A month in, are people happy with the new Codex?

[Morticon]

I am not sure, but something prevents me being at peace with this book.

 

Could be the simple dissonance of change.

[psychodough]

I do not like the new codex.

 

/rant

 

Moving DC and ASM out of troops is so limiting(I don't care if everything can score now you still have to take/buy the new tactical box and scouts are not an option they are horrible). Changes to the Baal make it even more out classed by the scican then it already was, outflank and scout was what made that thing shine. Stormraven losing blood strike missiles was bad now its just a plan Stormraven but in red (so bland! you just have to have 3 right? Have i got a deal for you!) ASM not getting to take a razor back as a dedicated transport was also a kick in the pants it was the only wait to make a crappy transport less crap by knocking 35 points from it what a deal!

 

Want some interesting, fun and unique rules try a formation or detachment, one thats not in the codex of course. Please buy our over price books after already buying to codex of course for rules, and fluff that you may or may not care about. Forge your own narrative create your own chapter just without a chapter master. Speaking of chapter master have we got a deal for you, one is insanely awesome and you'd be a fool for not taking, the other one not as awesome but he's so fluffy! They are both Lords of war but you still have to take an HQ?

 

Sanguinary priest....sigh an HQ? Why? was a FnP bubble so game breaking it just had to be limited to an hq slot and a points increase and what's the deal with making the bolt pistol a point upgrade? Not only do our tactical marines forget their combat knives at home in a combat oriented army but the priest can't be botherd to grab a pistol. If he can add a pistol for a point why can't my marines add a CCW for a point? Why do my Fast vehicles have to buy the upgrade? 

 

Here have some grav weapons but not all of them the big ones are not for you! You know what's also not for you the stormtalon. But hey the death company got a lot cheaper and in most ways are really the only marine unit you should take as they embody what the army is as a whole or used to. Thats why you can take 4 elite choices because 60 DC it where its at and at only $396 its a bargain so please by more DC boxes we put them on bigger bases so they won't match the other stuff you've had for years. Also what the hell Lemartes an elite choice all to his own at how many points? 

 

A dreadnought as an HQ sweet, (dreads are the most badass thing in the game unless you've played the game for more than a turn) who doesn't like giving up first blood and slay the warlord on turn 1 unless you put him in a raven and it may not come until turn 4 and get blown out of the sky by interceptor and then give up warlord after the raven crashes and smashes it underneath it or worse gets immobilized. 

 

And the codex itself sure its nice and the pictures a pretty but why do some units have options in the page and others you have to refer to the wargear section? What was so wrong with the other format that you had to change it? Why are the pictures so large and the print so small is this a codex with rules to play a game or a catalog with rules in it for a game? Oh...

 

We would have been better off with a price adjustment and some new wargear options.

 

/rant off

 

Some good things! Heavy flamers on tacticals super nice. Dante is amazing , Sang guard are cheaper and DC are crazy good even if they did lose a WS. 5 ASM 2 melta and 2 more in pistol forum in a pod is nice i guess. The new spell school is interesting, mephiston its good. Super cheap liberian is really good too. Stuff is overall but not in all cases cheaper.

[vahouth]

I couldn't be happier with this codex as it gives answer to all the big issues I had with the old one.

1) The price drop all around the board.

2) Furious Charge for everyone, not on a roll of 1.

3) Old times FC (+1 strength and initiative) is huge! Even humble tactical marines are a threat now, and it finally gives us an edge when fighting Space Wolves. ;)

4) Dante is at long last the Commander everyone hoped for.

5) Disciplines are awesome.

6) Still every vehicle can be fast except Land Raider.

7) Access to relics.

8) 3 pts for a DC jump pack??!!!

 

As for new units, I really don't care since I already own more than 10,000 pts worth of BAs.

Oh, and I also don't care about ASMs moving to fast. I never fielded more than 2 squads anyway and I never viewed them as objective holders, but as objective contesting material.

[Cor3y]

I do like the codex for all the reasons posted in the pages of this post...

 

But I really cannot imagine how we can use BA competitively.

 

in a meta full of Flying Circuses & screamer-star, IK, SM/Eldar Invisibility shenanigans, TAU intercept & heavy fire, necron flyer spam, mono-grav SM lists and Mix and mashes on the above concepts (without even touching the tier2 but still extremely annoying Tyranids, IG or SWraiders lists), how the heck are we supposed to play?

 

I hope someone can help me figure this out!

 

My point here is that DOA and Dante are really lovely in a friendly environment, in the others, it just doesn't have the punch needed to do heavy damage in the third turn (on the charge) to compensate che damage we get in the first 2 turns of fire, and against a few of the above lists, melee is where they shine more than us.

 

We are lackluster in the Firepower, antiair and antiMC and PSY stuff, and we don't have access to major combos to let our Melee be viable or just even survive vs the main Melee contenders.

 

Is there some Competitive Folks here in the forum that have some insight to share?

[Shaezus]

@Cor3y

 

Re: Casualties from intercept and heavy fire, being able to now take 10 Sanguinary Guard as opposed to just 5 is a good compensation IMO. Add to that the buffs from chapter banner, Sanguinary discipline and guaranteed I and S bonus on charge and this is SO much stronger in melee than before. And for an extra two meltabombs' worth of points you can upgrade an IC's jump pack to Angel's Wing, which poops right in the face of that Tau intercept fire. In a unit of 330 points plus ICs, this is just stupidly cheap.

 

Imperial Knights? How about a 5-man ASM with 4 melta shots for 135 pts?

 

Then there's the Sicaran - ok, it's FW - which goes a long way to helping out vs flyers and IK also, especially with the Schism of Mars legacy of glory.

 

As for invis, yup it's a pain but a good TO will comp it a little. Even if not, you know it's part of your plan to deal with those psykers and an army reliant on invis will be crippled by this, so it's worth focusing on.

 

Just my tuppence :)

[Cor3y]

@shaezeus

1 meltaPOD Will never explode an IK. The shield will land exactly where the pod stands, giving the Ik an invul.

 

The problem with tau is not the intercept. Due to the fact that you cannot charge, they will focus in their turn, and a few riptides can do enormous damage to a high cost unit like that. The fact that they are the onlyones that can intercept, and the fact that they need to intercept only pod units and not JP, make the angel's wing more cute than usefull in such an environment. I still play it to be able to run and split up the units before the inevitable AOE hits, but it's not in any means a counter.

 

FW is not permitted in any comp tournament in my area, so I have to think and live without it :-(

 

To get the psycher in an invis unit, BA can only charge in, and that's pretty late and quite ineffective. Elder will charge when they want, and SM will just submerge everything in grav fire before you charge.

 

Just as info, I posted an army list to try to start a discussion in the proper forum, with a link to the ruleset I must obey to.

[SnorriSnorrison]

@ Snorri - I was also a bit baffled with the mixed language in the books in non-English releases, however, I made a point of only using English 40k related stuff, even if I have wait a while until my store can get some English copies over here. I learned this game in the UK and thus it seems much more natural. Hell, this game is made in the UK to begin with

Yeah mate, just should've gotten the english version. It really cracks me up, and the German version of the codex has the resemblance of a paperwork submitted by a 5th grader trying desperately to sound cool. Which makes everyone else facepalm and lose faith in humanity. Now I know what really irks me about the codex.

As for the codex... there is still something that bothers me, though I can not pin-point it. A nagging feeling.

Is it because I am forced to take Tacs as Troops? Is it because the entire army is JP focused and thus lacks visual diversity? Is it the fact that FA slots are so bloody crowded and thus you are hard-pressed to include the stuff you like? Is it because you can not make extensive use of DoA since you need stuff on the table until T2?

I am not sure, but something prevents me being at peace with this book.

I like being focused on JP, I just wish we had a better army-wide rule to support our jumpers like the RG's rule(which by right should be ours!!!!!).

Also, I believe you wanted to say that the Elites slots are bloody crowded, because that's where mama keeps the peanut butter.

I'm not sure about being forced to take Tacs is necessarily a bad thing. I'd rather have the option of adding ASM, but the Tac squad's shooting is superior to jumpers, and our Tacs are the best of all loyal marines. Yes, that doesn't mean a lot by any means, but I think it means that they can work for us. I'm going to pod them with 3 flamers, two normal ones(combi/regular) and heavy to get the most wounds out of the weapons. Removing bubble wrap or wiping out dug-in infantry(other than marines, lol) just became a lot easier. And, Tacs are harder to remove than a Furioso, which can be killed by one lucky melta shot. Regarding the Furioso, I'm sad that it lost 1 WS and didn't gain +1 BS like the vanilla ones did. Add that to the list I made in my last post, actually.

Oh, and that we lost the FnP bubbles from our priests, just another unnecessary thing, same with the stupid HG load-out. They tried to fix things that weren't broken, but gave our armies a distinctive flavour on top. Basically the cherries on the cake. Now we just have cake, which is alright since I love cake, but the cake is a lie.

I like the sound of formations that allow us to deepstrike with regular units from turn 1, but then I kinda don't like formations I think. I like the Baal detachment way too much to lose the boni. In my eyes, what's the point of deepstriking lot's of assaulty units on turn 1 if they don't get the +1 init on the charge?

Anyways. The fact that Captains are so much better than their last incarnations is a blessing, for me at least. Cheap librarians and a nice psychic discipline was about time, and even though we lost the FnP bubble the +1 WS from the grail is damn sweet. +1 WS for the squad and a 6" FnP bubble apparently would've been too much to ask for.

I think I'll come to the conclusion that I've got mixed feelings about the codex. I love many changes, and loathe some others. Until I get used to the things we gained, I think I'll still be disappointed by the things we lost.

Snorri

[Shaezus]

@cor3y....the point I was making was that even two meltacide pods is still less PV than an IK. Obviously a 5 man meltacide on its own won't do the job.

 

So yeah, that and a Sicaran with SoM LoG combined should see that IK down between them.

 

Try taking a Damocles for sniping. Or you can try blood lance, as it hits every model underneath it.

 

I'm playing in an eldar-dominated major tourny in five days. A few IK there too. Will show you what I'm obviously failing to put into words.

[Frater Cornelius]

@cor3y....the point I was making was that even two meltacide pods is still less PV than an IK. Obviously a 5 man meltacide on its own won't do the job.

 

So yeah, that and a Sicaran with SoM LoG combined should see that IK down between them.

 

Try taking a Damocles for sniping. Or you can try blood lance, as it hits every model underneath it.

 

I'm playing in an eldar-dominated major tourny in five days. A few IK there too. Will show you what I'm obviously failing to put into words.

 

I am curious how it will go.

[Bartali]

I don't like it.

 

It's a bland codex and relies on formations and detachments to give it flavour, of which only one I'd ever consider running. Try as I might, I can't get past a monobuild.

The 5th codex had a good number of builds that actually worked on the tabletop, and you could tell real effort was put into the codex to get these to work. The 7th ed codex feels like a lazy copy and paste, with changes put in for standards sake, rather than to create fun for the players

[GrunTeufel]

I have yet to understand what this "flavor" is that we lost. I've been playing since 3rd edition. For a guy like me, ASM troops was a new concept when it first came to be. To me blood angels was always about fast moving half mad but noble marines. We still have death (now actually affordable no less) company and compared to olden days gained so much stuff like useful furioso/libby dreads, great hq's, and nice army wide rules. It is just like third edition now and I love it. Maybe it's just me.

[Frater Cornelius]

I have yet to understand what this "flavor" is that we lost. I've been playing since 3rd edition. For a guy like me, ASM troops was a new concept when it first came to be. To me blood angels was always about fast moving half mad but noble marines. We still have death (now actually affordable no less) company and compared to olden days gained so much stuff like useful furioso/libby dreads, great hq's, and nice army wide rules. It is just like third edition now and I love it. Maybe it's just me.

 

I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

[hairojin]

I love it. It's almost everything I was hoping for and some nice surprises that I didn't see coming. But then again I like the new direction GW has been taking with balancing the codexes. I don't see the blandness some people are talking about, instead I see lots of options and different valid builds instead of monobuilds in the old way of writing codexes.

 

It's not perfect and it has some drawbacks like lack of anti air, this is one of the things that gives it character. I never wanted a codex that would destroy every opponent in every game, that's the reason I shelved my Eldar and Necrons before them, it led to boring games. In short, I haven't been this excited with the game since FW's Horus Heresy was released.

[SamaNagol]

I'm telling you, if you are looking to compete against top tier builds, that melta pod spam list with the Nipple Guard unit is the way to go. 9 Meltaguns dropping down will do a great job of clearing some threats and needs to be dealt with in the return fire. You need target saturation to get Sanguinary Guard into combat.

 

I'm actually trying to test a list with numerous MSU Death Company jumpers for that reason. 6 man units are ridiculously cheap. Multiple threats to deal with. Haven't cracked it yet though.

[JamesI]

For me, I became a BA player during the pdf codex. My list now feels a lot like that list had, a jumpy DC, a jumpy Vet assault squad (SG in this codex), 1 assault squad and some tacs in rhinos backed up with tanks. Pretty much what I run now.

[Blindhamster]

Count me in the happy crowd. The codex is fun and feels like it works well so far. Like some others I think a big part of it is still where you started BA. Those that played back from 2nd ed or mini dex days are happy as it's not all that different from back then, we kept most of the cool bits introduced in the last codex which is also great, losing access to lots of priests is a shame but really not that huge a loss. As I've always accepted my BA as a codex chapter I have plenty of tactical marines too, so that wasn't a bother to me either... I always loved my sanguinary guard but they became pretty poor when 6th ed BRB came out. It's nice that they are worth using again. Dante finally is back to his glory days which also rocks.

[Bartali]

 

I have yet to understand what this "flavor" is that we lost. I've been playing since 3rd edition. For a guy like me, ASM troops was a new concept when it first came to be. To me blood angels was always about fast moving half mad but noble marines. We still have death (now actually affordable no less) company and compared to olden days gained so much stuff like useful furioso/libby dreads, great hq's, and nice army wide rules. It is just like third edition now and I love it. Maybe it's just me.

 

I guess it is all a matter of perspective.

 

 

Indeed.

 

I'm telling you, if you are looking to compete against top tier builds, that melta pod spam list with the Nipple Guard unit is the way to go. 9 Meltaguns dropping down will do a great job of clearing some threats and needs to be dealt with in the return fire. You need target saturation to get Sanguinary Guard into combat.

 

I'm actually trying to test a list with numerous MSU Death Company jumpers for that reason. 6 man units are ridiculously cheap. Multiple threats to deal with. Haven't cracked it yet though.

 

Yeah that's kind of where I'm thinking. Fill up elites with MSU DC, fill up fast with bikers (podded Melta ASM aren't good in my meta), mandatory 2x scouts, a hq. After that though, there's not a lot in the BA codex I fancy. Allied Knight is my current thinking.

At higher points values I can see myself taking an additional SM CAD with Centurions and Bikers, using the BA fast slots for pods

[Joasht]

I have yet to understand what this "flavor" is that we lost. I've been playing since 3rd edition. For a guy like me, ASM troops was a new concept when it first came to be. To me blood angels was always about fast moving half mad but noble marines. We still have death (now actually affordable no less) company and compared to olden days gained so much stuff like useful furioso/libby dreads, great hq's, and nice army wide rules. It is just like third edition now and I love it. Maybe it's just me.

100% agree, as a person who started in 2nd and played the 3rd ed dex to death.

 

I'm pretty happy with this current codex; it's still a faster and more melee-orientated army.

 

If you think about it, for those of us who played in 3rd, the reasons why we might find the current codex enjoyable is because of the numerous similarities between the two codices (at least, from my perspective):

1) We are back to taking Scouts as troops (back when Troops were a tax and Scouts gave you a more efficient means of gaining DC).

2) Our DC are back to using Jump Packs (which were inexplicably free back in the days when Assault Marines were like 25 points/model).

3) We actually play DC (certainly better than my DC-less 5th ed dex days).

4) I5 on the charge is something we regained.

5) FNP bubbles were never a thing in 3rd.

6) A personal point, but the loss of FA Baals doesn't bother me much since the Baal was horrible in 3rd.

 

No Rhino Rush, but then again that's something that we all understand will never return :P

 

So, it could be nostalgia affecting my happiness with the codex.

[SamaNagol]

 

Yeah that's kind of where I'm thinking. Fill up elites with MSU DC, fill up fast with bikers (podded Melta ASM aren't good in my meta), mandatory 2x scouts, a hq. After that though, there's not a lot in the BA codex I fancy. Allied Knight is my current thinking.

At higher points values I can see myself taking an additional SM CAD with Centurions and Bikers, using the BA fast slots for pods

 

 

As you don't need the Baal detachment to be 'Primary' for any warlord stuff, I was looking at a Khan + MSU bikes CAD backed up by the aforementioned MSU stuff. I know it's not BA primary but that is such a dated idea in multi detachment 40k.

[Morticon]

 

..... I know it's not BA primary but that is such a dated idea in multi detachment 40k.

 

You know you're so right, and i still just cant shake that feeling ><; 

[Frater Cornelius]

Paint everything in BA colours and give the WS element BA names. Problem solved :P

[Cor3y]

I'm telling you, if you are looking to compete against top tier builds, that melta pod spam list with the Nipple Guard unit is the way to go. 9 Meltaguns dropping down will do a great job of clearing some threats and needs to be dealt with in the return fire. You need target saturation to get Sanguinary Guard into combat.

 

I'm actually trying to test a list with numerous MSU Death Company jumpers for that reason. 6 man units are ridiculously cheap. Multiple threats to deal with. Haven't cracked it yet though.

Just for a reference...

 

Today I was spectating a 1850points, and the top 2 list where: double Nemesis strike force with Draigo, and a 6x Wolf Lord (fully equipped), 12 wolf riders with DA allies with ravenwing squad (to reduce the T of opposing stuff to enable easy instant deaths) and something like an DA Apotecary.

both no brainer lists that get in your face turn 2, high invuls and high output damage... Mutch higher and well guarded as well then any list I could imagine with our codex...

 

Other players: 2IK plus 2DK and terminators, WhiteScars gravbikes with double chapter master (why the heck can they play 2, both with Eternal warrior, while Mephiston Himself is not an Eternal Warrior remains a mystery to me...) and Land raider with Centurions and Tigurius, Gravbikes + Centurions yet again, strangely without Tigurius, a Classical Tau list that died to the other Ally-Combos and a few for fun players with interesting lists that got completely whiped by turn 2...

No demons of any kind strangely or Nids... 90% where abusing the Imperial Factions with their battle brother shenanigans...

 

 

I really would love not to be negative, but I would like someone to show me the math of how our squishy noInvul Sanguinary Guard with Strenght 4 AP3 could be in any way competitive... To get VP3 MasterCrafted we get Unwieldy and S4.. so many things just negate the 2+ Armor and an eventual FNP roll, that it's just a big waiste of points, unless you plan to charge sub-par units with it (If you manage to charge them.... I really hope you don't DS them!).

How do you play them? Swords, axes or fists?

 

just my 2 cents from a perspective of a player that loves BA, but doesn't feel to be Squished like a mosquito every time...

Maybe I'm unable to play well, it could be, but I'm really discouraged...

[Zembar]

-Fragioso Dreads are ok. But they took a points increase and a stats decrease. And they are in a packed Elites slot. I actually quite like double Heavy Flamer Fist Furiosos. Rending templates are cool and all, but 2 S5 AP4 templates are doing more to the sort of units you will see on objectives. If you want anti tank, see Melta Pod Assault Marines.

This is slightly off-topic, but I see a lot of people talking about dual-flamer furiosos. Am I missing something, because to me it seems you're not allowed to swap both weapons for flamers, just one?

 

Am I just reading it wrong?

[SamaNagol]

*deleted*

[toaae]

I love the new codex. It is a throwback to the 3rd edition codex, and the days of the PDF. One of the things that drew me to the Sons of Sanguinius was the look of the all-red army with the one black squad.

And for all the good, character the 5th edition codex had, it lacked that black squad for me. I barely used DC in that book,  and not at all after the first few months, when I decided TH/SS termies were better out of a Raven. Now, with 3 point Jump Packs, I am building a brand new DC squad, replacing those old metal models that haven't aged well (with my old Lemartes; disco fever!).

 

My favorite thing the 5th edition codex brought in was the SanGuard. Lo and behold! The new codex improves them in the simplest ways! More bodies is great, even if I'm not excited about paint more mass gold, and less points is great. I really wish I could take Power Lances with them, as that would a.) work very well with Dante and Hit & Run, and b.) look hella-awesome.

I've always, from the 3rd edition days, been a Tactical-squads-for-troops guy, so the PDF's and 5th's ASM as troops was never a big deal for me. As such, the troop choices don't bother me at all. In fact, my only issue with troops is that 7th undid was 5th did for troops: they are a tax. I can't see a reason to ever take more than two tactical squads, especially in the new detachment. I like Tactical squads, I like the support they provide. But I can't ever see filling up anywhere near the 6 choices we're always given.

 

And that new detachment. Old Furious charge, how I missed thee.

 

 

 

-Fragioso Dreads are ok. But they took a points increase and a stats decrease. And they are in a packed Elites slot. I actually quite like double Heavy Flamer Fist Furiosos. Rending templates are cool and all, but 2 S5 AP4 templates are doing more to the sort of units you will see on objectives. If you want anti tank, see Melta Pod Assault Marines.

This is slightly off-topic, but I see a lot of people talking about dual-flamer furiosos. Am I missing something, because to me it seems you're not allowed to swap both weapons for flamers, just one?

Am I just reading it wrong?

 

 

"May choose one of the following:"

 

Yeah, I don't know how you get two flamers either.