Help a Static Army against Dynamic Army

[David Ravel]

Greetings everyone. My question is regarding a particular case where I'm running my Tanith forces i.e. Astra Militarum (90% infantry, lots of long-range wep and snipers) against a Ravenwing Army with a Maelstrom of War mission. Of course, I could just change my army and be more versatile, etc. but that's what I got, so hardcore mode. 

 

But in general, I think we could expand this post to include anyone using static strategies (gunline, footslogging, etc.) against dynamic strategies (fast, bikes, deepstrike, etc.).

 

How do you deploy ? Do you just focus on your side of the table since you know you cannot get the other one ? Or do you try to move foward and get a hold of the middle with your troops while defending your own edge with long-range stuff (I have heavy weapon teams and an aegis defense line) ? 

 

My list is gonna be something like this :

 

HQ

1 Commissar Yarrick [count-as Gaunt] (Warlord)

1 Company Command Squad /w Vox /w Medipack /w Lascannon

2 Primaris Psyker /w Force Staff /w mlvl 2

 

Elite

6 Ratling [count-as Sniper]

6 Ratling [count-as Sniper]

 

Troops

10 Veterans /w 3 Plasma Gun /w Lascannon /w Foward Sentries

Platoon Command Squad /w Vox /w Lascannon

30 Guardsmen /w 3 Flamer /w 1 Vox /w 3 Melta Bomb (Sgt)

3 HWT Lascannon

3 HWT Lascannon

 

Fast

2 Tauros Venator /w TL Multi-Laser

2 Tauros /w Tauros Grenade Launcher

 

Fortification

1 Aegis Defense Line /w Icarus Lascannon

 

Allied Detachment : Adepta Sororitas

 

HQ

1 Celestine [count-as Living Saint i.e. Saint Sabbat]

 

Troops

Either 2 pack of 5 sisters in Immolator or 1 in a Repressor with a priest, still not sure. 

 

The goal is to put the Vets, the HWT and both Command Squad inside the Aegis to man up the Icarus and defend my side of the table. I would move my blob to the middle of the board and try to at least get some form of control of the middle with the help of the SOB and the Saint. I would also try to ouflank my Tauros to disrupt his table edge, hit transport in the back or get objectives on his side. If my Tauros fail their job, then I will abandon his side of the board to concentrate on the rest of the board. I want my blob to be able to assist my defense line if he throws everything at hit. With Ignore Cover orders and (what I hope) a little bit of luck on the Prescience, I might be able to hurt bad his BK so they don't one shot my Celestine, which will give her a chance of tagging and hit-and-running his biggest bike squad to give time for my army to attack other stuff. 

 

EDIT : This is obviously not for competition. If you want to discuss further static strategy with a competitive mindset, it's great: but don't give me competitive tips, since my goal is just to enjoy this game (and the future ones) without losing them all. 

[hendrik]

With 5 vehicles i'dd hardly call this a static list. Just know that the tauros are taking up a lot of points(200).you could get 3 chimeras(or 4 taurox,which can work as improved scout sentinels too when no squad embarks) for those points,allowing you to move infantry forwarf more safely if needed.

 

edit: also note that if you're not sending those troops to the middle you'll end up with just celestine and her band of silly nuns going forwards. a unit that can be easely picked off when unsupported. personally i'dd say either change your list a bit to allow more mobile units (like i recommended, note you don't need to put infantry in those units, and those vehicles are still scoring so you could have a lone chimera go and claim a left behind target on a flank), or make a true dedicated gunline (so dropping celestine (and maybe even yarrick) in favour of more troops

[WarriorFish]

hendrik is right, your army isn't a static one and that's just as well as they struggle. You have some vehicles and squads without heavy weapons which can all move up, plus Sisters are designed to attack anyway so they should be pressing on the enemy too. So I'd aim to take closer objectives and keep middle ones in mind for an opportunity, the trick with armies that are more mobile than you is to accept that you can't compete but whatever you do don't think this means surrendering your own mobility! It just means you need to be careful and smart about using it.

 

I'd go with two squads of Sisters and think about unblobbing or reforming your infantry a bit. A couple more squads to advance up the field would make a big difference and wouldn't break the bank.

[David Ravel]

Well I beg to differ about the static thing lol. Of course it's not Tau-static, but it's certainly not dynamic in the same way a Dark Eldar, Eldar, Ravenwing, SM Pod, Blood Angel Jump Pack, etc. Not even in the same league. I have 4 AV 10 (mostly) vehicule which are not dedicated transport (therefore not obj sec) and another transport which contain 6'' troops. To me, this is pretty static. Of course it's not 100% static, just as no list is 100% dynamic, but if we draw a static spectrum, I'm much more on the static side than on the dynamic one. 

 

That being said, I mentionned that I cannot change anything because ''that's what I got''. This is all the IG I have. This is why this post was more about strategy, how to use units, how to deploy, how to get the best out of Aegis Defense Line or other fortifications, etc. 

 

Thanks anyway. 

[WarriorFish]

If we're talking relatively then yes it is static, but you could say that of all Guard armies! :lol: The Aegis takes mobility away from you, depending on where you put it, so by its very nature you are tied down to it in order to gain its benefits. What about treating it as your core and having other elements as satellites running pickets around it and ranging ahead under the protection of the bigger guns? There's nothing stopping a heroic charge from the fortifications at the right moment or even sending some units out ahead early.

 

I'd not blob the troopers so they can cover more, but as it's not a list building requirement you can mix that up depending on the best course of action. If you can make your opponent come to you all the better, and your Ratlings can shuffle about a bit but the best thing would be to aim to accommodate/neutralise your opponent's mobility. As I said before you shouldn't surrender the initiative so keep moving as much as you can where appropriate. Move to keep him further away or get better LoS etc but the most important thing is to keep your units together for support otherwise a faster army will isolate and defeat you easily.

[hendrik]

in that case, can't you play lower points games? i don't know much about the sisters of battle but together with yarrick that should free up at least 500-ish points! now why would you do that, as bigger point levels means more units= more firepower= more fun...

 

hold your horses guardsman!

 

smaller pointgames will mean you're not spending points on all the units you've got (after all, you can't spend them on any other units) but can focus on making a force that is machined well towards working together. it will also mean your opponent has less points to spend on balancing his own force. I'm guessing your original list was about 1500 pts? how about making a 1000 pts one?

anyway, things that help against some mobile units are:

-deploying in high cover such as 1st floors, where bikes won't be able to charge you.

- yes he is more mobile, but you can steer that mobility too. do not only anticipate to his movement since that will mean he gets to dictate the battle. deploy on a strong flank with some ratlings hiding in cover in the other one. will he split up his forces for those couple of ratlings?

[varchilde]

I've been playing my guard in a maelstrom campaign. Here's my 2p:

 

The objectives are placed before deployment zones are chosen so I try to keep the objectives fairly symmetrical, some in each DZ, and some in no mans land. So regardless of which zone I get I've got roughly the same accessibility to objectives.

 

I run a lot of smallish units and try to cover multiple objectives (as many as I can) right from the beginning of the game, pushing my chimera mounted vets and CCS forward to the ones in no mans land. I'm willing to flat out a chimera if I can get on an objective and score an early point. My aim is to camp as many objectives as possible, so rather than having to move between them as I pull new cards I've already got bodies on them. 

[librisrouge]

Always remember this advice I give to all new players, "Dead men score no objectives."

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't play toward holding the objectives. That is how you win the game after all. What I am saying is that IG is a firepower based army and you should keep that central to your thoughts. Ten guardsmen aren't hard to take off an objective, certainly easier than taking ten marines off of one. Because of that you should seek to take away your opponents options early in the game by taking away their units. No enemy units, no enemy objectives. You'll eventually overtake him later.

[David Ravel]

From what I hear, I will keep my infantry platoon protected by a far reaching Aegis Line. When things are getting a little bit clearer, I will make my move to cover the middle ground (where there is a high probability of having objectives as varchilde pointed out). If I can, I'll try to slow bike squad by charging them to give time for my long range weaponry to hit his farther stuff. 

 

Normally I always run my infantry in a blob, so to profit more from charge, overwatch, orders and having a character in there (especially Yarrick). But I am open to suggestions : I know that the main reason to divise it would be to get more scoring unit on the ground (3 vs 1). But is this benefit worth the fact that they can easily run (kill 3 guy in a squad and they do a LD test vs Yarrick being in the 30 guys blob) and loose the advantages I mentionned earlier ? I haven't run them in different squad for fear of loosing them all. It's worth it ? And what would you do with Yarrick ? Juste have him tag with one of them, or the vets for a kind of counter-charge unit since they get defensive grenades ? If so, I could add a power wep on the sergeant or something. 

 

Thanks everyone ! 

[varchilde]

It's very true that dead men can't score! However...

 

My experience of playing Maelstrom of War missions is to make the most of being able to claim objectives (and fulfill the other tactical objectives) on a turn by turn basis right from the beginning of the game, not just make a late game jump onto objectives as we might want to in an Eternal War game. Scoring the tactical objectives typically allows you to replace an objective (thus generating more opportunities to score points), and in some of the missions you may be forced to discard objectives if you haven't scored them (e.g. Deadlock).

 

And scoring objectives make up 50% of the tactical objective tables so you want to be able to get at them early on! 

 

By being on the objectives in advance rather than having to make a reactive move to an objective you can minimise the amount of shooting lost in getting there. In the Contact Lost mission you can only generate new tactical objectives by controlling the objective markers so you want to be on them anyway.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV of course.

 

I can see pros and cons for blobbing up or not. You've got a number of smallish units available to you already in the form of the ratlings and HWTs which can happily camp on objectives, so there's not necessarily any need to break the blob up.  Putting some objectives in cover and infiltrating the ratlings onto them should be entertaining!

 

If Yarrick is your warlord you probably want him fairly central to your forces to make best use of his orders and draconian discipline bubbles.

[WarriorFish]

Good posts varchilde, don't forget to let us know how you get on David as this will be valuable additions to the tactica!