Jessejk Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hi All, Was just wondering this, and apologies if this has been asked before but in the Horus Heresy, which Legion has the most heavily armoured Flagships. Basically is there an outright winner if they went one on one...? I would assume it would either be the Vengeful Spirit or the Phalanx... This all came after reading 'The Gates of Terra'. I know each Battleship is designed and upgraded dependent on their legion, Swordstorm (Scars) for speed, Hrafnkel (Wovles) for punishment and the Phalanx (Imperial Fists) being just HUGE... Regards Jesse Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, the Phalanx is a Starfort more than it is a Ship. Look up the Vessels of the Iron Warriors; especially Perturabos Flagship. As well as those of the Iron Hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The Word Bearers also had those three massive ships, the Furious Abyss, Blessed Lady and Trisagion. They were the three biggest starships made I think. I'm not sure if they were ever flagships though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 IIRC there are around a dozen Gloriana class flagships in Legion service. The Word Bearers have a duo of world killers to neutralize the Phalanx and Terran Defense Grid (Trisagion and Blessed Lady). The Phalanx doesn't particularly count as a battleship, because it is a very mobile star fort, but the VII Legion fleet is the undisputed largest of all the Legions, clocking in at near 1500 ships (HH3:E) though there isn't any evidence they have more than the standard 100ish capital classes of other legions. The Dark Angels, Sons of Horus, and Ultramarines all have massive fleets as well. To my recollection, only the DG is acknowledged to have a small fleet, but a higher ratio of capital classes to escorts. I'd have to go through the material again to give you a concrete estimate though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The Word Bearers. Lorgar exhaled, gesturing to the deep void, past Armatura. Reality opened. Though Magnus’s ethereal incarnation was immune to such weakness, instinct made him shield his eye. A warp-rift formed in space, far from both closing fleets. Something was coming through, something vast: a trident of dark metal immediately familiar to the sorcerer. The ship grinding into reality was a reflection of the slain colossus Lorgar had spoken of. A city of monasteries and cathedrals rose from its back with the reverence of clawed hands sculpted to clutch at the stars. Where most Imperial battleships were spears of crenellated intent and iron-ridged might, this was a fortress in space, borne on the back of a great trident. The central tine served as the vessel’s core: dense at the stern, encrusted with massive engines and tapering towards the prow, where it formed a pointed ram the size of lesser vessels. The trident’s adjacent tines formed smaller blade-wings, each one barnacled with broadsides and cannon batteries. If one were to clad the concept of spite in iron and set it sailing amongst the stars, it might approach the image of what burst back into the universe in that moment. It was, in every way, the Furious Abyss reborn. ‘That,’ Lorgar smiled, ‘is the Blessed Lady.’ Magnus released an unnecessary breath, watching as a ship too vast to exist left the wound in the material universe. It easily eclipsed even the Gloriana-class flagships of the combined Legion fleet, and the warp’s cloudy tendrils lashed at its spires, shrieking into the silence, seemingly reluctant to let the vessel back into reality. ‘You built two,’ the sorcerer breathed. ‘Oh, no.’ Lorgar didn’t even open his eyes. He raised a hand to point into the void, where a second warp-slice ripped across the stars. ‘I built three.’ ‘I was on the bridge.’ The primarch’s voice was a guttural, sticky snarl. His teeth clacked together as his facial muscles twitched to the Nails’ tune. ‘I saw the Word Bearers new battleships. Each one is a rival to Dorn’s precious Phalanx.’ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 IIRC there are around a dozen Gloriana class flagships in Legion service. According to Heart of the Conqueror, the Imperium built 20 Gloriana-class battleships. That number probably implies there was one to serve as the flagship of each Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 IIRC there are around a dozen Gloriana class flagships in Legion service. According to Heart of the Conqueror, the Imperium built 20 Gloriana-class battleships. That number probably implies there was one to serve as the flagship of each Legion. Thank you! I knew there was a number somewhere, but I couldn't recall it off the top of my head. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 As things stand I believe there's currently 17 left. We can safely assume that the 2 from the missing Legions are gone (unless something is written to state other Legions took them) and the Fidelitis Lex burned at the end of Betrayer. The state of the Nightfall is unknown as of the end of Prince of Crows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Death Guard had the biggest fleet of capital class ships, while the Imperial Fists had the biggest fleet period. Word Bearers had the Kingships, which are rivals in power to the Phalanx but are possibly more mobile, being true ships and not a mobile fortress. For your question of who has the most heavily armored flagships, it depends on what you mean. Did you mean the most flagships, which are heavily armored? Forge World says Death Guard. Did you mean the flagships that are the most heavily armored? I think we have candidates everywhere. Death Guard, the Fists, Bearers of the Word, the Hand/Warriors of Iron. Anybody who still has a Gloriana. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3908984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFeeder Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I've always considered the Iron Blood to be the most heavily armoured Legion flagship. It has less obvious weakpoints than all other *Gloriana-class vessels since Peturabo considered things like viewports to be an exercise in vanity. *Assuming the Iron Blood is a Gloriana-class vessel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I've always considered the Iron Blood to be the most heavily armoured Legion flagship. It has less obvious weakpoints than all other *Gloriana-class vessels since Peturabo considered things like viewports to be an exercise in vanity. *Assuming the Iron Blood is a Gloriana-class vessel. In Vengeful Spirit, I remember the Iron Warrior that's with the Knights Errant saying something about how Perturabo had the Iron Blood fortified at the weak points where other legions left theirs (such as the bottom of the ship). Something along those lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well The Shadow of the Emperor is dead, that was Corax's flagship and it was destroyed over Istvaan V. No clue about Vulkan's or Ferrus' but they're probably gone too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaSY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Alpha Legion seems to be having battle barges only while no mention of Gloriana or maybe it is deliberate by AL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Glorianas are battle-barges, in that the latter is a broad category defining Legions Astartes capital vessels and flagships rather than a specific class name like the Gloriana. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Vulkan's flagship may still be about, there's a mention of the large dragon looking ship fighting for the loyalists in the latest HH book, it doesn't explicitly state it's Vulkan's flag ship but it's description seems to suggest it's "ornate" enough to be so. Also the Khan has the fastest flagship. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Phalanx shouldn't really be in contention at all, because it's pretty much just a space fort. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Phalanx shouldn't really be in contention at all, because it's pretty much just a space fort. I'd classify it alongside the Rock as a custom-built, maste-crafted Ramilies Star Fort. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Does anyone else think, giving the large amount of page time dedicated to ships and naval actions in the HH books we might see FW bringing back BFG? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Phalanx shouldn't really be in contention at all, because it's pretty much just a space fort.I'd classify it alongside the Rock as a custom-built, maste-crafted Ramilies Star Fort. Agreed. Though both would be up-gunned mightily because... Well, it's cool. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I've always considered the Iron Blood to be the most heavily armoured Legion flagship. It has less obvious weakpoints than all other *Gloriana-class vessels since Peturabo considered things like viewports to be an exercise in vanity. *Assuming the Iron Blood is a Gloriana-class vessel. In Vengeful Spirit, I remember the Iron Warrior that's with the Knights Errant saying something about how Perturabo had the Iron Blood fortified at the weak points where other legions left theirs (such as the bottom of the ship). Something along those lines. With respect, this is Graham McNeil. Modern Ships are protected against torpedo attacks, with armoured hulls and defensive seals to make even direct hits less life threatening (and hence why torpedoes work more by causing a reduced pressure beneath the ship and the ship falling into it, breaking its spine), while even when sapping against enemy castles, later castles had extra deep walls, and were counter-mined as well. Graham McNeil to say that underships on his flagship were unarmoured is as illogical as stating that enemy fortresses don't account for enemy airborne attacks like Heliborne, or Drop Troop, let alone Orbital Bombardment. Utterly ridiculous and indicative of how terrible that book was in general. @sitnam - unlikely. BFG has been a dead game since after Imperial Armour 3 (First Edition), which IIRC were the last published rules for it. If GW were to reopen the game for longer than a special edition game (I'm convinced that Dreadfleet was still a sick April's Fools joke pulled in the wrong month), and with FW releasing a tie-in series of rules, that might prove successful, but look at how GW are treating Space Hulk - a glorified biannual (?) cash cow with unique models that are pretty much universally purchased only for those sculpts by modellers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I liked Vengeful Spirit... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Phalanx shouldn't really be in contention at all, because it's pretty much just a space fort.I'd classify it alongside the Rock as a custom-built, maste-crafted Ramilies Star Fort. Agreed. Though both would be up-gunned mightily because... Well, it's cool. :D We at the first legion liked your big rock with guns attached to it. So we decided to make one of our own ;) I'd think the biggest, baddest capital ships would either be in the Word Bearer fleet (those Abyss class ships), the Death Gaurd, or the Imperial Fists. I still want to see what's in store for the 1st Legion as Abnett decreed that Bobby G went dark angels green with envy :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just give me the Iron Blood and the Conqueror, and I'll put the Imperium down like a rabid dog. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3909508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operative Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 After some looking around it seems that legions can have more than 1 Gloriana Class Battleship, namely the Alpha Legion who have both the Alpha and the Beta. Although I'm not sure if this is a 1 off... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3910076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operative Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 In Vengeful Spirit, I remember the Iron Warrior that's with the Knights Errant saying something about how Perturabo had the Iron Blood fortified at the weak points where other legions left theirs (such as the bottom of the ship). Something along those lines. Surely other Primarchs wouldn't be so stupid, this is space after all not the sea so when your fighting in 3 dimensions wouldn't the tactical genius of a Primarch fortify all around his ship. I mean after all you could just maneuver under the Battlebarge turn 90 degrees so your guns pointed "up" (is there an up in space?) and blast the underside of the enemy ship, surely this would be common sense to a Primarch (or maybe something only reserved for Alpharius) Graham McNeil to say that underships on his flagship were unarmoured is as illogical as stating that enemy fortresses don't account for enemy airborne attacks like Heliborne, or Drop Troop, let alone Orbital Bombardment. Utterly ridiculous and indicative of how terrible that book was in general. Fighting a planet wouldn't matter so much since you could tilt the side of your ship to face the planet but in space attacks from below surely would be commonplace.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301443-largest-and-most-powerful-legion-flagships/#findComment-3910090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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