for pref Enemy. The Bubble is way better used elswhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3909955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He has monster hunter and preferred enemy, slap a predator down beside to better utilize the buff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3910320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 An Idea for that Bunker is to set a pack of snipers on top with camocloaks for a 2+ cover and support. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301336-fighting-daemons/#findComment-3910578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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