Warsmith Aznable Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 In my opinion there will be only four marks/upgrades which you would be able to buy for every infantry unit in the codex. A separate mark will be used for the vehicle variant. The rest will be formations. That would be more streamlined, Tenebris. But to keep the game balanced the cost of Marks would have to climb, I think, leaving a pretty big gap between basic un-Marked troops and their Marked brethren. We have had for a while the three levels: un-Marked, Marked, full-on Cult. I think maybe the developers would want to keep that dynamic, providing that middle ground of the basic Mark, which is why I looked to the levels of reward from the Daemons codex for inspiration (as I think they might.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The more I observe the recent development of the armies the more I think I can take some conclusions. First thing, the codex is no longer a standalone book but it is considered the "entry point" into an army. It comes with the basic (core) units and with generic (core) rules to play the said army and differentiate it from the others. Following this, the second thing. I think that once the player has passed the "entry point" he will be "invited" to "supplement" his rather core, bland army in two ways. For the player who has a specific play style in mind he has the option to buy specific dataslates or special models. For the player who likes a "thematic" approach the solution is a "supplement" which locks the army into a very specific playing style and it is a more elaborate set of rules, units and formations built upon the "core" book. The difference being that a Dataslate has the role to supplement an army where it is lacking (or as the meta evolves/changes) while an Army Supplement is a publication with the "aficionado" in mind, the fan of a specific faction. By doing so GW plays on the tunes of both gaming groups, the group which follows the meta and demands "working rules" and the group which is in the hobby for their love of a faction, hero, modelling aspect. By producing dataslates for the first group and supplements for the second they will be able to shift the meta as they like and still have a substantial income from the average player who dabbles in the many aspects of the hobby. With this "new" logic a "codex" is merely the first step into playing a faction and thus it requires to be generic, streamlined and the core choices in the book must be valid (not strong, just viable). If one would go to devise an army book/codex with this logic behind we can see a lot of things unfold. First the rules will be general. The point is is the core concept, not in the many shades of a rule or an unit. The wargear as well as the army wide rules must be generic (hence USR piling instead of an ad hoc rule). Last this forces the developer to make the core units working and must not bloat its upgrade options (which is the job of the supplement/dataslate to do) so he must keep the stat modifiers as basic as possible. My interpretation is that we will find ourselves with a very "limited" set of "special rules" and most of the new book will be just a clean up job with some tweaks here and there to make the codex "simpler". By this logic then if the "upgrade" will happen then do not expect stellar or multi-leveled tiers (not like dwarf runes), for it will be just four different marks with several USR ingrained in them. The benefit will be "maybe" that the upgrade will be open to all infantry and vehicle models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The trouble here is that if there is a significant delay in the follow ups then they risk alienating both of your gamer types. Look at the swell of optimism that surrounded the announcement of a supplement for a legion shortly after the codex came out, unfortunately they chose black legion and stopped. There are so many distinct forms of chaos subset, that have been entrenched in the fan base that unless the release is enormous which risks overwhelming the market there will always be the ones that get less priority. The trouble with formations being used to apply the legion character is that they will be bound in the official model of the legion, with less customisation than the codex or supplement would allow, even with other detachments allowed as it would appear to be that your army is made of two parts rather than a whole. The smaller formations like the helbruge ones are fine, but the big ones seem prohibitive. If you look at the fantasy end times these books effectively contain new army lists and rules in one volume and the background in a separate one, I can see this format working for a chaos book as it gives room for everything and is a tested model. Keeping everyone happy is going to be impossible, but that is certainly an option they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'd say Counter Attack would more be a Slaanesh thing as they'll be more likely to read your next movement. Though personally, I'd be happy with being able to have a few more options so HQ choices don't end up so cookie cutter, and options so Cult forces (even if they end up as Data Slates which wouldn't surprise me at all) have options. Slaanesh close combat squads (Palatine Blades with combat drugs and doom sirens if you want to picture it) and Tzeentch thrall covens as examples. But, I will patiently wait and see what unfolds. Till then...painting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 MaliGn, if they stay away from "Legion X formation" and stick to things like formations based on specialist units (Havocs, Terminators, Raptors, daemon engines, etc) then a Legion player could choose a combination of those specialist formations to represent what they believed their Legion to be like. Add an appropriate HQ to that collection and you've got something more flavorful and flexible than what Black Legion or Crimson Slaughter did for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 That's a fair point, that would allow combinations, or repetitions to provide the theme, without giving too much over to one. Then provide guidelines as to the preferred tactics and formations of each legion, but without making them completely prohibitive. I think it is certain that gw will eventually produce new plastic kits for all the cult troops, but it is whether they can in time for a single release as we know that their policy has moved to no kit no unit. I'd prefer them to release fully realised kits for each cult troop than update the csm frame again as it seems more useful. It will provide enough new combinations with the old kits to allow for more variety. However with vocal calls for all manner of kit combinations none of which are unreasonable they'll inevitably compromise. If that leaves us with a new csm kit, dual mutilators and obliterators and a replacement vehicle upgrade sprue set that allows for sponson ectoplasma, hades autocannons and whatever else, coupled with these options for predators and land raiders plus some clampack characters and so on, with a series of cult splash releases to follow then that sounds like good times ahead. But that is a lot of release time for one faction however you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimjimmyjim Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Are we expecting a new chaos codex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 In the last week of March, GW will release a Codex for Khorne Warbands/Hordes.It combines Khorne-themed CSM and daemon units. Formations, etc..It is a one-week release with no new miniatures released for this new codex as such (but Zerkers, in all their old miniatures-glory, are actually in the Codex, no WD spin-offs).The main purpose of this khorne codex is to ride in the slipstream of End Times 5, which will be released earlier in march, with the "headline"-release of the new Bloodthirster (builds 3 variants).There is no "main" Codex CSM in 2015. There are no nurgle, tzeentch, etc. equivalents to this khorne one planned (yet), as it's mostly an End Times add-on to make the new Bloodthirster with all its variants work in 40K. From a post on Warseer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Can't marks just be mirrored in the narrative of the game and not the rules. Imagine how many design problems would be gone, if GW didn't have to deal with 5+ meq basic units, but just had one basic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 From a post on Warseer. That has no power here ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If Marks were done as by the narrative, it would so sadly mumble jumbled Chaos would several Codices long. Because you'd have to have rules for the people who Marked themselves and gained a god's favor, those who were Marked by the gods, those who were blessed by the gods without being faithful, and eighteen million other variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We should totally make Night Lords a Raptor legion. I also emphasize this merely to annoy Kol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Only if the Sons of Horus become a Catulan Reaver Legion. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 From a post on Warseer. That has no power here The sources are good, warseer brings more early leaks than anything outside..Lords of War? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We should totally make Night Lords a Raptor legion. I also emphasize this merely to annoy Kol. Hell no. Proper terror squads please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 We should totally make Night Lords a Raptor legion. I also emphasize this merely to annoy Kol. Hell no. Proper terror squads please.And actual minis to go with it. Hint hin wink wink Forgeworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The sources are good, warseer brings more early leaks than anything outside..Lords of War? :p It just screams crossed wires and tea room dreaming (as in idle chat over tea and jam scones). Sorry, I just don't trust rumours from any source. Especially where GW releases are concerned ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Only if the Sons of Horus become a Catulan Reaver Legion. So a situation where we have a pick between flavor skewed lists and everyone playing the same BL set up, the second one is a better option? I mean I could understand it from a 1ksons player, GW hates them, but every else? that is like saying no to a workable zerker tide list, because the same list doesn't make a good biker army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 ........... Still don't understand sarcasm I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Only that is not sarcasm, what you use. . You said more then enough times, that you don't want NL to be "raptors legion". I would rather see a chaos book full of rules for only raptors NL, only cultists AL, only footslogging WB [specialy with the multi cad system we have today], then one "flexible" codex making everyone play the same army . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Only that is not sarcasm, what you use. . You said more then enough times, that you don't want NL to be "raptors legion". I would rather see a chaos book full of rules for only raptors NL, only cultists AL, only footslogging WB [specialy with the multi cad system we have today], then one "flexible" codex making everyone play the same army . I'd rather see one which opens up other options depending on HQ choices (not just Lords). Still with some flexibility because not all warbands (which is essentially what Chaos is now) from the same Legion operate the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 .................... There's a Jeff Dunham reference here involving Peanut and airplane noises but I think I'll be stretching the forum rule by making it, so i'm not. What I am going to do is say that you should do some research on the Catulan Reavers, research on their rules and the Sons of Horus Rites of War, go back and read Incinerator's and my comments, and if the sarcasm still doesn't make sense, shake your head and walk away. But I have faith you can see the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 To be honest, the 'khorne book to coat tail an ETV 'thirster release sounds more plausible to me (not credible, no choas marine rumors are credible) than the previous CSM codex update rumors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliGn Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 The two go hand in hand though, the separate khorne book paves the way for pulling bezerkers from the chaos book, then the other cults would follow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 .................... There's a Jeff Dunham reference here involving Peanut and airplane noises but I think I'll be stretching the forum rule by making it, so i'm not. What I am going to do is say that you should do some research on the Catulan Reavers, research on their rules and the Sons of Horus Rites of War, go back and read Incinerator's and my comments, and if the sarcasm still doesn't make sense, shake your head and walk away. But I have faith you can see the light. Wat. You are not supposed to make sense. Like retail and Corporate policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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