Ravenwing: long-ranged de-meching

[Frater Cornelius]

This one has been bugging me a bit.

 

Sure, when playing Vanguard Strike or Dawn of War deployment, you can easily get into melta range of transports with scout move and so forth.

 

However, plenty of people bring Servo-Skulls to stop that. Worst case scenario: Hammer and Anvil deployment. Eldar opponent with Wave Serpents and Servo-Skulls blocking your scout move.

You will not be in melta range until T2, which might be too late against some opponents.

 

What is a decent RW answer? Go Dualwing with either DW drops or drop pods? Or do you get a ton of Landspeeders, Typhoon pattern, and at the very least force some jinks? Then there is also the marvelous Sicaran Battle Tank.

 

Thoughts?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Maybe reserve and ouflank? Sure it is a gamble but the opponent also doesn't know where andwhen he is getting hit from... with a bit luck you can also get a bit cover from the scenery.

[Varizel]

Pure Ravenwing? Land Speeder Typhoon is your buddy if it's just transports. 

[Frater Cornelius]

@ Varizel - It can be Dualwing as well. I am playing the entire codex, even though it is predominantly Ravenwing

 

@ Chaplain - Outflanking works great actually, especially when going first. Good call on that one. However, I find that this works best when you have a real tough character tanking for your main hammer on the table. I am not sure that Sammael is such a great tank for the Command Squad. With the inevitable Meltas doing their flanking move, there will be less targets on the table.

[SnakeChisler]

Hammer & Anvil is always reserve & outflank for me I hide and we always play with enough terrain, melta bikes are normally small enough to squirrel away and speeders can keep their heads down as well.

 

Bit of a boring turn in that I don't shoot but sometimes that's what it takes and you look at the bigger picture if they have no ignores cover then the Dark Shroud is a bit of a distraction with its 2+ jink 

[Solrac]

Deepstrike a couple of Land Speeders with Dual Multimeltas?

 

Besides outflanking you could also try a Green Command squad in a Pod with 5 Meltaguns. Only 10 pts more than a Vet Squad with combi's.

[Kabbala]

Sometimes with my pure RW list I'll use Sammael on Sableclaw as a distraction/tank. Something about an AV14 lanspeeder with a 4++ that just annoys people to dedicate an inordinate amount of firepower at him.

[Loar]

you could go for a trapdoor spider tactic.  Bunch up your ravenwing melta's and blackknights completely in or behind  LOS cover and only move to stay in cover or turboboost for objectives, maybe outflank some too if you have a way to modify reserve rolls or table edge.  Then use units that are for sure gonna cause wave serpents trouble.  The best I've found is a relic sicaran with schism of mars and lascannon sponsons: 2 lascannons and 6 twinlinked rending non-jink autocannon shots all with tank hunters is almost gauranteed to wreck a wave serpent a turn (always shoot the lascannon first to force him to jink, or he doesnt and you kill it that much more easily).  Position yourself in a corner so you aren't spread out and the sicaran (or multiple if you want to get dirty) can fire without getting full retaliation fire.  If you are using this tactic its pretty important you try and go second so he deploys first and you can choose which side of the table to focus on.

 

Its tough to pull off and its not gaurenteed to always work as its still a dice game after all, and it is very terrain reliant which can vary widely between clubs, player preference and general availibility, but it neutralizes much of his alpha if he has it.  It also puts you in a position where he has to decide to move up to deal with your MSU's capping objectives or stay back and get whittled down, in which case you can jump out from cover within range for your ravenwing to do what they do best.  I personally play a list like this but sub out pure ravenwing for a bit more of a mixed list that uses a landraider.  If forgeworld isn't allowed its much harder, but yeah like other people have said typhoons work well.  One unit in particular that works nicely is a max size typhoon squad with a lib bike in the middle of them with a pfg.  Lib gives them all +4 invulernable, can keep up with their movement, and can cast presience on them giving the whole squad rerolls to hit for everything (also keeps with the ravenwing fluff of speeders).

 

Until 7th ed codex update rolls out for eldar its always going to be an uphill battle, especially for dark angels, but ravenwing with some forgeworld and good tactics can still come out on top over eldar.  At least that has been my experience with them in our local meta.  Clever and carful use of our elite units cannot be stressed enough, especially with ravenwing and black knights against eldar, as our other units will have trouble dealing with eldar's superior manuverability.

[SvenONE]

Bring an Imperial Knight to lead the way? 12" move and a serious weapon.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I do not own a combat ready knight, but I do own a nifty Sicaran ;)

Considering to get a second one, but not sure if it is worth the Int-Chap tax.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Int-Chap on bike with Mace of Redemption is always worth it, attach him to Black Knights for the coolness of how they look (not to mention re-rolling 4 rending attacks each is useful) :D

[Frater Cornelius]

Aye, sounds legit. Re-rolls are always sexy. But fitting two or three Sicarans in requires a certain list. I am not sure if I go no mech and only bikes (FA slots filled with Knights), light mech with bikes, some speeders and a Sicaran or heavy mech with many Sicarans and Speeders and not as many bikes.

I nees to test it, but I guess it comes down to the effectiveness of Black Knight en mass as opposed to just two command squads or minimal CS with two Knight units in FA or something like that.

[Loar]

Int-Chap on bike with Mace of Redemption is always worth it, attach him to Black Knights for the coolness of how they look (not to mention re-rolling 4 rending attacks each is useful)

I find an Int-Champ to be tricky to use well. They are expensive and any upgrades you get for them is generally replacing gear you are already paying a hefty tax for, ie the power maul and invulnerable save. If you are running a pure ravenwing force its even harder, as you already are taking sammy meaning you have only 1 hq left. I cant stand not to have a libby on a bike, you lose too much I find just skipping a whole phase of the game and having no psychic hood for denies, if you don't have really really strong shooting to make up for it (read: Tau). The points also in using an int-champ over a lib really start to add up and you have a bunch of your army poured into just 2 models, for ravenwing you really need to not hamstring yourself too much on your model count as its already lower than other armies. Im not saying they don't work or its not good, just my style of play I find everytime I've taken the int-champ halfway through I wish I had a lib for psychic shriek or presience instead(will do the same as the int-champs buff but lasts a whole game turn instead of just first turn charge, handy for prolonged combats in the opponents phase before you hit and run out).

The alternative ive tinkered with is to not run a "true" ravenwing force and drop sammy altogether and get min scout squads or 5 man plasma/melta tacs in rhinos. This then gives you extra bodies and obsec units, and extra points to use the int-champ if you want for extra forgeworld goodies (main reason for using him imo, and at least you still get a decent cc character out of it).

[Larhendiel]

Long range meq?

-I got myself Contemtor with two t-linked autocannons and missile launchers, 4S7 and 2S8 with skyfire option, loove it, up to AV12 and could go against flyers

 

-solo Interogator chaplain on bike with mace of redemption, shroud of heroes and meltabombs up to AV14

 

-outflanking attack bikes up to AV14

 

-deep striking landspeeder or two geared with two multi-meltas (although I prefer typhoon variant) up to AV14

 

-Black knights up to AV13 and could go against flyers

 

These are the stuff I consider when taking care of enemy mechs

[Loar]

One other possibility is legion of the damned supplement.  Dropping a bunch of +3 invulnerables with ignore cover meltas in the backfield is a decent distraction unit, makes them have to stay back to deal with it or ignore it and suffer decent anti mech.  Gives the rest of your army more options for movement/attack and divides their fire in opposite directions.