New Catachan player... any tips?

[bigted]

Hi everyone

Today I bought the Catachan defense force, my first IG set. I was looking for some advice on playing guard. Which units should I be using, what tactics are viable and what sort of army composition fits in with the Catachan fluff. Also, what should I model my squads with in terms of special and heavy weapons? What about the command squad? Really, any tips for a new guard player would be much appreciated .

[Ldorte]

Welcome to the guard!

 

It depends whether you're building a world conquering force that always requires victory or whether you're building an army that you're just looking to muck around with.

 

Catachan have always come across as a more infantry based force to me, so veteran squads and lots of flamers, in chimera's with hull mounted flamers supported by wyverns and hellhounds would fit well I think. Perhaps some Ratlings aswell?

 

Can't really help with the command squad as I usually run a tank commander.

[hendrik]

any type of regiment is possible as often regiments only found out what sort of a regiment they will be after they were tithed. in fact, after raising the regiment any previous structure is simply removed and the regiment becomes whatever role the minutorum wants. regiments are also composed of primary one service arm, be it artillery, infantry, armour or specialists such as abhumans. Each regiment can exist between 3 to 20 companies. However it is rare to have a regiment trained in more than one of the doctrines of warfare.

 

with that in mind, what sort of regiment do you wish your main fighting force to be? what attracted you to the imperial guard? waves and waves of men? the thundering blitz of armour, or our dreaded ordonance?

 

note that going for an armoured regiment does not mean that you will not include troops. in fact, here's a picture of the setup of the 19th Konig regiment during the Icaedus campaign:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/konigp1_zpsd78ccf8d.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb281/amorfatipictures/konigp2_zpsf31b6452.jpg

while the focus of an armoured regiment lies on heavy armour it includes a lot more, and each specification is assigned to a company. in fact, here's a total overview:

 

45 leman russ

10 demolishers

12 basilisk

9 hydras

11 sentinels

9 sentinel powerlifters

13 salamanders

3 destroyers

3 medusa

9 cyclops

3 bridges

94 chimeras

35 trojans

6 atlas

3 baneblades

1 shadowsword

266 vehicles in total, 1894 men enlisted

 

many people tend to play catachans as a more foot orientated regiment, but their is nothing unfluffy about making them an armoured regiment, after all the minutorum decides what sort of a regiment they need.

I've also found that with the new maelstrom mission gametype an armoured regiment has the benefit to allow a great deal of flexibility while still able to put enough feet on the ground (i'm never going to own or paint 1894 guardsmen anyway!!)

[apologist]

As ldorte and Hendrik have pointed out, almost anything is perfectly acceptable to play as guard, whatever the regiment or models you use. After all, this is an Imperium of a million worlds!

 

That said, the iconic image of the Catachans is a mish-mash of testosterone-fuelled eighties movies like Predator, Rambo etc. with pop-culture Vietnam/Korean war movies. If that's what appealed to you, there's a lot to play around with. I'd suggest a core of veteran infantry – Catachans have always been independent and resourceful (i.e. quite happy to 'requisition' some additional flamers behind some pencil-pushing official's back), and the veteran structure works better for them than the more ordered guard platoon approach.

 

If you're after theme, I'd suggest an emphasis (but not an obsession) with flamers for your special weapons, and heavy flamers, bolters and mortars for heavies. These are more suited to jungle-fighting than other weapons. In comparison to other weapons, they're not particularly effective in game, so you'll need to find your preferred balance between Catachan theme and table effectiveness. Autocannons and melta guns are go-to weapons if you're after all-round punch.

 

You also have some specific Catachan characters in 'Iron Hand' Straken and Sergeant Harker, both of whom complement a heavy infantry approach well, and fit beautifully into the gung-ho character of the Catachans. Straken in particular is good for giving your infantry a boost, and is the nearest the Guard get to a proper mincing machine in combat.

 

Around this core, I'd add some ogryns – they've long been associated with Catachans and help to add some characteristic close-in punch. Mutually supporting ogryns with veteran squads armed with flamer(s) can work well against infantry – rinse 'em with flames and lasbolts then charge in the ogryns.

 

Jungle-fighting tanks that work well include light artillery (Wyverns and Griffons) and the various template tanks like Hellhounds. A couple of Leman Russ tanks won't hurt the theme, and they provide some decent anti-tank. My personal favourite for  Catachans is the much-maligned Eradicator. It's low strength and poor AP means most dismiss it, but ignoring cover is useful in a surprising number of situations – not least night fight, where you can surprise infiltrating forces. S6 AP4 will kill Space Marine scouts, along with almost all non-elite eldar, tau, orks, tyranids and necrons. It's well worth trying out.

 

You're (sadly) unlikely to be fighting over jungle terrain all the time, so bear that in mind. 

 

Good luck, and welcome to the corps! :)

[WarriorFish]

Welcome ted, good to see some Catachans! Would that GW saw the light of their awesomeness too... As for the background the Catachan are usually shown as a predominantly infantry force but they still have plenty of armoured support so you can build your regiment as you like and still be true to their lore :) Following on from that, what sort of army would you like to build? As hendrik said there are several ways a Guard army can run, plus all the variations in a hybrid force (which is the common way of playing, in some form). Not that it matters too much as most Guard armies soon grow to be able to cover all types ;) It will be good to get started though.

 

To start with get a healthy number of troopers, generally a couple of the box sets will set a new Guard player up very well so that's a good idea if you can. A Chimera or two is useful, especially for command units but you can add almost what you like. Fast Attack choices are great for Catachan armies, as they like their Sentinels and Hellhounds (who doesn't?) but you can go for artillery and Russes too :)

[apologist]

The poor quality of the plastic troops (along with the release of plastic Cadians) went a long way to killing off player support for what had been a very successful metal line for GW. However, while the plastic troops are fairly poor in quality, the heavy weapon and command plastics are great, and the metal line can often be bought for a song second-hand; certainly cheaper than most guard metals.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, when the Catachan CCS came out that was a spark of hope that alas GW has let go out. All they need is new trooper models and they'd be fine - as I've long said 3 boxes and GW has us an entirely new Guard line...

[bigted]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I kinda want to do an infantry force with veteran squads, maybe an Aegis line to help them survive? I would also like to have some artillery to provide fore support. I'm not so keen on Ogryns because they're so expensive (money wise). I really want to have some snipers because they're so cool, though I'm not sure how effective they are. I might have to make some house rules for them . I'm not so sure about whether I want to use Chimeras or not. Do you guys think there's a chance of a Catachan supplement down the line?

[hendrik]

what point levels are you aiming at? for starters i would include a couple of veteran squads with forward sentries. do the boards that you game on feature a lot of terrain, or not? personally i don't think an aegis line fits that well into the theme of jungle fighters, and i prefere to spend those points on more units.

Here's a mock up list to start out, based on what you have already purchased and can convert out of it:

 

-company command squad: 2 plasmaguns,missile launcher, camo gear,  bolter+carapace armour  (commander) 129pts

-veteran squad: 2 plasmaguns, missile launcher,  forward sentries, bolter (sgt) 116 pts

-veteran squad: 2 plasmagun,   missile launcher, forward sentries 115 pts

-leman russ (magnetize!!): eradicator, heavy bolter, heavy bolter sponsons 140 pts

500 pts to the letter.

 

i didn't include snipers since these are generally not worth it unless taken as ratlings (which i would avoind taking in battles below 1000pts). note that by including the heavy weapon teams in the squads you'll have 6 spare bodies, so you could convert these into mini-catachan ratlings? the chimera could be kepts as a chimera, or converted into a wyvern or hellhound with the right choice of bits/plasticard.

 

note that i picked the missile launcher due to it's versatility. if possible consider magnetising your heavy weapon teams as well. it's a lot of work, but will end up saving you a lot, considering their price.

obviously at such low point levels it's hard to make an optimal list, however this list is capable of dealing with 2+armour, medium armour and all round infantry. it relies heavely on their coversave though to remain alive since the only distraction unit is a single leman russ...

to upgrade to 750 pts level i would recommend getting at least 3 more infantry squads and another command squad.

you will need to decide how you want to deal with your heavy weapons. will you keep them mixed in your veteran squads, or make them heavy weapon squads. both have their distinct advantages and drawbacks. offcourse you could always mix it up by doing both. In case you wish to use heavy weapon squads you'll need to include at least 1 platoon.

[FashaTheDog]

Funny thing, Catachans once had their own supplement back in 3^rd, so if Guard get one then that is likely. As for those Ogryns, yes a box of three is $47, but a unit of three is 130-190 points depending on how you build them. Compare that to the $29 Catachan Jungle Fighters box that is 50-70 points (more with other bits/kits), which means that the Ogryns are the better deal when you look at the points per dollar spent at 2.7-4 points/$1 for Ogryn box compared to 1.7-2.4 points/$1 for the Catachan box.

Now snipers are not as good as last edition, what with the loss of pinning (but you can order them (or anyone else) to be now if it really bothers you ), but they give you the ability to hurt anything with a toughness value, excepting Alpharius. They also have the precision shot rule on to hit rolls of '6' allowing you to pick out enemy special and heavy weapons. If you roll a '6' to wound they are AP2, which is always nice. For fun they are also S4 against vehicles so in a pinch they can do what you lasguns cannot; hurt light armor, just don't count on it. At a whole 2 points, they are a good deal for what you get, but may not be the logical choice due to other weapons choices. By themselves in a unit they are good, but Ratlings do it better, however, they are not Troops which is of minor concern. Sniper rifles are a good choice when you want to eat up a few points on a backfield unit like a Command Squad that has the room, although Special Weapons Squads with three of them can in the right list be a fun flourish.

Basilisks and Wyverns are fun choices and can easily be seen as part of a jungle army theme since they are barrage. In the same vein you can take Valkyries and go with an air cav motif instead of Chimeras. For a Catachan theme, Scout Sentinels are a great fluffy unit that in larger numbers can be somewhat overwhelming for a fair number of armies and are cheap enough, points-wise, that they are not smothering you.

Now on to non gaming related info. There are a number of Catachan books out you may want to consider reading if you like the idea of an army from world actively hostile to non-indigenous life colonized by John Rambo and Alan "Dutch" Schaefer. Death World and Waiting Death by Steve Lyons, Straken by Toby Frost, and the out of print Codex Catachans (seen it go for a buck or two on eBay or as dusty stock at local gaming stores) are all fun sources of Catachan fluff to dive into.

[bigted]

I eventually want to build up to 2k points, maybe more so I have lots of options with which units to take. I want at least 1 full company, maybe 2, along with some armoured and artillery support. I prefer veterans to platoons as they seem to fit better with the Catachans. My games have a moderate amount of terrain, not a huge amount but enough to stay in cover most of the time. Thanks for the list, it looks pretty good and I'll definitely give it a try when I get home in a couple of weeks. I don't really like ratlings, but making some counts-as ratlings out of Catachans seems like something I could do. I will hopefully magnetise all my weapon teams, tanks and special weapon troopers (something I wish I'd done with my Blood Angels). I'm not sure what I want to do with my heavy wep squads and the Chimera, I'll probably play a few games and see what I like most.

EDIT @Fasha

You posted as I was writing this . I see your point about Ogryns, I might have to get a box or two. i don't have the rulebook on me ATM as I'm on holiday, but don't sniper rifles auto wound on 4+ and have no strength value? I might get a special wep squad with 3 sniper rifles just because they're cool, and I could use them as ratlings if I wanted. I'm pretty much decided on getting a basilisk now, maybe a Wyvern or two, they would be great at supporting my advancing vet squads. Scout sentinels are cool but at the price of an entire squad I'll probably skip them until I have a solid base for my army. I'd like to read those books, thanks for pointing them out.

[Sviar]

Welcome to the Guard BigTed

 

I looked up what the defence force contained, it offered a great deal like a Russ for instance, may I suggest that you at least build one HWT with an Autocannon. I looked it up because I was sure that they contained one Sentinel, however it didn't. So my advice is that you get a couple of those and a little more Catachans and play a game or two to see what you think are lacking.

I really want to have some snipers because they're so cool, though I'm not sure how effective they are.

 

If you think snipers are cool don't hesitate to get them. Ratlings are effective snipers. But does it matter? At my LGC people pointed out to me that my Special Weapons Squad with three demolitions(mixed plastic and metal Catachans btw) charges was not effective enough. I of course didn't care because it would be fun to field them and that is all that matters.

[Jacinda]

Wow, thanks for all the replies! I kinda want to do an infantry force with veteran squads, maybe an Aegis line to help them survive? I would also like to have some artillery to provide fore support. I'm not so keen on Ogryns because they're so expensive (money wise). I really want to have some snipers because they're so cool, though I'm not sure how effective they are. I might have to make some house rules for them . I'm not so sure about whether I want to use Chimeras or not. Do you guys think there's a chance of a Catachan supplement down the line?

An infantry force really wants to be in cover and 12" away from the target. This gives the best rate of fire while still having a chance of not being charged on the next turn. The more you use a defense line, the less mobility the army has and thus the harder it is to be in prime kill range.

I don't want to come out and say "here is how you should play" since there are several options available but ... here is how I run my guard.

I like a balanced list. A bit of everything. Start with a Company Command Squad, a Russ Squadron, one Platoon with 3 squads and a couple of veteran squads. Add Wyverns, Vendetta or Sentinels as desired.

What they do:

- Company Command Squad gets a chimera, vox, medic and two snipers. Commander takes Kurova's Aquila for the Prefered Enemy bubble. They are for orders and preferred enemy only; otherwise they stay back and try not to look threatening

- Russ Squadron is usually Pask in the tank commander squadron. Pask in a Punisher, wingman gets an Executioner. Other options are just as good so don't assume I am saying these are mathematically the best or anything. It depends on what you want from the unit. Do not put sponson upgrades on anything with an Ordanence weapon.

- The Platoon takes 1 vox, 3 grenade launchers and 3 autocannons. The Platoon Command ... wow. Lots of options. Flamers, plasma guns, meltaguns, maybe mobile in a chimera, maybe on foot near the infantry squads. The Infantry squads will blob up and man a quadgun behind an Agies Defense Line. I will usually also put the Russ squadron behind the ADL to start with and scatter the infantry around them. Bubble wrap, as they say. Also make sure at least one model from the blob is within 6" of the company command vehicle. The same goes for the tanks.

- Veteren squads take either plasma or meltaguns and ride in a chimera. Very rarely do they take a vox since they will be mobile, forward ranging units and probably out of range of orders most of the game. If they need orders (probably tank hunter or ignore cover for the plasma) they have a good chance of getting them with their leadership already. So .. melta to hunt heavy armor, plasma for heavy infantry, monsterous creatures and characters. Veterens and their rides will also grab objectives when they can.

For the extras, nothing smashes infantry gun lines at range like a squadron of Wyverns. They are not so hot against vehicles, tho.

For air support, I like Vendettes over Valkeries but I want the anti-tank punch I get from the Vendetta.

Sentinels are fun. Scout or armored. Plasma cannons or auto-cannons. They all have a good argument for their use.

Basilisks beat Manticores, but I really don't use either. Death Strike Missiles are fun, too, but I don't think they fit the Catachan sytle.

Finally, priests. Get a couple. One for the platoon blob and one with plasmagun to join your plasma carrying vet squad.

Anyway, those are my basic tactics. Use or ignore as you see fit because it is most certianlly not the only way and probably not the best way to play. But I enjoy it.

[FashaTheDog]

I eventually want to build up to 2k points, maybe more so I have lots of options with which units to take. I want at least 1 full company, maybe 2, along with some armoured and artillery support. I prefer veterans to platoons as they seem to fit better with the Catachans. My games have a moderate amount of terrain, not a huge amount but enough to stay in cover most of the time. Thanks for the list, it looks pretty good and I'll definitely give it a try when I get home in a couple of weeks. I don't really like ratlings, but making some counts-as ratlings out of Catachans seems like something I could do. I will hopefully magnetise all my weapon teams, tanks and special weapon troopers (something I wish I'd done with my Blood Angels). I'm not sure what I want to do with my heavy wep squads and the Chimera, I'll probably play a few games and see what I like most.

EDIT @Fasha

You posted as I was writing this . I see your point about Ogryns, I might have to get a box or two. i don't have the rulebook on me ATM as I'm on holiday, but don't sniper rifles auto wound on 4+ and have no strength value? I might get a special wep squad with 3 sniper rifles just because they're cool, and I could use them as ratlings if I wanted. I'm pretty much decided on getting a basilisk now, maybe a Wyvern or two, they would be great at supporting my advancing vet squads. Scout sentinels are cool but at the price of an entire squad I'll probably skip them until I have a solid base for my army. I'd like to read those books, thanks for pointing them out.

Yes they wound on a 4+ as well regardless of toughness, but against vehicles they are S4. Alpharius, the Alpha Legion Primarch, has a special rule that makes them immune to poison, which was why I threw that "excepting" bit out there, but don't worry about him too much as they are a Horus Heresy character. Sniper rifles are also an easy conversion, just lengthen the barrel of a lasgun and add a scope (every Marine player has loads they never use, you could easily find a trade from someone).

[Idlem]

I'd be surprised if we saw a guard supplement down the road this year, let alone a Catachan one. I wouldn't hold my breath too much for one, bright side being that I think the current guard codex does a pretty good job of covering a themed army for them. Vets with camo cloaks, Strakken, there's not much from the old PDF that you can't do with our current rules.

 

I echo most of the advice already said on here. If you're going for fluffy I'd lean to more infantry vets and light vehicles. Little to no Commissars, but many Ogryns! Catachans get along well with their giant buddies.