Do you sometimes feel bored of Wolves?

[Frater Cornelius]

The youth these days...if they are not brawling throughout the Fang they are trying to fix what isnt broken

And when did the Long Fangs forget what it is to be young? To seek jovial discussion by the hearth brother to brother, to listen to the advice of both those whose hair is greying and those whose fangs barely show, ale in hand and fondness in heart?

Perhaps when the bleating of sheep is all the Long Fangs hear from Blood Claws, they chose to forget.

WLK

Look at you, all aloof and philosophical. Sure you do not belong in the Rock? :P

Perhaps, if the Long Fangs would actually listen instead of dismissing things as juvenile, they would not only understand, but things would actually happen. You never stop learning and dismissal is the biggest stopper to that process.

[TheWolfLord]

I fully understand what you mean Immersturm, the codex doesn't have any synergy or interesting combinations

 

What it does have is lots of powerful units that can give your opponent a hard time, yes TWC is the main one but Stormwolves, Murderfang, Axe/Shield Dreads, WGTDA, Bloodclaws, Grey Hunters and some good HQ choices.

 

Does it lead to a particular style of play? Yes 100%, space wolves are a great assault army now and hit like a truck but that's what they should be.

 

There are some interesting special rules, relics or formations that are interesting. Our opponents are going to expect a Alpha strike or TWC list, the fun in my opinion is putting units in your list that surprise your opponent or maybe not running a list quite how they expect.

 

The boredom you've described isn't unique to Wolves, most Space Marine lists are similar at the competitive level, many being, cent stars, bike stars or pod lists. Without lots of allies where is the synergy in a codex marine list? They simply rely on causing lots of damage very quickly.

 

I don't think the codex is bad, rather there are only a few efficient styles of play at the minute. You cannot ignore Eldar, Knight or Tau when building your list, without these armies building a more varied but competitive list would be much easier

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I agree with TheWolfLord. The codex does kinda shoehorn you into playing certain lists. I take allies, because they add some flavour and much needed alternatives. I'm a huge fan of the stormtalon, and the Stormraven is actually quite versatile. I use the Astartes Storm Wing to provide my air support. I also have a recently purchased knight that will be added to my collection as a Wolfsworn Freeblade, to provide some much needed on field fire support. That's how I plan on keeping my wolves fresh.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The youth these days...if they are not brawling throughout the Fang they are trying to fix what isnt broken

And when did the Long Fangs forget what it is to be young? To seek jovial discussion by the hearth brother to brother, to listen to the advice of both those whose hair is greying and those whose fangs barely show, ale in hand and fondness in heart?

Perhaps when the bleating of sheep is all the Long Fangs hear from Blood Claws, they chose to forget.

WLK

Look at you, all aloof and philosophical. Sure you do not belong in the Rock?

Perhaps, if the Long Fangs would actually listen instead of dismissing things as juvenile, they would not only understand, but things would actually happen. You never stop learning and dismissal is the biggest stopper to that process.

I cannot speak for every one of the Long Fangs present, but I've seen this mentality pop up after every new set of rules, revisions, FAQs or what have you makes people think that the way Wolves operate is somehow fundamentally different.

The majority of the Wolves adapt to the tweaks and over-come. Some leave to find rules that allow them to do what they want.

the rest bleat and try to improve what isnt broken.

7th Ed is a streamlined edition, with the *flair* removed from books and replaced with universal rules, with the majority of the codexes sharing these. This makes for a better game on both sides of the table.

It hasnt changed the Wolves, either their look or operation.

The only difference is the "baaaaah, baaaaaaaaaaah" from threads such as these and trying to take advantage of whatever the current meta is.

WLK

[Frater Cornelius]

What is the point, I ask you, to play rules you do not enjoy? I am certainly not the only one who is displeased with the removal or flavour. I do understand that it is a necessary sacrifice to make in order to bring everyone in line.

However, you are missing one major point. I am willing to listen to people with suggestions. I might be fairly adept when it comes to 40k, but I am far from infallible. There are always bits that might have eluded me and I tend to be very tunnel-vision-y at times, so maybe there is stuff I missed.

 

Besides, the codex itself is fine and I certainly wouldn't want 5ed one back. Do not mistake me for someone who whines at the removal of broken things. I played my fair share of Eldar and Tau and I did not stick around, because enjoyability comes before competitiveness. If you have to rely on a broken rule-set to win, then you were never a good player to begin with. I can write list after list after list and do well with SW. But it does not mean I enjoy it. If the look for alternatives is something that displeases or frightens you, then that is on you. If you are always pleased with what is given to you and never make an effort to get more out of things, then I pity you.

 

And finally, you seem to be no better than every whiner out there. At least most others do it in an attempt to get more out of the things they enjoy, or at least they have a feeling that there could be more. You look like the kind of person who forces himself to be content with whatever is given to him and frowns when others do not share his opinion and dare to question what is given. That old man sitting in his chair and frowning at people who are not pleased with certain things, firmly believing that he knows best.

And if you genuinely are pleased with the codex, then good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts. But do not try to force others to be content.

[dusara217]

From how much you've played Wolves, I completely understand why you'd be bored of it. Much like I got bored of Destiny after a couple weeks; nothing new that you can do, nothing but the same-old, same-old, even if it is unique, you've seen it before and know exactly how to use it yourself and know how to counter it. Just switch to a new army (like DA) and start playing them, so that you don't get bored of the entire hobby. 

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

If you dont enjoy something, move on. its that simple. trying to fit a square into a round peg doesnt work without dynamite.

 

everything else you said is a waste of time to respond to. Especially when Patton Oswald says it better than i can.

 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/xv7ng0/stand-up-patton-oswalt--acknowledging-beliefs

 

WLK

[Frater Cornelius]

'Impossible' is just an excuse. But fine, I am not looking for an all-out confrontation and I am sure neither do you. You have said your part and I did not care for it. Lets leave it at that.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Well, it seems that we have reached an impass. I like the new codex, I liked the old codex too, there was a ton of flavour and neat things that the old codex allowed us to do. It is still usable as long as you have a willing opponent. Now, the new codex, is rather simplistic, but it still allows us a great deal of flexibility. That said, if you feel bored of the Way you play space wolves, try a different way. I play a drop pod army, when I get bored of it, I'll play a mech rush. When I get bored with that I'll expand my TWC, and run a melee list. There are tons of possibilities, so just try something you don't do much. Or play another army for a while.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

What is the point, I ask you, to play rules you do not enjoy?

As Kieran and myself already said, if you don't like it, 'move on'. And you did. You went to BA then DA. You're looking for things and you did not find them. They were not in this codex.

 

 

 

Immersturm, on 10 Jan 2015 - 1:56 PM, said:

And finally, you seem to be no better than every whiner out there. At least most others do it in an attempt to get more out of the things they enjoy, or at least they have a feeling that there could be more.

Do you not realize this thread and it's concept is inherently whining??!! Do you think this thread alone will change anything about the codex?? What is the 'more' you are referring to?? Is this thread allowing the community access to this 'more' you speak of?? I ask this in a serious manner, not a rhetorical one. Explain.

 

 

 

Immersturm, on 10 Jan 2015 - 1:56 PM, said:You look like the kind of person who forces himself to be content with whatever is given to him and frowns when others do not share his opinion and dare to question what is given. That old man sitting in his chair and frowning at people who are not pleased with certain things, firmly believing that he knows best.

Do you know him? No. If you have read anything he has posted, hell go back and do it, you'll realize he is immensely versed in many things. He's only saying that this thread and it's ilk pops up on a regular basis, and like myself, he is sick of seeing it. Like YOU he is merely expressing his opinion. And it is as valid as yours. To some of us playing space wolves isn't a means to find an army that can win or isn't one dimensional. It's about being true to the army, win or lose. I have taken what Russ has given me, and used it to crush my enemies, like I have already said.

 

And if you genuinely are displeased with the codex, then good for you. Enjoy it while it lasts. But do not try to force others to be discontent.

It works both ways.

 

End of Line

 

[Mal Luck]

See this, this is what should have been avoided. With all due respect folks (and I respect all of you), you do realize you're getting heated and borderline-personal over a difference in opinion regarding a little figurine game? It's good if you're as vested in the game as it seems, but wouldn't it be better to put that passion into positive energy?

 

Now, asside from the tone of the conversation there are a few points I object to.

1. That this thread exists merely to whine. It exists to make note of someones problem, one that is shared by many based on the responses, and to attempt to find ways to address and deal with said problem. In fact many have made good suggestions on how to do so. That is the 'more' being referenced.

2. That anyone is attempting to 'fix' the dex. At no point has anyone suggested houserules, fandexs, or any tweaks to rules. They may be attempting to fix their/others perception of the dex, but definitely not the dex itself. And tbh nothing would be wrong with discussion of such things as long as everyone at the gaming table is okay with them.

3. That either staying true to the codex or moving on to a different ruleset is an inferior choice. Russ didn't give us this dex, a GW writer did. Russ gave us Wulfen via the geneseed, they gave us no way of representing that in the rules of the dex. They did give us a good and solid dex though, so if staying to it makes you feel more SW then that is fine - but moving to different rules does not make one a whiner, discontent, powergamer or anything else.

 

So, shall we cease the unnecessary hostility and get back to the question at hand for those that care to answer it?

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! You think I am upset??!! I am not at all, I am as serious as a heart attack.

 

I appreciate you playing referee, Mal Luck.

 

Lets talk about this.

The opening post was made to state the displeasure of playing wolves and the one sided aspect of the codex, and was also made clear that the fluff was not what was under scrutiny. Only the rules. Nothing said in this thread will directly change a single thing in a book already written. This thread and it's only purpose can be nothing more than to talk about something that is static. It will not waver. Your response about making a fandex or house rules was the first thing to vaguely suggest or offer another resolution. And while you make well thought out and intelligently expressed counter point, I feel you too are missing what some of us are saying. 

 

Staying true to the codex, and moving away from it are the two options. It's not lazy and it is not inferior at all. You either play the codex or you don't, I fail to see other options. I guess you could play the codex and hate it and complain, that's an option. Or, you could play a different codex and love/hate it and rejoyce. Making threads titled much like this one have plagued these boards for a long time, brother. This will not be the last one. I am suggesting that if you do not like the way this codex runs, try another one. Do you think Immy has not gone over this codex with a fine toothed comb looking for ways to make it work?? I promise you he has, and will say 'then you don't know him'. And if he and every other member who had read this entire thread front to back has not reached a decision in regards to the presented questions, they are not paying attention. This thread is a red pill or a blue pill, if you will. If it was meant to do anything other than vent about ones disapproval, it would of been titled and then introduced to the frater in a much different way. Whinning may be the wrong word to use in it's description, this could be true. But the purest form of it is to complain. So that leaves the frater to post suggestions that are really only tactical maneuvers that can be made. Those would of fit into a thread titled 'Lets talk about possible synergistic strategies' or something of that nature. But the title of the thread does not read like that, nor does Immy's opening post. Do you see the difference that I am getting at??

 

If you think I am seriously under the belief that 'Russ himself', a fictional character, gave us the codex from the far a distant future himself...uh, then, uh...

I say that it was given by 'Russ himself' or however I worded it, as a charge. As I mentioned once already and will do so again, I could give two shakes of a Fenrisian wolves tail whether or not this codex can make me win, or make synergistic, well balanced lists. I also realize some of you do care about that. If you are looking to other codices for that, I could care less, go do it. But if you are going to start talking trash in the Fang, you best get ready to dodge some elk leg, brothers.

 

I am done with this thread, I will not post in it further, as I feel, nay, hope that my point is at least understood, even if it is not agreed upon.

 

End of Line

[Mal Luck]

Good to hear you're not of a negative mood RPR. It can be difficult to infer these things from text chat. Just going to preface this by saying that my response to you is in no way an attempt to draw you back to this thread, I can understand and respect your choice to leave it - just want to clarify some of what was meant in my previous post.

 

It could well be I am missing some of what you're saying, so to double check I've re-read the thread and in fact it seems generally we're talking at similar ends. The codex will not change of course (until 8-9e), I think we all acknowledge that. But what can change is how we play either the game, via which codex we use (as you yourself have suggested throughout) or the level at/mentality with which we play the game (WLK + others). Our perspectives are always open to change and there is also the possibility some tactics with the codex have been missed as well, as they sprout up/change all the time. Believe me, I am in no way saying that anyone's suggestions are less valid than others, I just took objection to the fact it seemed some felt such a discussion wasn't even worth having. Discussion is often beneficial, as long as the parties involved are open to it, not just for those involved but also viewing from the outside.

 

Ultimately yes, any other option would fall under one of those two - although there are variables of each in regards to playstyle, setting, etc. Perhaps I am am just too optimistic, but it would seem to me that the natural progression of "this is my problem" should always be "how to fix it?" - if it isn't then merely stating the problem (publicly) would be pointless, or as you say complaining. It does seem most the responses assumed as much and I'd give the OP benefit of the doubt and say it was his intent to seek advice and answers beyond a simple "yes I am bored too" or "no I'm enjoying it", but it wasn't made particularly clear and as such we were admittedly making assumptions to that effect.

Aha of course not. My response was of the same ilk (Russ didn't give us Wulfen anymore than he gave us a 'dex, both are the credit of whichever GW/BL writer came up with them), but was designed to show that there are other reasons for looking to an outside dex beyond seeking wins, synergy or whatever else. It can also be an attempt to replicate the fluff, established or otherwise. But, as we both seem in agreement that neither choice is inherently better/more noble/etc, that's just semantics really.

Glad we had this chat - look forward to seeing you around, in other threads if not here.