Sception Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 nerfed maulerfiends, plus moved to fastzero new unitsno more troop cults (instead terrible cult formations)Abaddon a lord of war, but otherwise unchangedonly new models plastic dual kit maulers/oblits; $90us for threeother existing csm kits reackaged with new bigger bases at increased price pointbland/terrible/boring codex, supplemented by awkward, overpriced, overlarge formations continuance of CSMs as a melee focused faction without meaningful delivery optionsI finally just dump the rest of my chaos marines altogether, and celebrate being done with this gameTo be blunt, I have not at all enjoyed 7th edition, whether we're talking about the core rules or the direction of codex/army book/supplement/dataslate/formation design. The whole game has become a bloated, cluttered, and (imo) unfun mess in my absence, and the longer I'm away, the less I have any desire to ever come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I would not say that the rules complement is becoming "bloated", confusing could be a better term. Still as I have said several times, the formations are the future, for they not only provide a "theme" but also allow a new and inexperienced player to collect the miniatures and build an army from them in an easier way. The good thing about formations is also that they free slots for the main army which allows us to bring more HQ and more utilities to the board. The new codex might be a bland one but in truth most of them will be by the time the 7th edition updates for the other armies will come to be. The Space Wolf codex is a nice example of this, nothing jumps to your eyes as a must have option, all are viable, some are better but most of the units have a role and are viable. That is exactly what we of Chaos need, do not shoehorn us into a single army build or coerce us into a single Mark for our army, make all viable, not strong or effective, just viable, that is what we ask. I think we all agree that no one of us would like to play another edition with Plague Marines as their best in slot troops. The new books are doing just that, nothing is stellar, all is bland. The spice to the context comes from the "extra" like formations. And truth be told even in tournaments I usually go with rather "thematic" builds than simply using the best in slot units. I actually don't see the current codex methodology as something that would harm the Chaos Space Marines, it could even help us where we need it most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I suppose my expectations largely go in line with what we know of current 7th edition design philosophy, Force Organization shifting to be removed, Failbaddon to be a Lord of War, and a new formation and dataslate for the Chaos Marine Warband. Probably with an attached supplement sold with it. I do wonder how they will handle the Four Cult Legions though. They have always been a traditional part of the Chaos Space Marine faction and I do think they will be retained in some form or fashion for those people who play World Eaters, Emperor's Children, etc, etc. Though it might be more of a pity for players like me, who enjoy mixing squads of Cult Troops in a single army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Maulerfiends moving to FA would let me take 3 MAs, 1 Fire Raptor, and 2 Plague Hulks in the same Combined Arms detachment, which I feel is a nice roster of stuff that is fairly good for your buck (assuming they don't ruin Maulerfiends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Timely post on Spiky Bits: A buddy of mine was on Facebook the other day talking about all the new releases he would like to see in 2015. As I read them I realized that Talon’s ‘wish list’ may not be too far off from what we may see in the near future. Check it out. Courtesy of Talon Herbison NC 40kGamers What I would like to see next from GW: (Have a Summer of Chaos)Codex: Chaos DaemonsCodex: Chaos Space Marines (with Legion tactics!)Supplement Codex: NurgleSupplement Codex: TzeetchSupplement Codex: KhorneSupplement Codex: SlaaneshTons of new plastic kits like Greater Daemons, a redone Abbadon, Plastic Obliterator Kit, new CSM kit, a real cultist kit, and the Dark Vengeance style release of a new Chosen kit. How supplements that drop from the first two Codices that build mono-god armies. Chaos Imperial Knight Upgrade Kits (sold separately from the Imperial Knight Kits of course ! ) http://spikeybitsblog.com/2015/01/editorial-the-future-of-40k.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurge Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Timely post on Spiky Bits: A buddy of mine was on Facebook the other day talking about all the new releases he would like to see in 2015. As I read them I realized that Talon’s ‘wish list’ may not be too far off from what we may see in the near future. Check it out. Courtesy of Talon Herbison NC 40kGamers What I would like to see next from GW: (Have a Summer of Chaos)Codex: Chaos Daemons Codex: Chaos Space Marines (with Legion tactics!) Supplement Codex: Nurgle Supplement Codex: Tzeetch Supplement Codex: Khorne Supplement Codex: Slaanesh Tons of new plastic kits like Greater Daemons, a redone Abbadon, Plastic Obliterator Kit, new CSM kit, a real cultist kit, and the Dark Vengeance style release of a new Chosen kit. How supplements that drop from the first two Codices that build mono-god armies. Chaos Imperial Knight Upgrade Kits (sold separately from the Imperial Knight Kits of course ! ) http://spikeybitsblog.com/2015/01/editorial-the-future-of-40k.html Don't be such a *remove word* tease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 haha, to clarify, as mentioned in the post, these are guesses and expectations, nothing confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 nerfed maulerfiends, plus moved to fast zero new units no more troop cults (instead terrible cult formations) Abaddon a lord of war, but otherwise unchanged only new models plastic dual kit maulers/oblits; $90us for three other existing csm kits reackaged with new bigger bases at increased price point bland/terrible/boring codex, supplemented by awkward, overpriced, overlarge formations continuance of CSMs as a melee focused faction without meaningful delivery options I finally just dump the rest of my chaos marines altogether, and celebrate being done with this game To be blunt, I have not at all enjoyed 7th edition, whether we're talking about the core rules or the direction of codex/army book/supplement/dataslate/formation design. The whole game has become a bloated, cluttered, and (imo) unfun mess in my absence, and the longer I'm away, the less I have any desire to ever come back. I know the feeling - but throw yourself in again. The game itself isn't bad. It's confusing, because you have to have about 78 books on hand and about three different card decks, but get past that and you're laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 I also think that 7th edition is my favorite edition of the game (played since 3rd), minus a few sore spots like super-heavies, chariots, and trying to ground fliers. Overall the glut of new options makes the game better rather than worse- it sucked when you only had 2 codexes a year and the codexes had few units and options. The problems with the game come from a handful of overpowered units/codexes. The large majority of the core rules and updated codexes are pretty great. If it wasn't for Tau, Eldar, and a few Tyranid formations and Space Wolf, this would be the most balanced version of 40k ever despite also being the biggest to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 reasonable expectation is that everything will be worse than before. How can things get worse?? Unless they drop cult units from the dex and have them as data slate-supplement cash grabs. Seriously if they do that I'm selling up and leaving the hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegsmacht Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 People like cult units so wouldn't be surprising if they make them a separate purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 nerfed maulerfiends, plus moved to fast zero new units no more troop cults (instead terrible cult formations) Abaddon a lord of war, but otherwise unchanged only new models plastic dual kit maulers/oblits; $90us for three other existing csm kits reackaged with new bigger bases at increased price point bland/terrible/boring codex, supplemented by awkward, overpriced, overlarge formations continuance of CSMs as a melee focused faction without meaningful delivery options I finally just dump the rest of my chaos marines altogether, and celebrate being done with this game To be blunt, I have not at all enjoyed 7th edition, whether we're talking about the core rules or the direction of codex/army book/supplement/dataslate/formation design. The whole game has become a bloated, cluttered, and (imo) unfun mess in my absence, and the longer I'm away, the less I have any desire to ever come back. I know the feeling - but throw yourself in again. The game itself isn't bad. It's confusing, because you have to have about 78 books on hand and about three different card decks, but get past that and you're laughing. Exactly what 2nd ed was like, and what GW moved away from with 3rd ed. Omg its the 90's all over agian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 . I think we all agree that no one of us would like to play another edition with Plague Marines as their best in slot troops. Sounds good to me actually, though I have been playing with Plague Marines since 1st ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yeah Plague Marines are never going to suck with the traditional load out and rules they have gotten. They would need a points increase frankly to be even remotely on par with other cults, but if there where justice, everyone else (Zerkers + 1KSons especially) would get cheaper/better. nerfed maulerfiends, plus moved to fast zero new units no more troop cults (instead terrible cult formations) Abaddon a lord of war, but otherwise unchanged only new models plastic dual kit maulers/oblits; $90us for three other existing csm kits reackaged with new bigger bases at increased price point bland/terrible/boring codex, supplemented by awkward, overpriced, overlarge formations continuance of CSMs as a melee focused faction without meaningful delivery options I finally just dump the rest of my chaos marines altogether, and celebrate being done with this game To be blunt, I have not at all enjoyed 7th edition, whether we're talking about the core rules or the direction of codex/army book/supplement/dataslate/formation design. The whole game has become a bloated, cluttered, and (imo) unfun mess in my absence, and the longer I'm away, the less I have any desire to ever come back. The perfect balance of dejection, bile, and apathy for a Chaos Forumite. ;) The games not that bad once I forced myself to really sit down and view it as an edition and not a patch to 6. Saddly, CSM arent 7th edition compliant yet, we need some meaningful formations/detachments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 Plague Marines are already criminally overpriced. They only seem good because the other 3 cult units are not only overpriced, but also mostly useless. I think all cult units should go down in cost by 3 points base, and the banners need to be reworked or made cheaper or both. One cool thing I noticed is that IA13 gives a legacy of ruin that is a huge buff to Khorne units with the wrath banner within 12" - FNP and Fear for the whole unit. Slap that thing on a Land Raider or a Typhon and run it down the field with some Berserker, Raptor, or Khorne bikers nearby. Honestly, 2 big squads of 22-point Khorne bikers with furious charge, rage, fear, counter-attack, re-rolling charge distances, +1 combat resolution, and FNP is not bad at all. And you can stick Khorne Juggerlords into the units for fearless (giving the Lords FNP!! Take a Khorne Lord with the relic from the crimson supplement and you have a 4-wound 2+/4++ T5 khorne lord with FNP and IWND to soak up low-level wounds in front of the bike squad....). And now bikes are scoring in 7th, and can first-turn grab relics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 nerfed maulerfiends, plus moved to fast zero new units no more troop cults (instead terrible cult formations) Abaddon a lord of war, but otherwise unchanged only new models plastic dual kit maulers/oblits; $90us for three other existing csm kits reackaged with new bigger bases at increased price point bland/terrible/boring codex, supplemented by awkward, overpriced, overlarge formations continuance of CSMs as a melee focused faction without meaningful delivery options I finally just dump the rest of my chaos marines altogether, and celebrate being done with this game To be blunt, I have not at all enjoyed 7th edition, whether we're talking about the core rules or the direction of codex/army book/supplement/dataslate/formation design. The whole game has become a bloated, cluttered, and (imo) unfun mess in my absence, and the longer I'm away, the less I have any desire to ever come back. I know the feeling - but throw yourself in again. The game itself isn't bad. It's confusing, because you have to have about 78 books on hand and about three different card decks, but get past that and you're laughing. Exactly what 2nd ed was like, and what GW moved away from with 3rd ed. Omg its the 90's all over agian. Oh definitely - does history not just repeat itself?! . I think we all agree that no one of us would like to play another edition with Plague Marines as their best in slot troops. Sounds good to me actually, though I have been playing with Plague Marines since 1st ed. Us Death Guard players want all the Plague Marines all the time. Who would argue with them?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I would not say that it is about to be doom and gloom for it wont be. The thing I expect most (even more than rules) is a new box for our core Chaos Space Marines. The Cult Troops are awesome too but I think if we want an update in our aesthetics it should begin with the basic marine, followed by the cults and then moving onto new HQ and Havoc/Chosen/Terminators models. In terms of rule why all the negativity. So far the new books to not have a bad mark from me. I have played against them all this year, ranging from SW to the recently released Blood Angels. From the players I have played with the most shared opinion was the following, confusing at first, many things are viable, fewer upgrades but better. Now this is all good for me. I would like a cut on several redundant options across our army as well as the inclusion of some new and more thematic aspects to it. That is all. At the end of the day I am slowly becoming a fan of formations (especially the Mayhem Pack) since they allow me to field more in a legit list. I see the formation as a dedicated aspect in our army while the rest of the slots are filled with what I think I need for the battle ahead. Maybe it is more HQ, maybe it is more cheap OS MSU of CSM but in the end it allows for flexibility, and I like flexibility. I cannot say that I am a proponent of the "larger" formations but while ours so far are mostly thematic, the SW, Ork and BA ones are quite interesting. Also keep in mind that WD is covering formations too so for a cheap a BA player got several formations with a single WD in December, and quite good ones too. I think we should more lean into this "new" methodology of gameplay GW is pushing and try to enjoy it, understand it and use it, before we move onto open criticism. Even if or book will be bland, seriously speaking, do we really need so much redundancy in our codex (Havoc, Forgefiend, Obliterators and Predator for what is mostly the same role...), think on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Cult units have been available as troops in one form or another since I started playing with the slim 3.0 codex over 15 years ago. So, I am skeptical that any new codex will be released without permitting them to be an army's core, in one way or another. Either as basic troops or a flexible alternate detachment/formation. It would be a very radical change indeed to invalidate the zillions of PM, Berserker, Noise Marine or even 1k sons armies that must exist out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Well we all know what happened to the Blood Angels and their Assault Marines..but I agree I don't think Cult units will be removed from the Troops slot. The need for a marked Lord is enough tax as is, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If Cult Marines are still available as troops, then it will be as a flat troops choice, not as an unlock. Which isn't a bad thing, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Put all cult units as troops, however if you take a second cult unit (of a different cult) then they may only be taken as elites. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 IIIIIIIIIFFFFF they do drop the cult troops and put them in a Dataslate/Minidex, the only thing stopping me from totally loosing my :cuss after realising I have wasted 24 years of time, money and basically my life would be a Codex Nurgle (or other god for you other players) with cult lords and termies, I'd feel robbed for blurting 60 quid just to be able to use my Nurgle army but if it allows me to use the army that I want and not just *Plague Marines led by a weaker Lord* then I guess I'd just be bitter over the cost and carry on as I am now. If they do away with them totally then I stand my my statement of selling up and quitting. Hell I'll even give Forte my Slaanesh army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Also I think we need a update on the CSM squad minis before new Cult Plastics, rework the range from the Ground up. Something like the Chosen but not as warped, so they will fit in between existing Chaos forces of older models and the newer uber warped Chosen. Throw in a little RoC flavour with the sculpts as well, cant go wrong with a little retro, like flamer bodes for Tzeentch Champions, Slaanesh Champions with Daemonette Claws etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4k30r Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I would like to see some "kind of" chapter tactics for chaos legions....No rules for 1st founding legions... Word eaters bearers, Iron warriors Alpha, Night lords, i would like rules for all them , and some extra transports that is enough i think for boosts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If they implement Legion Tactics as our Chapter Tactics equivalent, it could just as well work on a detachment basis. World Eater's detachment? Berzerkers are troops for you. Ally with an Emperor's Children detachment (which can take Noise Marines as troops)? Only as Desperate Allies. :-D The unmarked Legions could take different approaches to cult units. The Black Legion fluff obviously supports all manner of cult troops (could be their chapter trait, may take all cult marine choices as troops but gain nothing else), whereas Word Bearers basically regard cult marines as heretics. Honestly, Legion tactics done right and reasonably balanced could make chaos armies feel and play very differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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