Drop pods for Chaos?

[Hiskrtapps]

Are there dedicated transports for World Eaters that act like drop pods?

for helbrute, chosen or CSM troop (think about a CSM troop with MoK for example)

[Prot]

I'm thinking of trying one Dreadclaw for my Crimson Slaughter. The kit looks really basic.

[Kilofix]

I'm thinking of trying one Dreadclaw for my Crimson Slaughter. The kit looks really basic.

It's mostly the regular Drop Pod kit with a different base and fins.

[the jeske]

 

 

dreadclaw is an assault vehicle for an assault army.

and it's exactly what chaos needed.

 

The wrong thing is trying to compare it with drop pod that is a completely different unit for a completely different purpose.

Evaluate dreadclaw for what it is.

 

Dropping one unit off, and then being little more then a glorified drop pod...meh. I'll take a normal pod any day of the week, a million times over.

After dropping a unit off they become sort of a flying Hellhound; Flying AV12 on all sides, can Jink and still use its S5 AP5 Ignores Cover Heat Blast.

 

Which chaos unit set up are cheap enough and fast enough in melee or shoty enough to not require redeployment[on top of the down time any transport coming out of reservs without drop pod assault has] or failing being cheap, which death star is treat enough to be run in a reserved transport to work.

 

Could some examples of such units be posted?

[Henderson85]

If you only take 1, it doesn't go into reserves. It comes in on turn 1. So basically anything you throw in it will be able to assault turn 2, and there are multiple examples of units in the codex that would LOVE to assault on turn two without the opponent having a chance to shoot at them.

 

They are too expensive to spam, but 1 can be of value to certain lists.

[McGibs]

They basically make any power-armoured assault troops viable. Berserkers, chosen, noise marines, gritty CSM, all are better units because of the dreadclaw. The only other options are to foot slog them (get shot to pieces), infiltrate them (requires special HQ), rhino rush (also get shot to pieces), or landraider (expensive as hell)

[Sn4k30r]

i find dreadclaw very cool, extra transport for csm is always welcome i think, dont compare it with loyalist drop pods, cause its not the same 3x times the cost, plus the lack of guidance system..... but look the good stuff  fast attack, slotless for troops CSM, and chosens, stick on that.,..

 

There are many reasons i think chaos dont have "basic" drop pods, imagine Plague marines come in your face turn 1, with t5 fnp and 2x specials, and everyone covers-2A its a problem for the opponnent., thats the reason some things are overcosted in CSM codex- or FW...

[Slave to Darkness]

 imagine Plague marines come in your face turn 1, with t5 fnp and 2x specials, and everyone covers-2A its a problem for the opponnent.,

Yep, Imagined, what your problem ;) :P sounds great to me. 

[Kilofix]

Dreadclaw DOES allow you to drop 10 Plague Marines with 2 Specials in your opponents face on Turn 1 - as long as you're gutsy enough to accept some Deep Strike randomness.

 

Btw, on a separate but related note - the Kharybdis DOES have Inertial Guidance. Its a whole lot more expensive - but its 20 models on Turn 1 w/scatter mitigation. Plus it also has more guns / launchers.

[Cheex]

 

 

Thats why you put them on the ground like a pod.

There is no rule allowing you to remove the flight stand from a flyer during movement.

That's not to say you can't play otherwise, just be aware that it's not how the rules are written.

A lot of people take flyers off their flying bases when they are in Hover mode.

That doesn't actually make it right to do, though.

 

Those people are playing using house rules, nothing more.

[Sn4k30r]

Dreadclaw DOES allow you to drop 10 Plague Marines with 2 Specials in your opponents face on Turn 1 - as long as you're gutsy enough to accept some Deep Strike randomness.

 

Btw, on a separate but related note - the Kharybdis DOES have Inertial Guidance. Its a whole lot more expensive - but its 20 models on Turn 1 w/scatter mitigation. Plus it also has more guns / launchers.

 

yes dreadclaw cause 3x times of a normal SM drop pod, and still is random drop, and you lose the dedicated if you buy plague marines instead normal CSM and chosen( i prefer chosen if you go for it in black legion likely for troops plus 4x special and 1xcombi more damage)

 

i dont think it is worthy the Kharybdis for mainly two reasons : 1st) too much overcosted,    2nd) heavy slot,.....       maybe is only me , but i think many people will agree with this one.

[Kilofix]

 

Dreadclaw DOES allow you to drop 10 Plague Marines with 2 Specials in your opponents face on Turn 1 - as long as you're gutsy enough to accept some Deep Strike randomness.

 

Btw, on a separate but related note - the Kharybdis DOES have Inertial Guidance. Its a whole lot more expensive - but its 20 models on Turn 1 w/scatter mitigation. Plus it also has more guns / launchers.

 

 

yes dreadclaw cause 3x times of a normal SM drop pod, and still is random drop, and you lose the dedicated if you buy plague marines instead normal CSM and chosen( i prefer chosen if you go for it in black legion likely for troops plus 4x special and 1xcombi more damage)

 

i dont think it is worthy the Kharybdis for mainly two reasons : 1st) too much overcosted,    2nd) heavy slot,.....       maybe is only me , but i think many people will agree with this one.

Yeah it is expensive at the cost of slightly more than a Land Raider Crusader but it is still funny when, in Turn 1, you land by an IG Tank park and hit everything within 6" with a Str 6 AP5 hit, Ignores Cover, and to vehicles's Rear Armor. Then in Turn 2, Khârn and 19 CSM with double CC, Rage and Furious Charge pour out along with an additional 10 Str 6 TwinLinked Pinning shots from the Claw.

[McGibs]

If youre going to buy a chaos landraider, Khyribdis seems like a better option for the same role. Trades durability for much more utility, and gets more boots on the ground much faster.

[Warsmith Aznable]

 

 

 

Thats why you put them on the ground like a pod.

There is no rule allowing you to remove the flight stand from a flyer during movement.

That's not to say you can't play otherwise, just be aware that it's not how the rules are written.

A lot of people take flyers off their flying bases when they are in Hover mode.

That doesn't actually make it right to do, though.

 

Those people are playing using house rules, nothing more.

Never really thought of it as a house rule, though I guess technically it would be. It's one of those things that I've never seen anyone do differently and never questioned why or how. An unwritten convention, more than anything hashed out in advance.

[Wrath of Humanity]

 

 

 

Thats why you put them on the ground like a pod.

There is no rule allowing you to remove the flight stand from a flyer during movement.

That's not to say you can't play otherwise, just be aware that it's not how the rules are written.

A lot of people take flyers off their flying bases when they are in Hover mode.I

That doesn't actually make it right to do, though.

 

Those people are playing using house rules, nothing more.

 

I agree, i asked if i could use the dreadclaw for my 30x khorne berserkers when i was at the games workshop store ( only place where i can play), and they didn't let me play there since it was "forge world" rules. 

[Sn4k30r]

Wrath of Humanity,

i have some questions and answers for you, :

1) Dreadclaw transport capacity is 10 models, and 20 has the Kharybdis. unless you mean 3x for your Khorne berzerkers.

2) If you played a friendly match you must your ask your oppoent if he is ok with using forgeworld, so you can continue ("friendly"), if it was a tournament was it clear no FW?

ΒUT otherwise you "CAN" use it without any questions cause this : Every unit in FW books containing the 40.000 mark, says this:This unit is intended to be used in 40.000 standart games of Warhammer 40.000, within the usual selection and FOC charts. As with all our models these should be considered official but, as they may be unknown to your opponent, It's best to make sure they are happy to play a FW models before you start.

so get them REKT baby with legality rules.! even if GW store!

[Prot]

Dreadclaw DOES allow you to drop 10 Plague Marines with 2 Specials in your opponents face on Turn 1 - as long as you're gutsy enough to accept some Deep Strike randomness.

 

Btw, on a separate but related note - the Kharybdis DOES have Inertial Guidance. Its a whole lot more expensive - but its 20 models on Turn 1 w/scatter mitigation. Plus it also has more guns / launchers.

 

- Me and a buddy were having a very lengthy debate on using these things, and this did come up. The Kharybdis does have Inertial Guidance.

 

Part of our debate was the strange wording in the rule book which he thinks allows you to deep strike over other models and just subtract the distance. The reason he debates this is because the rules in the rulebook say if a Flyer (which is what a Dreadclaw is) is 'forced' to move over other models, just simply subtract the distance.  He argues that this is benefits a Dreadclaw. 

 

Personally I think it's just GW poor rule writing on that since we both can't figure out how a flyer would run into this? Perhaps Vector Locked? I don't know but since that happens in the movement phase I see no way a Dreadclaw can avoid the misshap.

 

 

I agree, i asked if i could use the dreadclaw for my 30x khorne berserkers when i was at the games workshop store ( only place where i can play), and they didn't let me play there since it was "forge world" rules. 

 

 

 

 

We've had this discussion a lot locally. Basically if you are talking about using a legal Forgeworld item, no one can deny you that. The official stuff... is... official.

 

That being said I'm the one in favour of trying to use a dreadclaw. But I can't see it working. Just as most have mentioned... way too expensive, too limited in application.

[Ishagu]

Chaos shouldn't have Drop Pods.

 

They shouldn't be the same as Loyalists, and have other unique models.

[Chaeron]

Chaos shouldn't have Drop Pods.

 

They shouldn't be the same as Loyalists, and have other unique models.

 

Why not? Rarer, perhaps - there's no reason why they shouldn't. Appears regularly in 40k Chaos based literature...

 

A Rhino STC chassis, a Land Raider and Drop Pods isn't a great deal of cross-over generally. Even Bikes are suitably differentiated...

[Kabbala]

Here's my simple solution: ask your opponent if you can. We have house ruled that CSM can use the drop pod, it just makes sense to us that they should be able.

[Noctem Cultor]

With the HH and IA books allowing Chaos to use drop pods I can see the next codex including them for same prices as loyalists.

[Cheex]

- Me and a buddy were having a very lengthy debate on using these things, and this did come up. The Kharybdis does have Inertial Guidance.

 

Part of our debate was the strange wording in the rule book which he thinks allows you to deep strike over other models and just subtract the distance. The reason he debates this is because the rules in the rulebook say if a Flyer (which is what a Dreadclaw is) is 'forced' to move over other models, just simply subtract the distance.  He argues that this is benefits a Dreadclaw. 

 

Personally I think it's just GW poor rule writing on that since we both can't figure out how a flyer would run into this? Perhaps Vector Locked? I don't know but since that happens in the movement phase I see no way a Dreadclaw can avoid the misshap.

The rules for flyers reducing their moves only applies to actual movement. Deep striking units do not count as having moved until the shooting phase, so scattering onto a model is still a mishap.

  

We've had this discussion a lot locally. Basically if you are talking about using a legal Forgeworld item, no one can deny you that. The official stuff... is... official.

Your opponent has every right to refuse to play you if he or she doesn't want to face FW items. It strikes me as, perhaps, unadventurous, but you can't force someone to accept a game against something just because it's "official".

[Prot]

Chaos shouldn't have Drop Pods.

 

They shouldn't be the same as Loyalists, and have other unique models.

 

Sorry but that's like saying they shouldn't have Rhino's. Some of the fundamentals are basically the same and always should be, even with a twist: Bolters, Rhino's, drop pods, power armour. These are the nuts and bolts of any 'space marine' loyal or otherwise.

 

Put a twist on the Drop Pod? Sure. But I think background wise there's every indication that every chaos chapter uses these units.

 

I still think Chaos doesn't get normal Drop Pods because the army might jump the scale on the table too much. Right now Marines can use Pods to great effect because they are cheap, and effectively help their 12" shooting and specialized shooting. But assault? It's not really a practical way to build a loyalist force.

 

Now give those same pods to Chaos. You have overall better assault units, better assault HQ's, plus you bring back Daemon Bombing. It would -instantly- make quite a few 'bumb' units for Chaos usable. The advantage of cheap, Obsec pods that won't misshap and are first turn guaranteed... well I just feel strong that that would change Chaos like the flick of a switch.

 

Playing both armies as often as I do, I can't tell you how many times I wonder what I could do with a chaos assault army with 4-5 'loyalist' pods.

 

 

 

 

We've had this discussion a lot locally. Basically if you are talking about using a legal Forgeworld item, no one can deny you that. The official stuff... is... official.

Your opponent has every right to refuse to play you if he or she doesn't want to face FW items. It strikes me as, perhaps, unadventurous, but you can't force someone to accept a game against something just because it's "official".

 

 

This is such a weird thing to say.... Of course -anyone- can refuse to do -anything-. That's not even close to what I was implying....

 

If you want to play checkers with me, and I refuse to let you use black or red checkers, that's my right. Asinine? you bet. But still my right.

 

I think where we were going with the Forgeworld discussion is that it's not like the old days where everything was experimental. There's a lot of content with 'official' stamped all over it, and it makes the tournament scene and there's not a lot someone can do about it, unless they just want to pack their junk up and go home and play with their little brothers in granny' s basement.

 

This has been brought to my attention by other people on this forum, as well as locally. It only makes sense. Forgeworld had to be brought into the 'officlal' fold or else it was always relegated to 'fun' games.

 

I didn't meant to imply that I think a person should be forced to do anything they don't want to in life. I think that's beyond the scope of this particular conversation. But much of Forgeworld IS official in 40k now.

[Teetengee]

I would be perfectly happy with non obsec drop pods that were like the loyalist variety. We can potentially get more use out of them so giving up obsec wouldnt be huge. (It might make the khorne butcherhorde playable for instance)

[Warsmith Aznable]

My issue with Dreadclaws has always been 1. no scatter help; 2. turn 3 assault at the soonest.

 

Assault units get expensive, then add the boat cost, then risk losing it all to unlucky dice or a packed LZ, then (if everything has gone right up to this point) have your key unit effectively miss half the game.

 

I haven't tried the IA13 version yet, but clearly the design team has struggled over the years to find a way to make the model work. Maybe this is it, I'm willing to try it again. I just need to get the right game to test it in.