Dealing with Tau

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

How does the 7th ed wolf codex fair against the Tau? From looking at the threads everyone nowadays seems to favour drop pods and Thunder wolf cavalry, yet I'm not sure how good they would be against the Tau. Any advice though? It's the army I struggle the most with and the one that made me shelve my Thousand sons and killed 40k at a gaming club I was at, so I'm hoping my wolves now dusted off will claim the Weregeld owed by the Xenos :P

[tjdudey]

I gotta agree with you, Tau are one of the hardest armies I find to deal with. Drop pods do work well, getting a lot of firepower in range right at the beginning, try to force some leadership tests to thin the herd. I still havent found an efficient way for dealing with riptides early on in the game, but TWC perhaps with a TWM Lord can deal with him fairly easily.

 

Its all the jetpack running away and hiding in cover that makes them hard to deal with in my opinion. against a smart Tau player its hard to get GH etc into combat because they just keep backing away and shooting more at you.

[Astoran]

I hate Tau, I really do. Last weekend I dropped down 2 pods with GH and after interceptor shots had been made there were only 3!!! GH still alive. This game did not make it to round 3. 1 Riptide and a Forge World Riptide just tore my army to pieces like it was nothing. I managed to get 1 of 5 TWC in to CC with 1 unit Stealth Suits and the lord broke off and took down another. My WG-Terminators with combi plasma killed one Riptide but by then it was already over.

I hate Tau...

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

^^^Thats why I think a lot of the things that normally work against soft armies like drop pods won't work because unlike any other codex Tau cna get inteceptor and skyfire on most of their units, and the jump pack movement allows them to doubel tap plasma rifles or use fusion blasters to destroy tanks and then run away...
I'm really hoping Thunderwolf cavalry arn't the only way, part of the reason I shelved the Tsons was due to the need of things like the hell turkey or mark of nurgle to deal with tau.
How would a mass mech list work? Yes they are likely to destroy most of the transports before I can get close, but even one turn's worth of protection and 12" movement will help, and if there is enough of them it should help. 
Possibly a redeemer? I imagine the flamestorm cannons would hurt tau a fair bit if I use power of the machine spirit to fire one after moving 12"

[Astoran]

Rhinos and Razorbacks dont work against Tau. Broadsides with missiles cracks them open and then a Ionhead vapourizes the guys inside. Landraiders work wonders as long as you deal with Hammerheads and Infiltrating and/or deep striking meltas. I usually try to make the Tau tanks jink and to make them less effective. Killing them with distruption pods equiped seems almost impossible unless you can get in cc with em.

A Whirlwind to kill Pathfinders have proven to be a good tactic. But then there is the Commander dude with Marker Drones that I have yet to learn to deal with.

I hate Tau!

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

How about spamming land speeders with either heavy bolters or mulite meltas and heavy flamers? Or Typhoon speeders?.
The Idea with the rhinos/Razorbacks were to try and saturate the field with them so between them and cover my guys could close, Has anyone had anyluck with Skyclaws?

[Frater Cornelius]

I played Tau for a while, so I can offer the some insight. What do Tau dislike the most? Contrary to popular believe, drop pods. Yes, they can fire Interceptor. But when you deliver 5 TDA with 3-4 SS and combi-plasmas on his doorstep, he will not like it. All the Intercept might cost him his shooting phase later, meaning that the TWC will do unmolested. Drop Pod Centurions are deadly against them when used right. I prefer TDA though.

Next thing: Scout moves. We are specifically looking at WS and RW allies. Their bikes can not be intercepted and they carry good amount of Grav and Plasma respectively.

Then there is 48" weaponry. The most popular weapons Tau use have a max range of 36". Put a few Long Fang LasCannons at the back and chip away at them.

 

That's pretty much it. I like to kill them with TDA pods and TWC or by using a bike army (meaning Ravenwing, I do not play White Scars).

[Dantay VI]

Cerastus Knight Acheron!!

 

Barbecue the little fishies with the apocalypse flamestorm template, brilliant if you can get down the flank and light up the entire gun-line, then smash the riptides face in with the D-strength eaper chainfist!!

 

Either that or target the gun line, go for every second unit or so to open up the gaps and prevent supportive snap fire... Oh and make the pesky pathfinders your pretty much top priority.

[CatSmasher]

I have found the best success drop podding psykers with tempestus and telekinesis. I shield them with blood claws, or termies with SS to ensure they get two turns. Helm of Durfast works well here, and most of the powers will be able to find a home, even reducing the BS by one hurts tau. I like to put DWind on the pods because even if you are caught out against a good EWO, you'll still have something to pound the line.

 

I often rely on force axe on the priest for the riptide but often can just tie him up or force him to jump into my assault contingency.

 

Wolf claws are great for tau because the bust most suits builds and can help a small group be efficient against other enemies.

 

For strategy I like to have small efficient assault units, either WG or Thunderwolves. You don't want to overkill in assault and expose yourself to more shooting, you don't need much to beat tau in combat, but it can be tricky to get there. 

 

I agree with Immy that the 48 inch range is a real threat to tau, las cannons are a great matchup for most Tau units, and ML provide a decent alternative

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Maybe droppoding Grey hunter packs instead of Terminators? I love mine but as they are the old metals getting the combi weapons on them will be a pain :P I have been thinking of possibly getting Thunderwolf cavalry, but I don't like the fact they seem to have become the be all and end all of the wolves.
Initially I'd like to try it without allies, but do have eldar and Salamanders to ally in if I have to :p
Tactically speaking, I'm thinking trying to hide behind cover, maybe concentrate all my initially deplyed stuff on one flank and just drive up?
On long fangs I was thinking they wouldn't be that great against tau due to trying to outshoot the shooting race, but would a pack of 3 lascannons and 2 missile launchers be any good?

[Frater Cornelius]

Maybe droppoding Grey hunter packs instead of Terminators? I love mine but as they are the old metals getting the combi weapons on them will be a pain I have been thinking of possibly getting Thunderwolf cavalry, but I don't like the fact they seem to have become the be all and end all of the wolves.

Initially I'd like to try it without allies, but do have eldar and Salamanders to ally in if I have to

Tactically speaking, I'm thinking trying to hide behind cover, maybe concentrate all my initially deplyed stuff on one flank and just drive up?

On long fangs I was thinking they wouldn't be that great against tau due to trying to outshoot the shooting race, but would a pack of 3 lascannons and 2 missile launchers be any good?

TWC will be shot of the board in no time. Their weakness, massed S7 fire, is something that Tau bring in abudance.

Never mix weapons on Fangs. 4-5 LC out of range of their missiles.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I've always mixed weapons to take advantage of their split fire rule and to ensure one pack's demise does not strip me of my long range firepower.
Though I admit I'm not sure wherever or not long fangs would be decent against tau or wherever to just use the points into grey hutners in drop pods/storm wolves,skyclaws ect.
I'm guessing Dreadnoughts are bad against them as well :P

[Frater Cornelius]

Tau will delete all non-AV14 vehicles T1-T2. AV14 requires a Fusion Gun to get close, which is a bit more tricky.

[Donkalleone]

Try always to get rid of the Markerlight units. The Riptide can be blocked by cheap units meaning trying to get a full pack of fenrisan in cc with him he hits on 5+ and has only 3 attacks. meaning the 10 fenrisan fpr 80 points can at least stale him for 2+ rounds while you can concentrate on the rest.

 

Bunkers are AV14 and a really save place for your LF

[CatSmasher]

The Tau have lots to shoot at naked LF, consider some TDA or a bunker.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

An Aegis defence line won't help will it?
The Fenrisian wolves is an interesting idea, but I'm imagining they would get shot up pretty easily by even light fire from any Tau unit.
On long fangs: How can they take TDA? I could take a bunker, but I don't really like the model, or the whole idea of having to buy extra stuff just because they decided to give tau every special rule under the sun.

[CatSmasher]

Defense line is okay as long as you stay out of markerlight range. Also, when he uses them to remove cover, he's not using them to boost BS. 

 

Long fangs can take a pack leader, or be joined by an IC with TDA

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I agree, kill the markerlights. At the same time, that doesn't work against my markerlight deficiency, if he runs a highly mobile battlesuit list with twinlinked everything, it'll be a little harder to kill. Get the fight in close, if your opponent is smart he won't put interceptor on crisis suits unless he loads them down with weapons (takes all 3 equipment choices as weapons, which would be dumb). 

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Both Tau Players I know use crisis suits, one using the Farsight enclaves, the other using a lot of crisis suits and being a tourny player.
How would a contempor and other dreads do? They arn't armour 14 but they won't be as easy to pop as rhinos ect and could deliver some covering fire before tearing the Tau asunder in close combat.
Could allied Salamanders work with their mastercrafter flamers? I'm thinking say either a min size tactical squad or scouts with sniper rifles hiding in cover(completely out of site in the case of the former) with a whirlwind and maybe a librarian to join a grey hunter pack?

[Ostrowulf]

I play against two Tau players.  One puts his faith in riptides, the other one is more mech oriented.  I am just building my SW army now, so have not been able to try them, but my experience fighting Tau as Guard has been reasonably successful.  So, I will start with my IG (or I guess AM now) method, and work logically from there.  I find hellhounds are a key component.  Sure, they can kill them, but they can kill most things.  However, the flame ignores their cover and ignores their armour.  The S is high enough that it tends to kill a reasonable number of them.  What is left I fire my heavy bolter at (which I tend to roll below average with, but I don't care, as my flamers and meltas tend to roll above average).  This tends to solve the marker light problem.  The rip tide its self is another issue.  I like to have my psycher with his force sword, not because he does anything directly with it (I have literally never used it as a force sword, as every one he seems to get in combat with has 1 wound), what he does is limit the places my opponent is willing to put riptides/broadsides as I will usually have two, and place them in each in a section of riflemen/vets.  This brings me to my AP2 S-lots.  Guard can field that like no body's business.  Vendeta alone has enough fire power to make a riptide think twice.  Couple that with a few tanks, like the demolisher, and the fact that every guard section (sorry, I tend to say section instead of squad) can take a heavy weapon, which is not advisable, but it does mean that you have a lot of options for where to put them.  Another fun thing to do (expensive, and depending on your list may not be worth it) is the punisher with Pask.  It is only 24", which I am not a fan of, and it is only S5 AP-.  I am aware that this does not sound like a big seller, however it is 20 shots, which with Pask are BS 4 and rending.  Toss a psycher in behind with prescience, and you are having a party.  It also has a Hvy bolter, as well as space for two more, and if you want to go shot crazy a pintle.  Excessive, but if you are playing against an army that has a good armour save, I say make them roll it lots.

 

How does this help SW?  Well, one answer is to take guard as an ally.  You want fluff, sure, the Space Wolves actually don't go around :cussing over the IG, so they are fluff wise more than happy to work together.  There are a hell of a lot more Guard than SW, so a logical way of fighting would be to have the SW hanging out in reserve while the IG go out and make contact with the enemy.  Whenever they make contact, they engage, and dig in, allowing the SW to come in and crush everyone.  With Fluff covered, what would you want? 1 HQ, okay, so depending on your style, and what you may already have, either a tank commander and his squad (for those who don't play guard, the tank commander must be in a Leman Russ variant, and has to have 1-2 other Leman Russ variants in his squad), which gives you 2-3 armour 14s right there, and the tank commander has BS4.  The Other logical option is a CCS, yes, squishy, but BS 4 to all five members, can give orders to your other guards men (EG bring it down which is monster hunter/tank hunter or or fire on my target and ignore cover), and can have a heavy weapon, and two (or 4 if you don't take the heavy weapon) special weapons.  Then you need a troop choice, for this plan I would say that vets are junk, as they are not bringing the required weapons to bear.  However a Pl Cmdr does.  He is also BS 4, but his squad is not, though they can still take the heavy weapon and special weapons.  This then gives you 2-5 sections which can each have a heavy weapon and a special weapon, 0-5 hvy weapon squads (which is 3 hvy wpns a piece), 0-3 special wpns squads (3 special wpns a piece) and if you like to pain way too many models 0-1 conscripts. The CCS, PCS, and regualr sections can also all take dedicated chimeras, which I find EXTREMELY useful, but not required for this list.  You can then take some fast attack drop pods, drop your el cheapo special weapon squads in them, and pop them behind as a cheap suicide squad option (60pts not counting the drop pod gets you the squad and 3 meltas).  Depending on what you can deal with easiest you can also take a vendetta with the three lascannons, or a hell hound for your fast attack.  Guard also get an adviser that can change the rolls for both yours and the opponents reserves, and can get homing beacons on vehicles to help any deep strikers.

 

Don't have/want IG, okay, plan B.  What I am planning to do, hopefully in the next couple of weeks when my army is good to go, and I may actually have some spare time, is use wolves unleashed, so I can be sure my frostwolf comes on when I need it to, which my initial plan is to carry a rather expensive load of terminators (yes, this cost flying around does worry me, but I am a big fan of "God hates a coward" as my motto) having three with SS/TH, 1 with twin WC, and 1 with WC/CF.  I have the meltas on the flyer as well.  I figure this should be able to deal with most things in assaults into, the flyer can also mess up a lot of things, and if I throw in some good ol' force axe wielding rune priest(s) in to it, then I have something that will at least give a riptide pause for consideration on tactics.  I am just starting with this plan, so I will see how it goes, the other plan is to do the same with blood claws, but I think the chances of the WG killing if the priest does not are a lot higher this way.  Any other riptides will be shot at with lascannons (my army is just starting so no TWC yet) and if m flyer didn't crash and burn during the drop off, it.  I am planning to have two flyers when I can afford it, and basically double up on this plan.  Yes, that means no promises on the second one until turn 3, but that also means turn 3 when the one is dropping troops, the other is giving air support, or if they do both come in, then there is two flyers at once at ground level, and the chances of both failing all of their jinks is a little more in my favor, especially as they spent the last turn shooting at stuff, and now have a lot of angry SW charging things.  I am working on how to get some effective flames in this, I may have to break down and just take some guard allies to get my hellhound on the board.

[Fang_Guard23]

I've played against Tau on a number of occasions and I've lost to them. The only time I didn't lose was when JoTWW was in its 5th edition power. But with the reworking of the space wolves psychic powers things had to change. It took a lot of losing to figure out the best way to over power the tau. Now my theory is still in the experimental stage, but it does exploit the fatal flaw in the tau rules, INTERCEPTER.

 

Naturally I thought I could drop pod in my grey hunters hoping they could make it into the tau lines before they were shot to death but the guy I play with makes sure that his guys are within line of sight of each other and in cover to protect them from incoming fire.  You want your army to be lightning fast to the point that your opponent won't know what's truly coming. It will require the Champions of Fenris Supplement to do it, I'm also working on something with land raiders but that is for another time.

 

"5 men is a juicy opportunity, 1 man's a waist of ammo"

 

1st turn you want to have on your field thunderwolf cav, long fangs inside of a bunker with a void shield(Extra Protection), then drop pod in 2 lone wolves so close into near the cover that they will be out of line of site to the tau, since the tau will fire on the drop pods to try and get the first blood point and lone wolves are non-scoring units they will waist their fire power on either the pod to trying to kill the lone wolves. Both Pods must have teleport homers.

 

2nd Turn is where the big boom happens. You will try to deep strike multiple strike squads of wolf guard terminators on to the field, the squads will be composed of 3 models per squad, all of the models will be given a storm shield. From all of the deep striking the tau player will be forced to intercept and fire at multiple squads of 2+/3++ models.  He will try to thin them out but since there were so many that came in he will have to try to thin them out.  The lone wolves will be a good distraction, they will enter combat from cover and bog down the some of the tau to the point in where the wolf guard will be able to join the fight later in the next turn. The cavalry and land raider will push up into the lines to take out monstrous creatures and high value HQ targets.

 

So that is my theory on how to bring down tau, I've also found it helpful to study the tau weapons, units and models. I found that they use a lot of plasma so a lot of tau weapons are not very effective against Land Raiders. Only the melta ones, and If you want to use land raiders and still be able to do some damage you can tank shock from reserve. It a way of charging but not with infantry and its actually a good way to force the players hand and one of his units to fall back.

 

Well that's my two cents lets see what the rest of you have.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Could wolf priest led skyclaws with flamers be any good? I'm planning eventually to get a land raider redeemer for either wolf guard or grey hunters, so that should help.

[CatSmasher]

I think they could work, but you might want a power sword or axe to make sure

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Wellin bigger games I was thinking maybe a power fist on one of the flamers as it would help against riptides, hammerheads, crisis suits ect, but in smaller games would want to keep them cheapish.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Combi-meltas/combi-plas works great against riptides. I played a game with my tau against ultramarines, and lost my riptide turn 1 to a sternguard suicide squad of combi-meltas and grav guns. Now we don't have grav, but we can get tons of melta shots, or plasma shots. Put 10 PAWG/ 5 TDAWG in a pod, and put them next to the riptide, and then hit it with every melta/plasma shot you have, force a ton of those 5++ saves, and he'll fail enough to die. Or use a WG thunderstrike, and put down 2 units with combis and use all of it to kill the riptide. Now, I generally don't take more than 1 riptide below 2k, to avoid the cheese (I don't want to win a casual game overwhelmingly on turn 2, it's not fun for me). Alternatively, put a knight on the table. He'll have to deal with it, or get wrecked by it. Get that knight into CC with the riptide and watch as the D strength chainsword eats it.