Karack Blackstone Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hello Fellow Children of Russ. What do each of you think about the options provided for all of our forces? While reading the thread on WG TDA, I was noticing that possibly, an allied CoF WG TDA force in two Stormwolves would really mitigate their lack of mobility, as well as provide a turn one game changer if played correctly. Using this as an example, if one has to rethink one's options now, and improve as a Wolf Lord, what recommendations would you make? I think my Dread's on the attack might benefit from DP's, especially my BS & FGA Ven Dread; again, where are our options to increase the lethality of our forces? Another is GH's in Rhinos: I have a full ten strong pack, the problem is it costs a massive 273 points each; not ideal, however it gives me all rounders for each unit. My Heavy Support choices seem to be kinda stuck these days: any LF's at all seem to be dead on arrival, whereas a Predator with TLLC and LC Sponsons matched up with one or two Vindicators seems pretty sturdy. What changes do you see as things to consider in your force? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 This question has been breaking my head for the past months and the reason I needed a long break and the reason why conversions will be rather slow and I will mainly post epic fluff. I have no bloody clue... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 This question has been breaking my head for the past months and the reason I needed a long break and the reason why conversions will be rather slow and I will mainly post epic fluff. I have no bloody clue... Between our two books and the massive force generation options of what we can put on the table, I think in time we can as a collective group help you with that in this thread. That said, please voice / type your troubles, and let us see what we can come up with here that assists you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I voiced my troubles in another thread and I have no intention to hijack this one. In short, I can not find interesting units with interesting effects. Mostly boring same-y stuff. I'll be mostly following the thread to see other people's ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I voiced my troubles in another thread and I have no intention to hijack this one. In short, I can not find interesting units with interesting effects. Mostly boring same-y stuff. I'll be mostly following the thread to see other people's ideas. The entire idea of this thread is to as a whole, all of us, try and see what we can do to maximize what we choose to take if one wants to become more competitive. Such as, if WG TDA in the Stormwolves formation from CoF is a preferred way of getting them around, as our Codex and Supplement only have the new flyers, and our forces may need a rethink from the ground up. That rethink is the focus of this thread; that said, if you do not want to repeat yourself here, that's entirely your choice; I not only respect it, I support it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 So far as I have been able to figure stormwolves are not a solution to mobility. They are a great unit and they can get around the board, but in most configuring the best you can do is get out on turn 3. I find that by turn 3 most of the targets I wanted to trow termis at have been handled by other units. For me, shooty terminators go in pods, assault terminators I pay the land raider tax for, mostly because land raiders are distracting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 In short, I can not find interesting units with interesting effects. Mostly boring same-y stuff. I second this, personally I find the books quite unimaginative but it's going to be as its focused on a single chapter that wages war in a particular way. The wolves are bad asses who want to get up close with special weapons, blast stuff to bits and then beat face. Having the option in the dex to write a list that's all about sitting back and blasting things with heavy weapons would just make us vanilla marines in grey armour. I don't think there is anything left in the two books that hasn't been discovered and is widely known. The things that work well are drop pods, TWC and to a lesser extent mechanised lists. It's not very exciting but thats what the space wolves do well. Just my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 So far as I have been able to figure stormwolves are not a solution to mobility. They are a great unit and they can get around the board, but in most configuring the best you can do is get out on turn 3. I find that by turn 3 most of the targets I wanted to trow termis at have been handled by other units. For me, shooty terminators go in pods, assault terminators I pay the land raider tax for, mostly because land raiders are distracting. In short, I can not find interesting units with interesting effects. Mostly boring same-y stuff. I second this, personally I find the books quite unimaginative but it's going to be as its focused on a single chapter that wages war in a particular way. The wolves are bad asses who want to get up close with special weapons, blast stuff to bits and then beat face. Having the option in the dex to write a list that's all about sitting back and blasting things with heavy weapons would just make us vanilla marines in grey armour. I don't think there is anything left in the two books that hasn't been discovered and is widely known. The things that work well are drop pods, TWC and to a lesser extent mechanised lists. It's not very exciting but thats what the space wolves do well. Just my opinion. Hm; I find all thoughts useful and valid, the problem is sorting out the when. I guess to clarify, my thoughts were that fliers are a reasonable addition, with the caveat that they do require some setup work to get to where they need to be in time, usually turn three. As far as I can tell, WG TDA need either pods, limiting pack size, or LR Hulls, severely taxing the points levels of the game to get them into a list. TWC are a somewhat gimmicky unit, in that all they do is beat face; there's no real tactical variation in that fact, and that seems somewhat bland. GH's are pretty clearly in need of a ride, and with the change to our packs with 7th Ed., we now can fit a full pack with the WGPL in a pod with any two specials. I'm guessing the problem is that Space Wolves seem to be built as an army to favor the Stormwolves as an assault transport. The issue is, unless the game is well over 2000 points, I think it's what, 560 points for a WP bare and a 15 strong pack of BC's with WGPL and a Stormwolf. There's so many options that are all the same as before, just some new ones and a pretty interesting few threads of things that were eliminated. I guess this thread needed more thought before posting: why is the Stormwolf such a great seeming vehicle on paper, and so hard to use in a game? The earliest one can get into payload dropoff position reliably most of the time is turn 3, half a standard game, and that assumes it's not a turn 5 to finish situation... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Close and personal is definitely a theme here. Ulrik has a bubble that favours combi-weapons and melee, GH banner favours melee, TDA have combis and melee and TWC are melee. Due to this alone, SW armies like drop pod ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 If you just want a very mobile list try a jump pack list. Take the CoF organisation chart, give your HQ and 2 PA WG units jump packs and that's your core list sorted. Then add sky claws for more cheaper boots on the ground and stormgrrrs as air support and anti tank. It's not fluffy but it's mobile as hell and will do a lot of damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The storm wolf is a bit late to the fight, and 235 for a chasis is pretty expensive. I think the tank hunting value of the fliers was vastly overrated when they were first released, especially by me. Their required movement and weapon placement makes it hard to consistently deliver its pay load with the melta variant I have a game against some demons soon and I'm thinking of a flier wing led by ulric in the gunboat variant, i will keep the HB and storm strike and run another similarly loaded in a formation (deployment) that Shields ulrik from heavy weapons with the other flier chassis. I think the range of the bolters and stormstrike makes deployment easier, and the PE will help keep things efficient. I will combine this with some thunderwolves and vindi to press the lines, and use my dred/long fangs bunker as a firing base. Ulrik's flier can support the combat group, or firebase depending on the situation I agree that the special rule synergies seem cooler in other books, because the wolves present straight forward economical options instead of demon tables and old codex silliness. The jump packs seems like a cool options. Would be a fun way to get a special character into combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I agree on the jump pack idea but after playing a game against a DA opponent & trying WG Bikers, I gotta say I was impressed with them. I'm going to play a few more games with them & see how they do. As for the Storm Grrs, gotta agree with most people here, only in bigger pts games. Wolves do Mech lists very well. I have a list I want to play consisting of 5 packs of GH's in Razorbacks(mostly Assault cannon & lascannon twin linked plasma gun variety), a Contemptor & Bjorn as well 3 Landspeeders. And if you have the armour units, you could play CoF with WG TDA minimum packs in dedicated LR's supported by Sicarian's &/or Vindis. FW's Armoured Co list Space Wolf style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm not sure about bikes, I duno what it is, I think it might be the models mostly, they really need updating. Same as out special characters, some of them are the same models from when I started playing in 3rd ed. come to think of it that might even be why I keep using Krom, he is the first new special character we have had for years and he's not even that good!haha. I think PA WG with jump packs or bikes might be a tactical alternative to TWC (who imo are a one trick pony and quite boring). Having the same fast pace of the TWC and access to ranged weapons is quite appealing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loganwolf Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Drop pod or thunder wolf spam are the only ways to go to be competative. Real trick is to allie in space marines to add in aspects of their list to allow for abuse of fast attack drop pod. Storm wing flyer formation is also v good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morik Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I want to find a way to make bloodclaws in drop pods work Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Unfortunately, trying to beat Ravenwing at being shooty bikes is like trying to beat the Pillarmen at being fabulous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I don't think we can out bike the ravenwing, but I do think we can out TDA the Deathwing though. I do miss the Loganwing but we can make something similar just without the Logan bit. I suppose you could add Logan if you wanted, but he isn't what he used to be. And he costs the same as 5 kited up TDA WG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 WG > DW due to pods and combi-weps Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3913864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I run a hard hitting air assault drop pod and flyer list. I run the stormwing formation in addition to voidclaws and thunderstrikes. I like to back this up with long fangs, and I'm thinking jump troops too. It's not a traditionally fluffy space wolves list, but it is strategically and tactically sound, and has been used to great effect in modern warfare. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3914152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Drop pods, TWC, Ground Transports, and the non MM variant of the Stormwolf might work. Fliers seem to be too many points for what they do, especially when attempting to get one to do more than one role; that, and their tax for just bringing one seems to always impact their battlefield effectiveness, that's for sure. Hm, how to proceed... What concerns me is that in order to make a competitive list, one almost has to avoid the bread and butter units, that, or I need to improve as a General on the table. I think I should strive to improve; that is vastly easier, and, won't cost as much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3914295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Grimdark Prince Adam+ Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Due to lack of time I haven't played a game with Space Wolves yet (not even in WH40k yet, I'm a veteran WFB player). I am currently initialising a force based on CoF, with my first finished unit being Termies (because I love the figures), and my second Elite unit being WG with jumppacks with power weapons and boltpistols (same reason). And recently it got me thinking - a unit of WG Jumppacks with plasma pistols all (maybe some without PW as excessive wounds, maybe 1-2 with stormshields?) and a Wolf Priest. Reroll 1s to hit (so almost no gets hot), rerolls 1's to wound (basically every hit wounds), no armour saves means in a turn they get to shoot an elite enemy unit may just vanish (if no or small inv saves). Anyone ever thought about this or tried it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3914296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Due to lack of time I haven't played a game with Space Wolves yet (not even in WH40k yet, I'm a veteran WFB player). I am currently initialising a force based on CoF, with my first finished unit being Termies (because I love the figures), and my second Elite unit being WG with jumppacks with power weapons and boltpistols (same reason). And recently it got me thinking - a unit of WG Jumppacks with plasma pistols all (maybe some without PW as excessive wounds, maybe 1-2 with stormshields?) and a Wolf Priest. Reroll 1s to hit (so almost no gets hot), rerolls 1's to wound (basically every hit wounds), no armour saves means in a turn they get to shoot an elite enemy unit may just vanish (if no or small inv saves). Anyone ever thought about this or tried it? No, sounds like I now know what to do with that WGPA force for the Stormstrike unit! Sounds like so much fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3914300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The Thunderstrike is something I keep looking at, it's a huge chunk of points though. I was looking at a combi plasma spam alpha strike version, drop in and ruin someone's day with 30 plasma shots re rolling misses. That's enough to kill most things that ain't super-heavy with minimised gets hot rolls. I am just waiting for a conformation from GW to see if they can make use of the drop pod assault rule because of vague wording of the rules about the when it comes in. If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3914968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgr_maddog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Due to lack of time I haven't played a game with Space Wolves yet (not even in WH40k yet, I'm a veteran WFB player). I am currently initialising a force based on CoF, with my first finished unit being Termies (because I love the figures), and my second Elite unit being WG with jumppacks with power weapons and boltpistols (same reason). And recently it got me thinking - a unit of WG Jumppacks with plasma pistols all (maybe some without PW as excessive wounds, maybe 1-2 with stormshields?) and a Wolf Priest. Reroll 1s to hit (so almost no gets hot), rerolls 1's to wound (basically every hit wounds), no armour saves means in a turn they get to shoot an elite enemy unit may just vanish (if no or small inv saves). Anyone ever thought about this or tried it? It's been tried. You will kill a unit, then take lots of fire. Big point investment, but fun. If you do it, be sure to exchange your CCW for the plasma pistol to get more bolt pistol shots with gunslinger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3915175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgr_maddog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? I like our flyers. Lots of others ignore enemy flyers or have either forge world or allied solutions. Flakk missiles are generally considered overpriced (some like 1 in a squad for split fire). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/#findComment-3915186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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