Frater Cornelius Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? I like our flyers. Lots of others ignore enemy flyers or have either forge world or allied solutions. Flakk missiles are generally considered overpriced (some like 1 in a squad for split fire). Yeah, most people either ignore them or have count units that can also serve as anti-air. We are talking at twin-linked weapons like Sicarans have or other high-frequency stuff like Grav Cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz of the North Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The Thunderstrike is something I keep looking at, it's a huge chunk of points though. I was looking at a combi plasma spam alpha strike version, drop in and ruin someone's day with 30 plasma shots re rolling misses. That's enough to kill most things that ain't super-heavy with minimised gets hot rolls. I am just waiting for a conformation from GW to see if they can make use of the drop pod assault rule because of vague wording of the rules about the when it comes in. If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? Thunderstrike is a lot of points investment, but if combined with TWC spam can be a great combo, by dropping all that combi-goodness first turn you can take a lot of stress off of the TWC as they move up the field. Though to mitigate the issue with drop pod assault, you could put 5 TDAWG in a pod and have 3 pods, so everything comes in first turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I was considering a vengeance weapons battery with a quad Icarus lascannon for some anti air. At 70pts they are quite pricey but it's the cheapest thing I can think of. apart from flakk missiles I suppose, but as you say they are over priced. With the Thunderstrike I was thinking combi plasma because you get the turn of rapid fire plasma guns to take out a key unit or two, then as you say they will take a lot of fire, so giving them plasma pistols will make them more expensive and have less shots the turn you arrive. After that any that are still alive will just charge into combat anyway to keep from getting shot at. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The Thunderstrike is something I keep looking at, it's a huge chunk of points though. I was looking at a combi plasma spam alpha strike version, drop in and ruin someone's day with 30 plasma shots re rolling misses. That's enough to kill most things that ain't super-heavy with minimised gets hot rolls. I am just waiting for a conformation from GW to see if they can make use of the drop pod assault rule because of vague wording of the rules about the when it comes in. If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? Thunderstrike is a lot of points investment, but if combined with TWC spam can be a great combo, by dropping all that combi-goodness first turn you can take a lot of stress off of the TWC as they move up the field. Though to mitigate the issue with drop pod assault, you could put 5 TDAWG in a pod and have 3 pods, so everything comes in first turn. Yea, Thunderstrike is expensive, it was just something I was thinkng of. I have some thermies to build and they are going to be a combi bomb to use as an alpha strike. I am going to magnetise the weapons so I can change wether it's a combi melta or plasma. I don't run TWC, I'm a GHs in rhinos kinda guy. But it would defo take the pressure off them as they move up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWolfLord Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I personally have really struggled trying to built new lists since the codex drop. I pride myself on being able to find tricky combination and synergies but it's difficult to look past TWC or pods in a competitive list. Not wanting to derail the thread but there's 2 main reasons for this, battle brothers and the power differences between the recent codices and old ones such as Eldar and Tau. To compete we need to bring the nastiest and most efficient units which are TWC and pods. I personally don't want to run a pod list as its too similar to what a lot of vanilla marine lists will be so I'm stuck with TWC. In a competition list there's no room for a flyer though, Sicarans are the way to go with as they are cost effective and also counters jinking bikes and serpent spam to a degree. I'm also going to do some testing of a rune priest with a helm of Durfast in a mid range unit of grey hunters in a razor back. Living lightning ignoring cover (jinks) with reroll to hit could be promising, I'd also hope for Murderous Hurricane and Fury of the Wolf Spirits as they could surprise opponents if ignoring cover. 5 Skyclaws having access to 2 specials must be usable, the BS3 is a problem but the 12" move plus the chance for 2 melta, combi melta and Krak in a turn for 115 points must have a use. Maybe running 3-4 squads together and trying to get Ulrik close by is doable. Ulrik is the key to several ideas and would mesh well with a long fang and pred/vindicator gun line style, quality shooting rather than quantity. Auto cannon dreads would be useful as well I think the best SW only force would be a CAD with a few msu and a detachment of great wolf for heavy hitters. My fave combination is wolf guard battle leader from CAD on TW with Armour of Russ and Wolf Lord from Great Wolf detachment on TW with Krakenbone sword in a squad of TWC. Even if you meet another beefy close combat squad with Killy HQ you can drop him to initiative 1 in a challenge while the rest of the squad wipe the unit causing over spill and kill HQ before he can attack back. In non competitive games there's a load more fun and interesting lists Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loganwolf Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Drop pod assault based around thunder strike melta terminators and plasma power armour with flamer based grey hunters with allied centurions and storm talons is very effective. Throw in murderous fanacus from distraction..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And on top of all his I'm trying to write the Knight Titan I just bought into a list, mainly cuz it's awesome!haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz of the North Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The Thunderstrike is something I keep looking at, it's a huge chunk of points though. I was looking at a combi plasma spam alpha strike version, drop in and ruin someone's day with 30 plasma shots re rolling misses. That's enough to kill most things that ain't super-heavy with minimised gets hot rolls. I am just waiting for a conformation from GW to see if they can make use of the drop pod assault rule because of vague wording of the rules about the when it comes in. If people ain't liking our fliers, what is being used for anit-air? Thunderstrike is a lot of points investment, but if combined with TWC spam can be a great combo, by dropping all that combi-goodness first turn you can take a lot of stress off of the TWC as they move up the field. Though to mitigate the issue with drop pod assault, you could put 5 TDAWG in a pod and have 3 pods, so everything comes in first turn. Yea, Thunderstrike is expensive, it was just something I was thinkng of. I have some thermies to build and they are going to be a combi bomb to use as an alpha strike. I am going to magnetise the weapons so I can change wether it's a combi melta or plasma. I don't run TWC, I'm a GHs in rhinos kinda guy. But it would defo take the pressure off them as they move up. They could take off a lot of pressure off Rhinos, especially if you are able to kill the biggest threats to the Rhinos such as heavy choices. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Has anyone considered running a Wolf Standard? If melee is supposed to be out schtick, why not make it an even better one? 7A per TWC, 8 for a Lord is something very respectable. Deliver them by pod or have a Stormwolf with 5 dudes and a bubble around it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Drop pod assault based around thunder strike melta terminators and plasma power armour with flamer based grey hunters with allied centurions and storm talons is very effective. Throw in murderous fanacus from distraction..... That Murderous fanacus from distraction sounds awesome, I want that... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Murderous fanacus?? Is that MurderFang? Sounds like a brutal list though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3915966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Ive been playing round with a sitback an shoot element that uses long fangs - but not one geared towards anti armour, as i think LC and ML now struggle with armour due to lack of AP - so long gone are the days of missle spam long fangs. I leave my armour hunting to my thunderwolves or WG, so this is a setup if been playing around with, that i havent seen many other people use: Ulric Long fangs - HB x5, Razorback (either just HB or LC/TLPG if i have the points) Long fangs - PC x5, Razorback (either just HB or LC/TLPG if i have the points) Deimos Predator Executioner with ignores cover and heavy bolters. Now, the obvious drawback is that its a 36" range heavy weapons blob but with the first turn, you can get them up field slightly and disembark (often night fighting first turns stops them being able to shoot much anyway). The heavy is geared up for anti troop, not anti armour...why? Well cos as stated above, i think long fangs now suffer against armour, and because ulrics preferred enemy bubble lets youreroll wounds, not armour penetration (so is great against troops), and lets you re-roll those pesky gets hot rolls on the plasma cannons. Its possible to set that up so ulric stays in one of the razorbacks, and his bubble when measured from the hull is 6" away from every unit - put the long fangs in front, and then have a line of 3 tanks, with ulric sat in the back/middle razorback. Its not something ive seen a lot of people use, but ive used it to great effect against my mates space marine lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I was thinking about HB LF's but I had not taken it that far Danpesci. That's a really good set up on first glance. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I think Las Fangs are something that make it into each one of my lists these days. Their range and strength are good and with the amount of MC and Skimmers i see they are very effective. If they are getting killed, you need something to punish that choice, and for me that is Thunderwolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I've been experimenting with a pack with two lascannons, two missile launchers and either a plasma cannon or heavy bolter, but may switch to another lascannon or missile launcher.A pack I've been thinking of trying out is two plasma cannons with three heavy bolters, thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 If you are really bent on mixing weapons, you might want to try 1PC + 4HB to make better use of split fire. However, having said that, I can see some merit in mixing weapons. In 7ed, different weapon types are resolved separately. This means you can choose to resolve HB first to kill chaff in a unit and do PC to kill the meat (something like a character hiding in a weaker unit). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I have been thinking about using las plas squads of LF, in pairs. 2 squads of 2 PC and 2 LC, split fire, shoot all the las at armour and all the plas at infantry. one squad gets killed I loose my volume, but not my versatility. It also lets me engage 4 targets if I'm up against light vehicles and heavy infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3916722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ummmm, don't have the rule book with me at the moment, but I thought LF's had the split fire rule out of the main book now. Only ONE weapon can shoot at a different target? Have I been missing something all this time???????? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ummmm, don't have the rule book with me at the moment, but I thought LF's had the split fire rule out of the main book now. Only ONE weapon can shoot at a different target? Have I been missing something all this time???????? You are current. They do not have Fire Control anymore, just the regular split-fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917251 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ummmm, don't have the rule book with me at the moment, but I thought LF's had the split fire rule out of the main book now. Only ONE weapon can shoot at a different target? Have I been missing something all this time???????? .... Well, thats one of my units in the game hurt badly, I see why everyone is down about them now :/ Has it been faq'd for Grey hunters to be able to swap their ccwp if you give them one for a power weapon? having them not able to do that kind of makes it a pointless upgrade on that guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think your right Rift, it is just the rule out of the BRB now. If you are really bent on mixing weapons, you might want to try 1PC + 4HB to make better use of split fire. However, having said that, I can see some merit in mixing weapons. In 7ed, different weapon types are resolved separately. This means you can choose to resolve HB first to kill chaff in a unit and do PC to kill the meat (something like a character hiding in a weaker unit). I really like this idea Imme, i can see it being useful against certain armies like Orks where the Nob might have a higher armour save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoyo ninja Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Blood claws with a sneaky powerfist are pretty good on the charge. 3A , 4 if you keep him with a pistol. Its more useful than giving a fist to GHs. Sorry, wrong thread! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Blood claws with a sneaky powerfist are pretty good on the charge. 3A , 4 if you keep him with a pistol. Its more useful than giving a fist to GHs. Sorry, wrong thread! Fists do not get bonus attacks from having a pistol. They are Specialist Weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well that sucks, I thought it was just that the squad could split fire between only 2 targets. And how you allocate is up to you. That's pointless, unless you camp them behind an aegis line with a quad gun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Another thing I have been thinking about lately was force-multipliers. I want to revisit Harald, Canis, Wulfenstone and Ulric or even just a regular Wolf Priest and see if I can build something functional out of those. Only problem is that my opinion about pure melee units has been severely hampered lately, because they can not be a threat from T1. Still, I believe there is something to be gained through unit interaction as opposed to simply throwing everything at the opponent and hope it arrives there. I just need to be careful and not overly rely on gimmicks, lest they be stopped by some savvy players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301657-my-fellow-vlka-let-us-confer-on-a-rethink-of-our-forces/page/2/#findComment-3917416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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