A month in, are people happy with the new Codex?

[SamaNagol]

I dont know what I was reading lol I feel rather embarrassed now. I saw the two options there and my mind's eye conveniently deleted the 'Choose one'.

[Terminus]

Moving DC and ASM out of troops is so limiting

I wish Blood Angels players would stop harping about the FOC change for Assault Squads. The ruleset available to the brood of Sanguinius is so flexible, you can field as many damn Assault Squads as you want. Granted, it would be awesome to field a bunch of 5-man assault squads with 2 special weapons in drop pods, with everyone having Objective Secured, but you can't have everything, and that stinks of 5th Ed Space Wolf tactics anyway. If you are really that gung-ho about assault, you probably want the Baal Strike Force for the Red Thirst, so you aren't Securing any Objectives anyway. If you really really hate tactical marines, take Archangel's Strike Force for 1HQ and 2 elite choices as your core detachment, and then use any of the number of Formations that give you lots of Assault Squads. I like the Archangels Sanguine Wing, because free combi-weapons for sternguard, and power weapons/lightning claws for vanguard is pretty awesome. The other one I like is the Angel's Wrath Intervention Force from WD47, where you can deep strike a Vanguard squad, and then put two assault squads without scatter within 6" of them, and then every enemy model within 6" takes a S4 hit and that whole area becomes difficult terrain for enemies only.

 

As far as missing the toys like Centurions and Stormtalons, you can bring them as allies. The Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing gives you the less bland Stormraven you are craving, and a couple of Strafing Run Storm Talons to boot. Clan Stroganoff Chapter Master, Scouts with FNP in LSStorm with It Will not Die, a Stormtalon also with It Will not Die, and Grav-Centurions with FNP who can go in a Blood Angels Drop Pod give you some serious beef if you are willing to pay for it (and since you want to field these things, clearly you are?). Don't want to use another line of geneseed? Okay, paint them red and say the allies are yet another Successor Chapter who were fooled into thinking they were sired by another Primarch. There are already Ultramarine Blood Angels in the Codex, what's wrong with a few Iron Hands joining the party?

 

Blood Angels have some of the best plastic kits around (yes, even the nipple armor), they got some great new rules, and the 7th edition rules let you bring whatever you want that they didn't happen to include. The only things truly sad in the codex are Tycho, and Sanguinary Priests being 1 per HQ slot (these slots being the only ones still somewhat in short supply). Now, I'm sure you'll say something about how your local players refuse formations and dataslates and only play book missions. In which case I offer you my condolensces for having a close-minded, fun-hating playerbase, but it's them you should be angry with, not GW.

[Morticon]

^ post of the day.

[toaae]

I dont know what I was reading lol I feel rather embarrassed now. I saw the two options there and my mind's eye conveniently deleted the 'Choose one'.

 

It happens to the best of us.

 

One thing I forgot to mention in my post: my one big downside is no Stormtalon. I just wanted them so bad!

[knife&fork]

I'm noticing a trend so far with the new codex....

Every time I go jump heavy I lose. Every time I leave the lib dread in the case I lose.

Jumpers became irrelevant to me when 6th hit, and the very small point reduction didn't make a bad unit good again. Kind sad because I like jump packs, but wishing that they are good doesn't make them so.

I haven't tried really spamming jump DC yet, like 3*10. That might work?

Without the Lib dread I don't have a proper beatstick, and thus no way to deal with MCs and other tough targets in a timely manner. I need to finish up some gravgun equipped models.

I really struggle with the troops selection as well. The loss of DC units and razor assault squads here was a severe blow IMHO. I might just go with squad Rafen and Castor from now on so I can get to the important stuff in the other slots.

Has anyone had any luck at all with our new troops selection or is it just tax and dead weight?

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Not sure about that hey! Didnt work out the points, but i think 24 dropping melta will wreck face of most people :/  

 

If this was 5th ed, I would have been inclined to agree with you. But it's not. The only reason to take melta is if you want to assault. Otherwise, gravguns and plasma are just better for the threats we face in 7th.

thought, the criticism and concerns about SG are still valid.  It's why I like the priest with them.  Dante or a tanky captain is good too. 

 

It helps, but its just throwing more points at a problem and hoping it goes away.

 

[Deschenus Maximus]

 

Yeah that's kind of where I'm thinking. Fill up elites with MSU DC, fill up fast with bikers (podded Melta ASM aren't good in my meta), mandatory 2x scouts, a hq. After that though, there's not a lot in the BA codex I fancy. Allied Knight is my current thinking.

At higher points values I can see myself taking an additional SM CAD with Centurions and Bikers, using the BA fast slots for pods

 

 

I've been thinking that Command Squads might end up being superior to DC. They lose some of the punch and Fearless, but I gather being able to take Stormshields and full-sized Melta probably makes up for it.

[knife&fork]

Have to agree on the SG.

Again, love the models, but game wise they are pretty terrible. Not a cost effective way to kill off hordes, too weak and fragile to go after anything elite.

Depends on the meta I guess, but I've run them twice in different configs and it feels like I'm actively handicapping myself.

I haven't tried running a barebones squad in a storm raven yet, that's about the best way I can think of using them?

[Ishagu]

I've seen Sanguinary Guard run with Dante, a priest and a banner. Very impressive unit with a lot of punch and high number of attacks.

 

Deepstrike into cover and attack when the moment is right. Simply jumping around the board will get them killed, but same can be said for anything...

[knife&fork]

I've seen Sanguinary Guard run with Dante, a priest and a banner. Very impressive unit with a lot of punch and high number of attacks.

 

Deepstrike into cover and attack when the moment is right. Simply jumping around the board will get them killed, but same can be said for anything...

 

I've used them that way and it didn't impress. The other time was a slightly less blinged unit without priest and Dante. Like I said, too expensive for hunting bad units, too weak to hunt anything good. 

 

That S4 and WS4 is a real deal-breaker for me. 

[Ishagu]

Mastercrafted weapons and furious charge mitigate your complaint.

[Shaezus]

Knife&fork, about that beat-stick you said you're missing? I think the solution here also ties in with the otherwise pointless SG: Dante.

 

S7 on the charge, AP2 and I7, plus quickening and banner and all of it, and he doesn't risk being handicapped after taking a wound. All he needs is a durable retinue, and IMO a ten-man SG is ideal for this.

 

What I'm saying is that the two are made for each other and are nada without. Yes the points soon build up but it depends on your priorities, and there's also an understated degree of flexibility with this unit.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

 

I've seen Sanguinary Guard run with Dante, a priest and a banner. Very impressive unit with a lot of punch and high number of attacks.

 

Deepstrike into cover and attack when the moment is right. Simply jumping around the board will get them killed, but same can be said for anything...

 

I've used them that way and it didn't impress. The other time was a slightly less blinged unit without priest and Dante. Like I said, too expensive for hunting bad units, too weak to hunt anything good. 

 

That S4 and WS4 is a real deal-breaker for me. 

 

 

The unit as described, which includes a priest, has WS5 from the priest and S5 on the charge. Plus the master-crafted mentioned by Ishagu.  So those deal breakers actually don't apply to do any breaking.

[knife&fork]

Mastercrafted weapons and furious charge mitigate your complaint.

Not really, IMHO the base stats aren't nearly good enough for the kind of points you invest in them.

The Dante caddy with a priest and banner starts at almost 500 pts! That's an awful lot for a non shooty unit that will still bounce off massed good invuls, invisibility or even a souped up daemon prince.

....and they still die like just a normal 14 pt marine to the plentiful AP2 out there. Thanks but no thanks.

[Deschenus Maximus]

@knife&fork: Agreed. I'll bet with anybody that is willing that not a single list that places well in a major tournament come this time next year has any SG in it.

[Emperors Immortals]

@knife&fork - i've been taking Rafen and Castor because I just cant not do so. The chance to take 2 expensive Elite units as troops is just to good.

 

Theres 2 great units straight away, adding a Librarian with Angels Wing to go with the DC and a storm raven to carry Castor and a CC scout unit and add AA.

 

Im taking a librarian dread as well, he and Castor swap between a pod and the raven. I add a meltacide pod and a gravgun bike unit and ive still got points to spare.

 

I just dont quite know what to take after this set up though, AV13 seems good, but then I want to footslog the dreads and use the Raven points for something else.

 

Perhaps I should build this list with a detachment like the Sanguine Wing added?

 

As soon as I play a few good games, ill post some batrep's.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

@knife&fork: Agreed. I'll bet with anybody that is willing that not a single list that places well in a major tournament come this time next year has any SG in it.

 

Well, that seals it.

 

I had been waffling for a while now about whether to bring my Inquisition + Militarum Tempestus army, or my Blood Angels to Astronomi-con this year. I think I'm definitely going to bring my BA in an attempt to prove you naysayers wrong, bringing a list with Dante + SG as the centrepiece plus lots of jump troops and no pods.

 

Maybe I won't "place well" ... although I guess that is part of why we seem to be arguing past each other. I don't need to place in the top 1/3 of a tournament to have fun. I placed very near the bottom with my DKoK in last year's Astronomi-con but had an absolute blast. I am pretty sure that my BA will out-perform the DKoK though. Top third placing or maybe even an award? We shall see!

 

Consider your post a challenge that I have accepted. Better get painting -- my army used to be Dantewing so I've got a full 20 tacticals and 15 ASM to paint in order to be ready.

[JamesI]

Good luck!

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Good luck!

Thanks!

Fortunately I have some time ... they haven't announced when Astronomi-con will be, but the Winnipeg event is usually in April and the Toronto one in July. I live about an hour from Toronto but grew up in Winnipeg so I should be able to swing one of the tournaments depending on precisely which weekend they choose for each and how that matches up with my work schedule.

I'll start a "Road to Astronomi-con" thread in the style of Morticon when I can ... maybe not for a month since I'm embroiled in a very intense situation at work currently. But I'm fired up!

[knife&fork]

 

 

Maybe I won't "place well" ... although I guess that is part of why we seem to be arguing past each other. I don't need to place in the top 1/3 of a tournament to have fun.  

 

 

It's not that extreme. I don't think that a single daemon prince with biomancy, wyverns, 3 normal grav cents or even a solitary grav bike squad is ultra competitive? At least for me that's something I would expect to find in a friendly game. All of the above is very scary even for that 500 + pt Dante + SG + Priest unit we discussed above. 

[JamesI]

I think Vanguard might end up being the more competitive option to SG due to Storm Shields (and the cheaper price if not insanely blinged), but we'll see over time.

[Deschenus Maximus]

@knife&fork - i've been taking Rafen and Castor because I just cant not do so. The chance to take 2 expensive Elite units as troops is just to good.

 

Theres 2 great units straight away, adding a Librarian with Angels Wing to go with the DC and a storm raven to carry Castor and a CC scout unit and add AA.

 

 

Raphen's DC isn't very good, truthfully speaking. It's too many toys packed into too few bodies.

 

 

Well, that seals it.

 

I had been waffling for a while now about whether to bring my Inquisition + Militarum Tempestus army, or my Blood Angels to Astronomi-con this year. I think I'm definitely going to bring my BA in an attempt to prove you naysayers wrong, bringing a list with Dante + SG as the centrepiece plus lots of jump troops and no pods.

 

Maybe I won't "place well" ... although I guess that is part of why we seem to be arguing past each other. I don't need to place in the top 1/3 of a tournament to have fun. I placed very near the bottom with my DKoK in last year's Astronomi-con but had an absolute blast. I am pretty sure that my BA will out-perform the DKoK though. Top third placing or maybe even an award? We shall see!

 

Consider your post a challenge that I have accepted. Better get painting -- my army used to be Dantewing so I've got a full 20 tacticals and 15 ASM to paint in order to be ready.

 

 

Well, I wish you luck. For what its worth, I do hope I am wrong, because I love SG as a concept.

 

I think Vanguard might end up being the more competitive option to SG due to Storm Shields (and the cheaper price if not insanely blinged), but we'll see over time.

 

Replace Vanguard with Command Squad and I agree.

[JamesI]

I think Vanguard might end up being the more competitive option to SG due to Storm Shields (and the cheaper price if not insanely blinged), but we'll see over time.

 

Replace Vanguard with Command Squad and I agree.

 

You might be right about that.  I just prefer not to have 5 man squads. 

Though the ability to have Shield and Plasma or Grav or Melta on a model is interesting.

[knife&fork]

For Dante, why not go with the simple 5 hammernators? (in a raven)  

I believe someone mentioned this just as the codex went live and I think it provides a good combo of mid strength attacks at I, high s at I1 and invul saves all around. Terminator sergeant has a decent chance of stopping or slowing something you're not comfortable tanking with dante. Should he fail the entire squad still has their invuls as well. 

 

Keep SG relatively cheap and pair them with a priest or librarian. 

[Shaezus]

 

@knife&fork: Agreed. I'll bet with anybody that is willing that not a single list that places well in a major tournament come this time next year has any SG in it.

 Well, that seals it. I had been waffling for a while now about whether to bring my Inquisition + Militarum Tempestus army, or my Blood Angels to Astronomi-con this year. I think I'm definitely going to bring my BA in an attempt to prove you naysayers wrong, bringing a list with Dante + SG as the centrepiece plus lots of jump troops and no pods. Maybe I won't "place well" ... although I guess that is part of why we seem to be arguing past each other. I don't need to place in the top 1/3 of a tournament to have fun. I placed very near the bottom with my DKoK in last year's Astronomi-con but had an absolute blast. I am pretty sure that my BA will out-perform the DKoK though. Top third placing or maybe even an award? We shall see! Consider your post a challenge that I have accepted. Better get painting -- my army used to be Dantewing so I've got a full 20 tacticals and 15 ASM to paint in order to be ready.

Count me in!

 

I'm at a tpurny this weekend with 180 players including reps from the US and Canadian teams plus a lot of ETC bods. I'll be lucky to get in the top 60 at any rate. 33 eldar, 22 tau and 21 SM top the list, with only 8 BA. I couldn't give a hoot about seeing my own name up there but seriously what mptivates me is seeing 'Blood Angels' right there on paper near the top.

 

I'll take up that challenge over the SG with relish. Thanks for the extra motivation.

 

@knife&fork - many things will bounce of invis units. But a souped-up Dante will beat a souped-up DP, np. Anyway, I look forward to posting my batreps and receiving the naysayers' grumbles of acknowledgement or howls of glee as appropriate.

 

Ps sorry for poor spelling but this new phone is a SERIOUS PAIN IN THE [sounds like but] for correcting those so forgive me peeps.