Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Fair enough. Bring the positivity, guys. Maybe I will more positive as a result ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think DA won't change much at the core even if it gets formations/detachments. I don't believe DW and RW will be formations for the reason that they are foundation stones of DA identity since ages and they exist to give Belial and Sammael a purpose and vice versa plus a formation is unwieldy and I don't think that GW will pidgeon hole us to just have a multiple of 1HQ,1 Troops , 1 Elite terminators for example.. Its not like the BA were while assumed to be codex adherent someone thought that Assault Marines should be Troops despite it being non-sensical (IMHO) Even if we do get them in formation I think the will still be pretty playable... Now, as for relics and other items, I don't think they will change much. If they take away the dakka banner, we'll find a way to put those almost 100 points to good use, the same applies to other items. DA have survived longer without dakka banners and the likes so despite being a loss we will still manage somehow. :) And for a little heretic thought: maybe taking away DW and RW as choices will make us apreciate the green DA more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 HERETIC indeed!! Take yourself off to Chamber 42 forthwith :p Don't say that again, I nearly fainted. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 HERETIC indeed!! Take yourself off to Chamber 42 forthwith Don't say that again, I nearly fainted. Cheers I Word. The next time I field a Tactical Marine, hell will freeze over. I will be okay with DW and RW becoming detachments. Maybe it will open some even better combinations. After all, 7ed allows to take multiple detachments and it is only a question of time until tournaments get away from their usual Primary+Allies thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Eh, formations aren't all that bad, and as long as special rules like Vengeful Strike are not tied to a Formation, shouldn't be a problem in the long run. Hopefully it means more special rules that enhance the abilities of DW/RW if you take their formation rather than moving rules like DWA or Vengeful assault or Scouts/Hit&Run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Eh, formations aren't all that bad, and as long as special rules like Vengeful Strike are not tied to a Formation, shouldn't be a problem in the long run. Hopefully it means more special rules that enhance the abilities of DW/RW if you take their formation rather than moving rules like DWA or Vengeful assault or Scouts/Hit&Run If they truly enhance DW and RW through their respective detachments as opposed to moving the existing rules there, then I will bow my head and apologize out loud in my local GW store during rush hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here's my predictions for a 7th edition DA codex: -Relics -- Retooled a bit, with the Monster Slayer sword and the Shroud becoming better and the Powerfield Generator being added as a "Techmarine only" Relic so you can only have one per army -Relic Banners -- I think these will stay pretty much the same, but the Banner of Devastation will likely become simpler, something like "all units within 6" of bearer gain Rending to their shooting attacks" instead of the Salvo application for selected Boltguns. -WL Traits -- Pretty similar to present, I imagine. -Characters -- Likely to lose their ability to impact the FOC chart, but also get a decent points reduction. Characters like Asmodai, which are currently very underpowered, will likely get a big improvement in their capabilities (like what happened to Ulrik the Slayer from the new SW codex). -HQ -- No change to Librarians, Chaplains, or Techmarines I think, and I also expect Interrogator-Chaplains will remain (to give DA something unique from all the other Space Marine books, who lost their Reclusiarch access in 7th edition). Company Masters will probably get some slight improvement, whether access to Bikes or Relic Blades or something else which will improve their overall utility. -Deathwing units -- I bet both DW Termies and DW Knights get a points reduction and, as mentioned in this thread, simpler rules for their Deep Striking arrival. -Ravenwing units -- Not too many changes here, except maybe lower points costs and simpler rules for RAS, especially the whole weird Combat Squad rules. I also predict they reduce the cost of Darkshrouds and improve the stats of the Land Speeder Vengeance (maybe it shoots either a 36" S7 AP2 large blast or a 24" S7 AP2 Heavy 6, kind of like the Exocrine from the Tyranids codex). -Greenwing units -- These are already in line with most Space Marine books points-wise, but I bet Scouts get a further discount and Veterans get even more wargear options to put them in line with Wolf Guard, Vanguard, Sternguard, etc. etc. -Flyers -- I predict the biggest changes here, making both options significantly cheaper and adding some abilities (i.e. missiles on Nephilim become better, Rift Cannon on Dark Talon becomes AP2, etc.), both to make DA more competitive in the air and to help sell more of these dual kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 One good formation can potentially change the competitiveness of a whole codex. Imagine if the formation we got a Christmas hadn't been quite so prescriptive. What would the potential of a formation alowing several relentless tac squads and a dakka banner have been. As ever with DA it was close but no cigar but here's to staying optimistic for the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 -HQ -- No change to Librarians, Chaplains, or Techmarines I think, and I also expect Interrogator-Chaplains will remain (to give DA something unique from all the other Space Marine books, who lost their Reclusiarch access in 7th edition). Company Masters will probably get some slight improvement, whether access to Bikes or Relic Blades or something else which will improve their overall utility. I don't agree here... Following what I've been done in BA codex, we can bet that command squad will become Elite and that they'll occupy a slot, just like techmarine. I think GW is tired to sell techmarines and veterans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 i guess the layout of the new DA codex would be like this LoW Azrael - like now with EW HQ Sammael - bike or LS no more unlocking RWAS as troops Belial - no more unlocking DWTS as troops Asmodai Ezekiel Company Master Interrogator Chaplain Chaplain Librarian - points for ML2 reduced like in other AA codices Techmarine - no more free slot doesn't require another HQ Elite DWTS DWCS DWK RWCS CS Covets Dreadnought Venerable dreadnought RWBK could be moved into elite Troops Tactical Squad -access to grav guns Scout squad Fast Attack RWBK if not moved to elite RWAS get access to grav guns RWSS nephilim DSDT assault squad Heavy support LSV LRLRCLRR Predator vindicator WW Devastators FOC DA FOC RW FOC DW FOC Formations - I guess minor tweaks here and there... power level as BA codex more or less NO new units, maybe some kits (i guess tactical squad in DA style with grav guns and Plasma cannon as heavy Weapon in the kit and a couple of clampacks like an interrogator chaplain in TDA) Neat and simple... If they didn't screw it it will be playable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think that's pretty close to the org changes we'll see. It's what they do to each unit and relics that'll be the defining changes. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Don't forget, following the current trends, they will lkely make Drop Pods, Razrobacks, and Rhinos into Fast Attack options. Of these, of course Drop Pods are the most signficant, allowing DW Terminators and allied units the option to ride a pod, if they so choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Isn't the whole beauty of DW that they have no need for DP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 i guess the layout of the new DA codex would be like this LoW Azrael - like now with EW HQ Sammael - bike or LS no more unlocking RWAS as troops Belial - no more unlocking DWTS as troops Asmodai Ezekiel Company Master Interrogator Chaplain Chaplain Librarian - points for ML2 reduced like in other AA codices Techmarine - no more free slot doesn't require another HQ Elite DWTS DWCS DWK RWCS CS Covets Dreadnought Venerable dreadnought RWBK could be moved into elite Troops Tactical Squad -access to grav guns Scout squad Fast Attack RWBK if not moved to elite RWAS get access to grav guns RWSS nephilim DS DT assault squad Heavy support LSV LR LRC LRR Predator vindicator WW Devastators FOC DA FOC RW FOC DW FOC Formations - I guess minor tweaks here and there... power level as BA codex more or less NO new units, maybe some kits (i guess tactical squad in DA style with grav guns and Plasma cannon as heavy Weapon in the kit and a couple of clampacks like an interrogator chaplain in TDA) Neat and simple... If they didn't screw it it will be playable... i'd be comfortable with this, only addition would be wishing, hoping and praying to whatever deity that MkV Mortis become part of the codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have a very shiny copy of IA2 Second Ed that lets me use them anyway, not having in in the dex is a great excuse to spend more money on shiny books ;) It would be nice to have a one stop shop and would keep us looking 'special' too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have a very shiny copy of IA2 Second Ed that lets me use them anyway, not having in in the dex is a great excuse to spend more money on shiny books It would be nice to have a one stop shop and would keep us looking 'special' too. You are right, and they are the only reason I myself own IA2. Even there they acknowledge the DA Mortis heritage by removing the 0-1 constraint that others are subject to. Given the BA and SW getting "Special" Dreads though is the reason I hope and speculate we might get our own, either Mortis or Chaplain Dread. I like MkV Mortis for the Anti-Air it offers GW and DW (I say that like it's news to everyone here! ), and would foresee Mortis with a DW Vehicle tax if you wanted them in a DW army/formation/detachment/whatever. Either that or who wouldn't field an Interrogator Dreadnought Chaplain alongside a squad of DW Knights just for laughs!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I field my Chaplain Dread quite often as it is. We do run the risk that GW will reduce the quality of the Mortis if they include it in the dex, imagine it without interceptor? Take care for what you wish, you just might get it :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 On the models side DA are a great opportunity for GW cause we have two HQ that are still in metal (Azrael and Ezekiel), a Sabreclaw kit that is mixed with the RW conversion kit, a veterans kit that has parts for DW inside no more needed... The veterans and RW conversion sprues are 8 years old now so they could receive a new incarnation and the parts we will lose (like the dread parts) could end in new kits (DA dread kit for example) and they could do new plastic SW didnt received a new type of dreadnought but just a SC one and they still have the venerable dread with just new weapon options... We could receive a "DWK dread" with huge mace and shield but that would be Too similar to the axe and shield option SW have... On the rules side we need a points drop on several things and some rules tweaks on some equipments... The problem about points drop is DW cause terminators in General are still overcosted... Since 3rd edition TDA gained 5++ save and had a point drop of just 2 point that is 5% less... On the other side basic Marines had a point drop from 18 points (equipped with grenades) to 14 points and gained the bolt pistol that is a drop point of about 23%... In this situation it's hard to believed that DWT can drop from the 44 points per model they are now considering that BA Terminators are still 40 points per model and with the same crappy options they had before... RW on the other side pays 6 points per model the teleport homer (27 points per model compared to 21 points per model of the vanilla bikes) so a drop to 24/25 points per model is possible... The BK could the drop from 40/42 points per model to the more correct 35 points per model... DS is a bit costt at 80 points per model now that jinking got needed so it needs a point drop (60/70 points per model) or a little tweak (in rules or stats) and the Sacred Standards and other equipments/units/SC need points drops too... LSV, BoC, NJF, DT they all need some additional rules and points drops too... Taking the BA codex as example there are many areas that can have fixings but I doubt FW will fix them all... I still feel that our codex will be the "weakest" in the Astartes lot (including the CSM too)... But the models will remain, together with BA ones, the coolest looking in the SM range and it's enough for me to keep collecting DA (and now Flesh Tearers)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think people shouln't pay too much atention to BA because we never mirrored them much. Sure some general stuff that has been going on like Chapter Masters getting LoW will happen, but our Codex can't handle the same treatment as other Marine Codexes due to our peculiarities and I'm sure GW will be aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think people shouln't pay too much atention to BA because we never mirrored them much. Sure some general stuff that has been going on like Chapter Masters getting LoW will happen, but our Codex can't handle the same treatment as other Marine Codexes due to our peculiarities and I'm sure GW will be aware of that. Losing the troops status is not a big deal imho, with everything scoring and the availability of Unbound. Formations and detachments should patch it up. In that formation if GW is keen to preserve the capability of scoring for our DW and RW, they will probably include an Objective Secure rule. I am hoping for something to help us smash the opponents more though than objective secure. I honestly think streamlining to a 7th ed codex design is a wonderful opportunity for the army to expand via detachment and formations, but that's me. The whole FOC shifting is a thing of the end of 4th ed and 5th ed relics, i do not hold hope that it'll last come next codex. One thing for certain though, we will have to buy 2 books minimum for sure. The codex with barebone rules and most likely battle company formation and detachment as per all 7th ed codex, and then the awesome sauce formations in either campaign book or supplement. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 It is more a list of what has yet to be done, not any rumor, and of course any such list will be accurate...ish. It reads like a scene from Half Baked: [scene: living room, a smokey haze lazily floats in the air...everywhere.] Brian: "Dude! I totally heard what is coming out next!" Thurgood: "You did?" Brian: "Yeah, man. I totally did!" Thurgood: "Well, what is it?!" Brian: "Stuff that hasn't come out yet!" Mind. Blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Revelation 2015 - Dark Angels 7ed Codex has not come out yet :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 No harm in a bit of speculative guesswork :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I more or less agree with the sentiments here. Maybe we should actually try opening a line of communication with GW? I know they have hearts of black stone, but perhaps there is a possibility that they'll see we aren't trying to get an auto-win codex but one that is colorful and enjoyable to play. My hopes and desires I suppose would be as follows: Azrael - He's a great support character and shouldn't be a lord of war. Instead he should have rules that allow him to mess with the enemy's deployment and remain otherwise unchanged. Belial - This should be our lord of war. He did go toe-to-toe with Gazkghul and survive afterall. He's also our only special character in terminator armor. They could turn him into a close combat power house that can take a meaner version of the Flail of the Unforgiven. Sammael - Keep him exactly the same. Ezekial - Make mind worm a bit more useful. Right now it either kills whatever it hits, or can't wound what it would cripple. Also, a basic power sword that is also two-handed is ridiculous. Maybe put some more thought into it? It becomes str8 if he uses it two-handed? Asmodai - Make him cause fear. I'm not big on the idea of special formations or alternate FOC's. I think we have an issue of a troop section that is way too light. I'd like a little reorganization, especially if we lose the "unlock" options on our characters. Relics Replace Monster Slayer with Heavenfall Blade - Str6 AP2 Wargear Bikes - these should come with plasma talons to match the command squads. It's a little silly that the command squad has better bikes than the VIP they're escorting. Or at least add the option at increased points. HQ Master - Allow him to ride a bike Librarian - keep the same Chaplain/IC - keep the same ELITES Deathwing Command Squad - reduce points slightly. Allow sergeant to swap weapons again. Ravenwing Command Squad - reduce points slightly. Deathwing Knights - reduce points slightly. Ravenwing Knights - reduce points slightly. Company Veterans - Remain the same but allow vengeance rounds and maybe hellfire rounds to be used. Dreadnought - add dakka version TROOPS Tactical squad - add grav weapons Scout squad - keep the same Deathwing Terminators - slightly reduce points. Ravenwing Attack Squadron - add grav weapons FAST ATTACK Assault Squad - leave the same Nephalim - Reduce points substantially, add option to replace missiles with hurricane bolters, change missile to: Range 72" Str7 AP3 Single Use, Heat Seeking Dark Talon - Reduce point substantially, add option to replace hurricane bolters with missiles (as above) Dark Shroud - Increase armor to 12/11/10 Land Speeder support squadron - leave the same HEAVY SUPPORT Devastators - leave the same predator - leave the same whirlwind - leave the same vengeance - decrease points moderately, increase armor to 12/11/10, change weapon to have the following profiles: Range 36" Str7 AP2 heavy 4, sky fire, interceptor, twin-linked, gets hot Range 24" Str7 AP2, large blast, gets hot Land Raiders - leave the same Vindicators - leave the same Possible new units: Attack Bike Squadrons as heavy support Terminators with grav cannons Attack Bikes with heavy flamers New HQ units that function similar to chaplains but give different buffs to any friendly squad they join. Overall, if GW wants to make more money on DA, they need to increase our synergy with other chapters and IG. Currently there is little reason for any other imperial force to ally DA to their normal army. I think spreading out the units over more FOC sections would give each *wing it's own unique theme. Black Knights would be the "elite" of the ravenwing, as would deathwing knights to the deathwing. It makes more sense than an entirely different FOC, since they rarely work entirely independently but would still enable them to do so without massively penalizing the army. Honestly, I'm planning on just using mostly forgeworld vehicles as I finish their designs and get the printed/built. I would have much more desire to purchase a larger variety of units if DA retained synergy like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukero Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I just have to ask this one question, wouldn't it be a huge slap in the face on GW's part to remove RW/DW from the FOC? Way too many people have invested into these because of the uniqueness ( not having tacticals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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