What are your expectations for a new Chaos codex? (rumors!)

[Slave to Darkness]

Totally forgot about non cult armies, shame as I play Word Bearers, yea something that makes them different from everybody else. Even If its just Vet skills, hell just give us infiltrating units back without having to take Huron and I'm sure a lot of ppl would be happy.

[Rasclomalum]

Not too hard to visualise what it could looke like. The Alpha Legion should pretty much get Huron's infiltration as one of their Legion Traits. Iron Warriors are siege masters so Move Through Cover, deny enemy cover and stuff like that. Night Lords cause Fear (and other things that actually matter, like Raptor/Warp Talon troops), Word Bearers get Possessed Troops and perhaps Anointed Terminators, Crusader and other faith-based rules but can have no cult troops of any kind, maybe not even marks.

[Scribe]

You guys actually expect that? I mean wishlisting, sure I could go on for days, but expectation? I dont see any chance outside a supplement for any particular legion to be distinct from another outside the cults.

[Rasclomalum]

Wishlisting, at least on my part. It just seems like the natural progression of things what with C:SM and its chapter tactics. Giving Chaos something similar would be the most natural thing in the world.

[Gree]

I honestly doubt Chaos will get Legion tactics. Don't get me wrong, I would be quite happy if they did, but I find it very unlikely given Games Workshop's current design philosophy with 7th edition and the Chaos faction in general.

[Scribe]

Yeah I figure the only reason SM got chapter tactics...is its SM, the poster boy love child of GW design and GW Sales. Nobody else should expect that kind of care and attention. :p

[tdemayo]

With all respect to Blood Angels players, I think their situation is/was a little bit different. Blood Angels have been portrayed as marines fighting a flaw -- more or less normal codex marines with a tendency towards hand to hand. (And madness.)

 

The rules have tried different approaches to represent this, not all of them entirely satisfying. In 3rd they had to make a go crazy test. In 5th, GW tried giving them assault marines as troops. Now they are back to a charge bonus and special units. But it's all just different approaches towards representing their "shooty marine on the outside, Berserker on the inside" theme.

 

Same with Space Wolves. An all wolf guard army was never all that integral to their background, it was just a sort of side option with Logan in the last codex. Rather like Calgar added 0-3 honor guard. And the Wolf guard army didn't even go away: it grew from a 1 sentence rule into a Supplement.

 

So, I'm not sure either precedent quite matches Chaos' situation. Gods, marks, cults, and variations are deeply entrenched and integral to the background and army concept.

 

Well we all know what happened to the Blood Angels and their Assault Marines..but I agree I don't think Cult units will be removed from the Troops slot.

The need for a marked Lord is enough tax as is, imho.

[Chaeron]

Removing Cult Troops would be like removing Death Company... won't happen.

[Tenebris]

So far the only things I recalled being removed are those units which did not have an official model. Only to be reinvented later on in another form (read the Tyranid drop pod). Another argument are Special Characters, I think some books are overbloated with them in the first place, or could really use a complete remake in both model and rules (Vect). As I have said, I do not think to see the Cult Troops removed as well as any other unit which has a model. What I expect though is an emphasis on formations to bring flavor to the book and not the units themselves to be anything "special" or better than they are now. 

 

Come what may I am a Chaos Space Marine from facegrill to ceramite boots, I am not concerned even in the slightest of our fate, despite the many naysayers and doomspeakers. What I hope is new kits, new and leaner formations, new warlord traits and new wargear. If in the bargain we also get some new unit or iconic piece of wargear all the better. So far the only thing I can say that we "need" is a dedicated assault transport, which should be cheap, AV 11/12 and fast as hell itself, a drop pod would be preferable, but a transport would be good news too.

[the jeske]

Guess who cost  less 200 and more then 150, and doesn't care about misscasts ?

[Trevak Dal]

Well, I got a solid core of models and guys I want now.  Still...a plethora of HQs.  3 Chaos Space Marine squads and Rhinos to put them in, raptors to back them up.

So really...about the only thing GW can do to mess with current play style is to make it so that CSMs can't carry 2 specials and can't have Rhinos-then there's always HH or Loyalists to go with-though HH would probably be easier to play because-CSM rules seem kinda similar rules wise to HHM, just Tau-like with no specials in the troops.

[Slave to Darkness]

What cares me the most is that we aint exactly got a good dex atm (I'm ignoring CS, BL, IA13, Daemon allies and dataslates, just talkin core dex) and if GW are taking out some of the totally weird stuff to make all dexes simmilar then what will happen to our not so good dex? 

[Slave to Darkness]

I know that most of my recent posts have been doom and gloom the sky might be falling posts, but considering I've seen every book we get get worse since the RoC books (a slight boot with the 3.5 dex but that turned me into a power gamer with an unbeatable Death Guard army, and I hate power gamers, so I'll ignore that one)I'm running out of faith with what GW can do for us, kinda feel sorry for the girly apron wearing Templars now as they don't even have a dex anymore, still don't feel sorry for them loosing to us in the ETL though. ;)

[tdemayo]

Maybe it's worth thinking about GW's desires and design goals for Chaos. It seems to me that they probably want:

 

1) A rule set that adequately represents the model range in the available space. Chaos is so big in terms of background, that it could support maybe a half dozen books. Or more. (Heck, the HH books must be pushing 800 pages by now.). But the standard for a release now seems to be one codex, one supplement, and some formations. (Campaign supplements appear to come every release now, too.) So the main rules need to fit into 80 pages or so.

 

2) They want the rules to be relatively simple and uncomplicated, so it's easier for new players. I figure their core demographic is a 14 year old Who gets Dark Vengeance for Christmas and fills it out with cool models.

 

3) They only have so many resources to spread around. Chaos is not their biggest breadwinner. It is an adversary force for the "good guys." It gets only a bit more resources than, say, Eldar or Necrons.

 

So "Good enough" is a codex that is relatively modern, supports the current models, and doesn't require lots of additional support outside its release cycle. By that measure, I suspect they are relatively satisfied with Chaos. Yeah, everything is a little too expensive, and it has some balance problems in competition, and it doesn't quite match the fluff fully. But for that 14 yo after Xmas, it works just fine, and it's enough to get him to buy a few more add on kits.

 

So that's why I'm skeptical we'll see an update in 2015, even after they finish with Necrons. I think they won't spend their time and advertising window on a product that's already "good enough," when they could do some new, more exciting product release instead.

[Captain Tezdal]

What do I expect? More blandness, more disappointment, but as long as we get cool new miniatures I'll be happy.

[40kChrista]

I have no expectations for a future book. Getting worked up about what could change is a moot point and not worth the time.

 

If they do release a new book, which I doubt because it's already a hardback, I don't think there would be a lot of change. They already sell enough Raptor/Talon kits and Possessed for conversions, their rules will stay the same or only change a little. Mutilators might get buffed, I have never used them as is. Abby will probably be a LoW, and if he is then maybe they'll remove his tax for Bringers of Dispair in the BL supplement. Maybe more options for Apostles and Warpsmiths... like bikes, jumpacks, and steeds.

[Ammonius]

I'll be interested to see if "no model, no entry" will apply to wargear. There is no official model (or even picture, to my knowledge) of the Black Mace or Axe of Blind Fury. Obviously, Chaos modellers worldwide have crafted hundreds of great versions, and Chaos being Chaos, they are all perfectly fine. They did come out with the Helbrute Kit, so I wonder if "official" versions of other items are coming.

 

I think that's about as far as I want to let my expectations go.

[Tenebris]

Well considering that GW seems to have learned the lesson and begun to fill the sprues with all sorts of goodies and decorations I think with the options they put on the units sprue someday we will be able to cover the entirety of our weapon choices. Kits surely are more expensive than they used to be but they also come more loaded with options. 

[Hellios]

Guess who cost  less 200 and more then 150, and doesn't care about misscasts ?

 

Khârn the betrayer? 

 

---

 

I've not given it much thought, but models will be the most interesting thing for me.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see 5 man boxes with loads of options. GK/SW style. It would be cool if we got a box that had bits for chosen and havocs, and lots of extras that allowed you to pick and choose some non-cult legion flavour.

 

Then some 5 man box sets that included cult troops, and upgrades for other units (like cult terminator chest-plates, and helmets.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

 

So I wanted to ask everyone what your EXPECTATIONS are, based on recent [t]rends

 

 

My expectation?  Disappointment.

 

 

Honestly.  GW continues to propagate the concept that Chaos Marines are The Number One Threat to the Imperium in the fluff, but the last two editions of C:CSM haven't kept pace with that threat.  They've lost customization-ability, they've lost flavorful rules, they've lost hitting power, they've lost options.  Chaos Marines were the army that got me into 40K, but I haven't played a serious game with them in years.

[Slave to Darkness]

Instead of screwing us again with another bad dex. Just update our basic squads with new kits and call it a day. 

[the jeske]

Why? No new rules wouldn't make people want/have to buy stuff.

Look at BAs or GK. What was bad? tacs, normal termies. What is/has to be used. Tacs and normal termis.

 

now with chaos you kind of a do hit a brick wall as all our troops are kind of a meh. But If I were GW I would nerf cultists , like drop them to LD 4-5 and/or ws2 bs2 etc kept cult troops out of troops[play unbound or one of the 1k pts formations, if you want those].

Nerf oblits, kepts bikers[but rised points cost], changed spawn[so you would never ever ever want to put an HQ in to them or just made it impossible to put an HQ in to spawn]. I would drop the points costs of cults[zerkers/1ksons, but not too much] and rised it on pms[by a lot] and left the EC unchanged[and gave them new models]. Demon engines would be buffed in cost to kep up with the defiler. defiler would drop in cost[but still 200pts], so not realy a viable option. this would steer people to go for the raptors/csm/predator/rhino kits. Later I would add a new type of big model[well 2, you know how it works], preferably with a new single model that everyone would want[run your imagination what you could want to run in an army of rhino csm/raptors or csm+formations].

 

You would have less problems with efficiency. the demonic/relics/cult/chaos stuff that is always the problem would be either bad or limited to formation, which you could limit by deciding how a formation would look like. There will be 0 combos if a formation clocks at 1kpts naked. Better yet people would be playing marines in marine armies, you wouldn't have the problems 6th had where best troops were in the starter set and everyone wanted to use those[which lowered the sells of boxs and created a secondary market for those].

 

sprinkle it with random tables. The pirate/conqueror/crusader "we are so not chapter tactics" mechanic and the new tzeench sorc hotness[now without bike options. only lords on bike now] and your ready to put out WD+supplement+codex. heck you would even have a nice start for an extra "formation/specific army/scenario" book in the future .

[Tenebris]

Weeeeelll... the above could be the worst case scenario but I do not think that GW is that spineless. Fact is that despite some unit options were boosted due to sell value (read Tactical Space Marine Squad (standard and BA) and Terminators) the rest were not so severely "shuffled" or "nerfed" to make them useless, despite the demand to sell kits. In my book neither of the new power armor books did receive such a drastic overhaul as you imply Jeske (again I agree, from a clear marketing point one could do the above) nor did they push the new kits up our throats. Look at the Space Wolf flyers, they are good, hell they are nice, but the Thunderwolf Cavalry is still hot as an unit and a long time favorite of the fans. Same as for their new Dreadnought kit, it is awesome, brilliant I dare say, but nowhere does it scream must have. 

 

No, the approach is far more subtle hence far more long reaching. What GW does in fact is to create an equal footprint for all the newly released armies. They tone them down to make them all equal (not balanced but equal) in what the players can build and what the players can deploy. They are sort of rebooting the 40k system making a tabula rasa of the armies, a streamlining if I can say, so that they have a common ground upon which to build their real merchandise, namely supplements, formations and new kits. 

 

The fact is that by now, in 2015 the army books are bloated, each and everyone of them. Every unit from the previous codexes has been translated into the new rendition of the army which led to an excess in units, wargear and kits which are redundant in both form and function. You can expand an army only so much until you hit the mark that if you go further you collapse the system, hence the streamlining.

 

In the end I expect almost zero novelties in terms of units, but an emphasis on multipart kits as well as a reshuffling of the points value for our book, in order to be able to build upon it in the future. To some of you this will strike as an active effort to make the codex blunt, uneventful, yet in all truth it is just part of a major process undertaken by GW. Our best chance is to look forward for new kits and not new units per se, or god forbid a piling of new special rules. 

[Chaeron]

I tell you one thing I would really like for us: data cards.

 

It's simple, but irrespective of how uber a Codex may be, these can really offer some much needed VPs...

[Kilofix]

I expect much gnashing of teeth, ....on both sides.