Lagrath Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 So I am fairly confident that we will see a new Chaos codex in Q4 2015 at the latest. I may be wrong if they decide to keep the codex and just start publishing some supplements + new minis instead, which is also possible. But I expect new codex + big supplement + new campaign boxes, like other releases. However, I am worried that the codex will get even worse. So I wanted to ask everyone what your EXPECTATIONS are, based on recent rends (not your wishlist!) Personally, I suspect: -Maulerfiends will get worse, because it's one of the few good things in the codex and we know how much GW loves to nerf what was good before so that you have to buy new stuff! -Not many new units, along the lines of GK and BA and probably Necrons -Sadly, no more options to take cult units as troops, because they totally 180'd on that being their design approach for a bunch of codexes before eliminating it again for some reason halfway through the recent revamps -Some change to the Heldrake, since it is now overpriced and GW has FAQ'd it twice + the new changes to vector strike in 7th being worse. I expect a minor points drop. -Some changes to the Chaos troops section, since there are only two options and they are probably not selling a lot of normal Chaos marines and the options are pretty bland. Perhaps another points drop. -Some new formations for different Cult troops, but without objective secured -Whole new relics table and new Warlord table -Simplifcation of the Chaos boons table to look more like the basic table in the Glottkin book -Some relics or other options to interact with the new Malefic stuff like summoning -Perhaps some changes to different banners -Perhaps some points drops on a few random units, just because all other codexes have had price decreases. However, GW may decide to screw Chaos and leave us with the current points (though I doubt much other than the maulerfiend would go up in cost) Anyone else have ideas on what might be LIKELY to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm pretty sure your fears are well founded...if they actually show some brass balls and stick to the 7th edition format. 1. Our SC's will stick around, even Fabius... 2. FoC shifting, dead and gone. Troops will be CSM and Cultists. Cult Marine armies will be so much dust in the wind...if anyone but Death Guard even run cult armies. 3. Boon table, I think (hope, the first step on the road to disappointment) will go, with Forced Challenges. I think its even possible our 'Army Rule' will be Marks...if anything I expect a huge simplification. 4. Some modifications to the Warlords table I'm sure, and the Relics table. Is anything but the Brand or Mace even a thing at this point? 5. Warp Talons buffed. 7th = streamlined. The depth comes from Detachments and Formations. I expect those allow for Cult lists ala the Coven book (which I love btw) and going from there. I really hope it comes soon, but honestly my apathy toward 'Codex' CSM is terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 That's one thing I forgot to mention. I think it's confusing that Mark of Nurgle only gives +T, not FNP. So you have a Mark of Nurgle warlord who unlocks Plague Marine troops currently, but the PMs get FNP and he doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if they make some changes to how Marks work and what exactly they do. I also wonder if they will allow you (or require you) to turn the daemonic vehicles into vehicles of a particular deity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont think they are big on forcing much these days, but I would KILL for Marked lords rules to match Cult Marines. Just find the target of my attention, and I swear, it will be done. If they do ONE KHORNE CURSED THING FOR ME. Give me Marked Lords matching Cult units.... EDIT: Cult Terminators, two things, so sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I doubt we will get cult terminators, because they don't make kits for it. However, maybe we would get a new Chaos Terminator kit with modeling options for cult troops, but I doubt it, because that would be too many bits. I suspect they will stick with marks for terminators. Sadly, I expect few changes to any of the units, other than some points drops. Mostly I think it will be 1-2 new units or kits, and then changes to army-wide rules and items. then some supplements to milk more cash. This would be in line with other recent releases. I think maybe we would get Greater Daemons in the codex again so as to sell new GD kits, if GW has made some. That would align with them selling some really huge models with some of their releases. i forgot one other thing I noticed in the Glottkin book: when you get a daemon prince from the boons table in that book, you keep all the upgrades from the thing that turned into a daemon prince, or most of them. So I think that will get changed in the CSM codex as well (finally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrack Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I could see legion specific formations in the new codex or more likely, the special edition supplement that comes out on the same date, similar to space puppies. Abaddon moving into The Lord of War slot like many of the new Codexes top dogs seems a likely change. It seems that in the past, units with models that don't see much use / sales get some kind of buff or point reduction but this hasn't always happened with chaos. For example, T Sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yeah, the only way I see any rules push, is new kits at this point. Mauler is decent, Drake was our crutch for...a short while, but nothing else of value really came out. Mut/Oblit dual kit finally? Would be about the most logical thing they could do. Updated Cult Sets? I can see a few happening, with a rules (Supplement/Formation) push. Thousand Sons would be an obvious one there unless they line up with the 30K Prospero releases (I still think that the HH books doomed our codex....) A dual Mut/Oblit kit, a new CSM box (and cheaper/better CSM rules) ala the Tactical Box, and 1kSons + Day One Supplement/Formation book...yeah I can buy that. +1 to Abby as LoW, again a given I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGibs Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think chaos are one of the few armies left that have a wealth of long-in-the-tooth models. Pretty much every core model, CSM, terminators, cult troops, lords, sorcerers, bikes, obliterators, spawn, princes. With the updates that recent armies in have gotten, I would be VERY surprised if we didn't see a new CSM kit and at least a few dual kits for terminators/lHQ/oblits, and/or cult troops (especially seeing the new verminlord kits, where 5 different "faction" aesthetics are crammed into one kit). I figure the general look of the army will go even farther down the mutated road, given the newer chaos kits. Codex wise, I'd guess a simplification of chaos-boons, probably a redesign of marks (either new effects, or chapter-tactics style rules, but on a unit by unit basis), some new weapon type gimmick to be in line with grav/helfrost/blooddarkwhatever that seems to be the differing factor for marine books. New kits will probably define some new unit type, removing others. Like big mutated terminators that replace/absorb terminators and/or obliterators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I have zero expectations and will make my mind up if and when one is released. Instead I will use the things that are actually available and current rather than mull over what could be. There are still other Codex which haven't been updated so I wouldn't get your hopes up for 2015. Use what you have in the current dex, BL & CS suppliments, data sheets, and IA13. Add allies if you want to vary things but I wouldn't waste time on the "what if". Life's too short for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Chaos will be the oldest mainstream codex after Necrons are released later this month. GW released 6 codexes not counting extra stuff in 2014. Even if GW releases a new army or two, I would be shocked if they didn't reach CSM by December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The only expectation I have is that the Chaos community will do what it does best: create a general uproar. As to whether that is good or bad would depend on who is leading the uproar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 reasonable expectation is that everything will be worse than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I would be shocked if they didn't reach CSM by December. I'd be shocked if they did do CSM this year. Yes the main dex is as old as 6th ed rules but there have been two suppliments since with CS only being last year. And with the rumours of Ad Mech and Harlequins gaining Codex's I honestly can't see much of an overhaul in the year. And it sounds like 2015 is going to be Fantasy heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 What would I like? 1) Legion Tactics working much the same way as C:SM Chapter Tactics could be interesting, and would if done right easily allow for the kind of FOC shenanigans you'd expect (Plague Marines count as troops in a Death Guard detachment etc). You could represent anything from grizzled Word Bearers to recent renegades with this. This would conflict with the Black Legion supplement though, and I am not sure anyone would appreciate having Codex Black Legion and Supplement Black Legion work as separate armies. Unless they drop support for the Black Legion supplement, since it's made for the 6th-edition codex anyway. For all we know a new CSM Codex might not even include VotLW. 2) Plastic cultists, in boxes of 20, with all the options. 3) A new transport option. A functional Dreadclaw, or perhaps a multi-purpose flyer kit like the Stormfang/Stormclaw. Or just a new Chaos-specific Land Raider variant or two, less overhead that way. A hilarious, if gimmicky option would be a Land Raider that could only fit one astartes (Dark Apostle *cough*), but had enough cramped slave stalls to fit like 20 cultists. 4) Better secondary HQ options. Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths should both be competent choices. Apostles at least should have all the options like bike, steed, jump pack or TDA. 5) Finecast this, Finecast that... give me plastic HQ kits like the awesome ones the loyalists received in recent years. A Dark Apostle kit with the same level of detail as the plastic SM Librarian? Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think GW will either do what they did to GK and give us little to no new kits but release a couple new kits for our troop models ala GK. OR they do I full, 5th edition Dark Eldar style overhaul and completely revamp us because of all our old models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 No codex in 2015 please, I've only recently got mine! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I intend to aim low: and hence never be disappointed. Thank you Dodgeball for those pearls of wisdom! That said: rumours of them feeling all Codexes are then 'balanced' even if released under 6th continues to permeate. Unsure whether I like that - it's just whether a rerelease could break us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 In all honesty, I have almost no idea what GW will do to the Chaos Marine codex. There are a load of potential ways that they could go. Whether we see the Cult units move permanently to Elites (and see alternate FoC / Formations to allow Cult armies) or whether we'll see a Chapter Tactics style rule that grants all models with the Mark of [insert god here] extra special rules to turn them into their respective Cult units at the cost of you being forced into a mono-god list. I think it's not cut and dry, GW could do pretty much anything. As far as what I'd do: - Land Raider variants combined with a slight points reduction. - Defiler to be either better (AV13) or cheaper (~150pts). - Forgefiend needs to be cheaper, or maybe gain a Skyfire mode (with the Hades Autocannons) to make it more distinct and useful. - Heldrake needs to be cheaper (~140pts), but the Baleflamer then needs to cost something on top (~20pts). - Possessed need assault grenades and a decent points drop. - Warp Talons need assault grenades. - Terminators could do with being a little cheaper, they also need the Reaper Autocannon to be better or much cheaper. - Chaos Marines need Ultra-grit as standard or need to be cheaper. - Chosen should have access to Veteran Skills, they also need to be a little cheaper in terms of basic points cost. - Raptors need a small boost to balance them against Bikers and Spawn, Hit and Run would be my choice. - Thousand Sons need a proper rethink from the ground up so they actually fit their fluff properly. - Berserkers need to be proper melee beasts, bring back the 2A basic and keep Rage and Furious Charge (drop Counter Attack, it doesn't fit them). - Noise Marines could do with being a little cheaper. - Chainaxe needs to be cheaper for Characters. - Sonic Blaster needs to be a dual-profile weapon again instead of Salvo. - Relics bought in line with recent books (cheaper, simpler, more useful). - Warpsmiths need access to a Bike. - Dark Apostles need access to a Bike / Jump Pack. - Marked Sorcerers psychic discipline selection needs fixing. - Veterans of the Long War as an in-built, army wide, special rule. - Lift the "must challenge" part of Champions of Chaos and replace with a bonus when challenging. - Simplify the boon table, removing the useless options. Ideally so it's a 2D6 roll (with challenging improving it to 3D6 and you may choose which 2 results to use). I'm not saying any of the above balancing changes should be too drastic. In most cases a point (or two) would be enough to bring them into line. Though there are exceptions (the Defiler being the main one). There's probably more stuff I could say as well. I've not touched Mutilators, Helbrutes and Cultists for example. Mainly because the Helbrute got a lot from IA:13, I'm not sure how I'd fix Mutilators, and Cultists are pretty much fine as they are. If anything new does get added (and I doubt it will), a dedicated AA vehicle would be good, as would an alternative Transport choice (to the Rhino). One thing I know for sure... I'd rather wait and have it be good than get it next week and have it suck. No rush jobs this time around please. Now, I'd still like to have it some time this year (sorry WarriorFish), but maybe 2nd or even 3rd Quarter, so a proper amount of work can go into it. In terms of "new models", an updated box of Chaos Marines, plastic Havocs, a plastic Obliterators / Mutilators box, a Land Raider variant box and a couple of Clam Pack Characters seems reasonable. I'd like to see small upgrade boxes for each of the Cults as well... but I suspect that GW will leave that to Forgeworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 And we haven't even properly mentioned rolling it back an edition or two: so proud of us! Are we improving?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 And we haven't even properly mentioned rolling it back an edition or two: so proud of us! Are we improving?! I think its more a general acceptance that it'll never happen rather than moving on. The difference between expectation and wishlisting I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I expect everything but flavor and good design. And GW always matches my expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont think they are big on forcing much these days, but I would KILL for Marked lords rules to match Cult Marines. Just find the target of my attention, and I swear, it will be done. If they do ONE KHORNE CURSED THING FOR ME. Give me Marked Lords matching Cult units.... EDIT: Cult Terminators, two things, so sue me. I wouldn't kill anybody, but I'd help kick Phil Kelly and whosoever is responsible for the lack of story in Destiny's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 And we haven't even properly mentioned rolling it back an edition or two: so proud of us! Are we improving?! I'd rather go forward than back. 3.5 is a happy memory in a lot of ways, but it had big issues the moment a competitive gamer got their hands on it. A well balanced and flavoured codex would be much better than some ungodly lump of cheese... on a stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allart01 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 All I want is a chapter traits - like system fror the Legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I'm expecting something fairly radical, possibly even ending Cult Troops as their own unit choice, and instead opening up options as addons for the various units. It would let them produce add-on kit sprues which could be bundled in with the existing range and minimise the need for new production. It'd open up the idea of Cult Terminators, Cult Bikers and similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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