A month in, are people happy with the new Codex?

[ThatOneMarshal]

I always laugh when people say that the flavor of the book has been toned down because I play templars. We lost our codex and hopes of a new one. Also remeber that there will probably be an 8th edition blood angels book and who knows maybe you get your flavor back. for templars I can't even hope we get a supplement becuase we might get the iron hands treatment. Also for 500 points you guys can get the 10 man sanguinary squad with all the character for 500 points I get a 15 man crusade squad with power weapons and seargent in a LRC oh and the crusader squads damage ability is basically the same as a blood angels assualt squad. Fuuny enough the reason why that build is strong is becuase of the objective secured land raider, the crusader squad is for protection. But I forgot I can't complain becuase we have all of the same toys as regular space marines. The only problem is that they literally do everything we can do but better.

 

Back on topic

I said it in another thread but I like the codex it probably the best 7th edition codex next to

Maybe space wolves but that's not saying much. The old dex had more cool army lists that you could do. If I wanted I could do a dreadnought list If I wanted to crap on the iron hands player, a sanguinary guard list, death company list ( can still be achieved and a lot better now), land raider spam army if I wanted to crap on any templars in the room, blood rodeo, jumper spam( lot weaker now it seems), av 13 spam, razor spam and any combo you could think of using those. However I got to look at the old PDF for 4th edition I think? Looking at that and this codex they seem to look very close together. I personally feel that blood angels assualt marines are now good for two things, one being meatshields for other jumpers and the other being the 5 man pod/ packs deep striking with melta. When the dex first came out I thought that vanguard veterans were going to be used somewhat like the old veteran assualt squads but then I saw the DC. Wieners are they good now with packs. I see myself focusing more on them and using assualt marines as melta delivery. Also after playing assualt templars blood angels feel like easy mode when it comes to actually getting into combat for most of the units.

[bis5523]

Was sad at first and then i took it to my hobby shop played a couple games versus Mech guard, Draigo Dreadknights and Termies, and some imperial fists i was overall pleased with how hard we hit in assault. I have played 6 games with the new dex so far and have only lost 2 times! Against Mech guard take pods of heavy flmers and melta marines. shoot the tank in rear armor then if you dont kill it rip it apart with your bare cermite guantlets bc Furious charge. Take 15 DC against GK and run them in to whatever as long as you have a priest with them. Take a battle forged list and they are WS 5 I5. I took out 7 GK termies in one turn with 15 DC 2 fists and a priest with a fist. DC are a beat train that has NO brakes!!! against Imperial fists bury their tacticals in assault with anything you got! Loving the new dex it gives us BA players a very assaulty playstyle now. Cant wait to DEEP FRY some 'nids with MOAR FLEMERRS!!!

[bis5523]

I'm noticing a trend so far with the new codex....

Every time I go jump heavy I lose. Every time I leave the lib dread in the case I lose.

Jumpers became irrelevant to me when 6th hit, and the very small point reduction didn't make a bad unit good again. Kind sad because I like jump packs, but wishing that they are good doesn't make them so.

I haven't tried really spamming jump DC yet, like 3*10. That might work?

Without the Lib dread I don't have a proper beatstick, and thus no way to deal with MCs and other tough targets in a timely manner. I need to finish up some gravgun equipped models.

I really struggle with the troops selection as well. The loss of DC units and razor assault squads here was a severe blow IMHO. I might just go with squad Rafen and Castor from now on so I can get to the important stuff in the other slots.

Has anyone had any luck at all with our new troops selection or is it just tax and dead weight?

As for troops I have been taking 10 man tac squads in a pod w/ melta gun and HVY flamer (195 pts )

They can deal with just about anything, I mainly tank hunt with them but the HVY flamer gives them some versatility

There is a condensed version of this which is a 5 man Tac squad in a pod SGT with 2 Melta pistols and a HVY flamer (135 pts)[maybe add melta bombs?]

Also If you take a battle forged army they don't do terrible in combat going at I5 it has saved my rear end a couple times

I haven't messed around with scouts yet so not sure what to do there.

Hope this helps...

[bis5523]

I'm telling you, if you are looking to compete against top tier builds, that melta pod spam list with the Nipple Guard unit is the way to go. 9 Meltaguns dropping down will do a great job of clearing some threats and needs to be dealt with in the return fire. You need target saturation to get Sanguinary Guard into combat.

I'm actually trying to test a list with numerous MSU Death Company jumpers for that reason. 6 man units are ridiculously cheap. Multiple threats to deal with. Haven't cracked it yet though.

let us know when you do please!!

[Venemox]

So far, so good.  I've been running two Tac squads with flamers, missile launchers and rhino; a unit of Sang Guard (6 or 7 strong, banner, one fist, one inferno pistol) with Dante and a JP Libby (staff and JP relic, ML 2, rolling sanguinary); a unit of hammerantors with a Term Libby (axe and shield, ML2 on sanguinary), two Ball preds in a dakka configuration, and a Storm Raven (in higher point games) or melta attack bikes (lower point games).  No upgrades on my Tac sarges, except teleport homer for the termies.

 

Played in a  3 way 1500 point game (Orks and CSM) and an 1850 match against Khârn and the Crimson Slaughter.  Won both handily.  The three way match up was Maelstrom of War: Deadlock and the 1850 match was Eternal war: the Emperor's Will.  

 

Eternal Warrior has saved Date's bacon several times, and there's nothing quite like casting Wings on a 2+ save unit the turn they drop onto the table to shore up lanes of assault and provide cover for other units.  I think I sank only one piece of armor with the Blood Lance in both games, not for lack of targets or attempts.  Too many ways to fail for that to be a WC2 power you can't spam.  I'll take Quickening over Unleash rage any day (Dante with 9 attacks on the charge at I10/9 and AP2).  Gallian's Staff helps get the WC2 powers off more reliably, and the Angel's Wing is great, especially with reduced scatter and reserve manipulation (I need to remember to do this!).

 

So, yes, there are certainly differences I need to get used to, but I think I'm going to enjoy this new codex very much.

[Cronhour]

I'm noticing a trend so far with the new codex.... 

 

Every time I go jump heavy I lose. Every time I leave the lib dread in the case I lose. 

 

Jumpers became irrelevant to me when 6th hit, and the very small point reduction didn't make a bad unit good again. Kind sad because I like jump packs, but wishing that they are good doesn't make them so. :mellow: 

I haven't tried really spamming jump DC yet, like 3*10. That might work? 

 

Without the Lib dread I don't have a proper beatstick, and thus no way to deal with MCs and other tough targets in a timely manner. I need to finish up some gravgun equipped models.

 

 

I really struggle with the troops selection as well. The loss of DC units and razor assault squads here was a severe blow IMHO. I might just go with squad Rafen and Castor from now on so I can get to the important stuff in the other slots. 

 

Has anyone had any luck at all with our new troops selection or is it just tax and dead weight?

 

Heavy flamer tacs in pod with corbulo works well, corbs provides FnP for durability and an Aoe initiative bubble which helps a lot with getting charged after dropping, against marines the extra wS and initiative does make a difference.

Incidentally I used 3 x 10 man jump dc in the same list, 1 sword 2 fists in each. they did some great work.

[Cronhour]

 

I've seen Sanguinary Guard run with Dante, a priest and a banner. Very impressive unit with a lot of punch and high number of attacks.

Deepstrike into cover and attack when the moment is right. Simply jumping around the board will get them killed, but same can be said for anything...

 

 

I've used them that way and it didn't impress. The other time was a slightly less blinged unit without priest and Dante. Like I said, too expensive for hunting bad units, too weak to hunt anything good. 

 

That S4 and WS4 is a real deal-breaker for me.

I ran them with a libby as well, and 8 men strong, they do well against str, wS, int 5 on the charge and a buffed Dante is great for mulching the heavier stuff (str 7 wS 7 with up to 10 attacks at up to I 10 on the charge is a challange for most things.) FnP makes the unit durable although I can't see myself using them at the moment, my focus for now is to throw as many FnP bodies on the field as possible and aim to strike first, so corbs, priest with tacs and assault in pods and dc jumping up. I think we're a codex of synergy, we don't have the standout iwin button unit lists like grav centurions or wave serpent spam but you can build some strong lists that can react to different opponents when built and played well, which is what I'd rather have to be honest the. Stuck playing the same way over and over again for the next 2 years.

[Shaezus]

That's the thing that strikes me also; the strong synergy in the dex. Jump units on their own would be total pants, but back them up with our good range of strong pod units, bikes or mech and we are an army designed to take on all comers - fliers excepted - and that's what I love about the new dex.

[SamaNagol]

Dude, that Sanguinary Guard unit with Dante, Priest and Banner will turn an entire Guard blob into red paste in 2 rounds of combat. I dunno how you aren't killing massed infantry with it.

 

And it wrecks the face of elite units too. I5 is so powerful on them.

 

Sanguinary Guard need all of those cumulative buffs to work though. I wouldnt run them on their own.

[Jolemai]

I wrote this three months ago:

 

 

 

Having had time to digest the Codex there aren't too many nerfs at all really. Most of the them are simply changes that bring us into line with the other Chapter's Codicies and our Wardisms have been reigned in and/or realigned. Coupled with (in most cases) a price drop, I'm quite happy with the new book.

 

and I still stand by it. Whilst I've not had the pleasure of testing everything in my collection out yet, I am encouraged by my increase in performance and competitiveness. I adore the points decrease, I really enjoy having my Tactical Squads (of which I have lots) become useful again and I'm excited by the challenge presented on how to get my previous lists working in the next book.

 

Many people have said that we have become a mono-build and how our previous Codex offered more flexibility and competitiveness. With respect, I feel this is short sighted. Outside of Morticon's exploits, we have been too overpriced to be competitive for a while now. DC and SG builds were nothing but fun/fluffy builds and outside of using Allies, we really couldn't compete. Today, we see a wealth of options still to be explored, DC and SG have been tweaked to become on the whole more useful and out changes have breathed life into what essentially stagnation of the game for us. We can hold out own amongst many of the 7th edition Codices and have a better chance of mauling the 6th edition power creep codices. Got to be a win there.

 

Many people have sighted a perceived lack of flavour. Just by losing our Wardisms, we have not lost our flavour. Far from it, we have become what we historically are, a close range force with a tendency to wreck havoc in combat. That is our role and one we excel at. Not only that, but have you heard anyone wish we were had Ravenguard Chapter Tactics in the past month? No, me neither and long may it continue! We are unique and have become better. What more can you want?

[SamaNagol]

Assault Marines as Troops was never a Ward change. Not sure why people think that.

[toaae]

It was a Jervis change.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Whoever was responsible for the ASM as troops change, I am completely fine with them reverting to fast attack. The Blood Angels have always been described as a codex-adhering chapter, therefore it seems fitting to me that tacticals be the go-to troops choice.

[knife&fork]

As for the ASM as troops change.... I think it should be pointed out that this is the first time since Blood Angels ever exsisted as a separate faction that I'm 'forced' to go with tacticals or scouts. 

 

It's not some one off thing. 

 

RT, 2nd, 3rd (except a few months before we got a dex at all), 4th, 5th 6th and the beginning of 7th. 

 

Assault marines as troops = decades

Assault marines not as troops = months

 

 

 

@knife&fork - many things will bounce of invis units. But a souped-up Dante will beat a souped-up DP, np.  

 

 

A DP with biomancy has a decent shot at killing Dante before he even gets to strike, or kill an entire unit of SG if you don't use him to tank. DP will also have some daemonic gifts to top it off. 

 

 

Dude, that Sanguinary Guard unit with Dante, Priest and Banner will turn an entire Guard blob into red paste in 2 rounds of combat. I dunno how you aren't killing massed infantry with it.

 

 

I guess you could say that they are a solution to a problem that I don't have?  At the end of the day they are still T4 models with one wound and no invul. I get that people really want SG to be good, but take a step back and consider how much better you can do elsewhere in our codex for the same points.   

[Jolemai]

Assault Marines as Troops was never a Ward change. Not sure why people think that.

It was a Jervis change.

I never said it was

He was responsible for for moving DC from Elites to Troops (just like he had done with Witch Elves in fantasy and like it did there, completely shifted things around. However, I digress...), Tycho, Mephiston and Lemartes becoming godlike, RAS gaining the Razorback transport option, and so on. Ward shifted the focus towards assault and whilst fun, it got rewound by Jervis and his 2-4 man design team to what we have now.

We've not become vanilla ice cream with a red coloured sauce, we are still strawberry. Embrace that.

[SamaNagol]

DC have been in almost every slot.

 

And the 'BA are a Codex chapter' line doesnt wash when they don't have standard codex chapter units like Cents, Talons, LSS and Thunderfires to name a few.

[Jolemai]

DC have been in almost every slot.

Second edition, Angels of Death

~ Squads, 0-1

Third edition

~ No slot, generated via a random roll or D3+3 per Chaplain. (Deployed during HQ deployment where relevant.)

Fourth edition

~ No slot, counts as Elites for all intents and purposes. Generated 1 per unit, purchased more

Fifth edition

~ Troops, 0-1 which Astorath removed.

Seventh edition

~ Elites

They really haven't been in almost every slot and people are complaining about them "going back to" the Elites slot. Saying they have been everywhere is irrelevant.

And the 'BA are a Codex chapter' line doesnt wash when they don't have standard codex chapter units like Cents, Talons, LSS and Thunderfires to name a few.

Where do you get that from this?

We've not become vanilla ice cream with a red coloured sauce, we are still strawberry. Embrace that.

No one is saying we are a Codex chapter

[SamaNagol]

Whoever was responsible for the ASM as troops change, I am completely fine with them reverting to fast attack. The Blood Angels have always been described as a codex-adhering chapter, therefore it seems fitting to me that tacticals be the go-to troops choice.

No one is saying we are a Codex chapter

One of many posts I have seen on multiple forums saying we are a Codex chapter so it is good that Assault Marines are not Troops.

[Xenith]

 

 

Assault marines as troops = decades

Assault marines not as troops = months

 

 

 

Massive hyperbole there. Also, you really cannot measure it in editions of 40k, but in editions of the codex, after all, that is when the codex gets updated.

 

Assault marines as fast attack - 1999 (3rd ed release) to 2008 (pdf release) which is 9 years.

 

Assault marines as troops - 2008 - 2014 - 6 years.

 

If assault marines were FA in RT-2nd ed, then the former is an even longer time.

 

Got one game in with the new codex against the store's unbeated TauCron player. I beat him, albeit because the game had to end before T4.

 

It was bloody, and I got shot to pieces in T1 and 2, but we knew the game was ending at the end of T3 and I outmaneuvered, and held and contested key objectives.

 

I'm happy with it

[Charlo]

DC have been in almost every slot.

And the 'BA are a Codex chapter' line doesnt wash when they don't have standard codex chapter units like Cents, Talons, LSS and Thunderfires to name a few.

True, but from the fluffy side it could be that the BA simply either don't like these units or the Admech simply doesn't provide for them as much.

While Talons are probably quite BA-y i'd much rather us have a cool new little flyer a few months down the line... Maybe something akin to an assault ramped flying razor back.

In game terms though it's balance. would you rather have pretty much the best point for point combat unit in the game for getting stuff done with the best fluff and flavour around (DC) or some squat wannabee's standing at the back winning you every game (centurions).

I know my choice

[knife&fork]

 

Assault marines as troops - 2008 - 2014 - 6 years.

 

 

 

I stand corrected in regards to 3rd ed, wasn't playing at the time. Assault squads were FA in that book. But that was the one exception until we got our new codex.

 

It doesn't matter if one thinks it's right or wrong, but saying that assault squads (and jumpers in particular) at the core of BA was just some temporary thing is incorrect. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

I wrote this three months ago:

Having had time to digest the Codex there aren't too many nerfs at all really. Most of the them are simply changes that bring us into line with the other Chapter's Codicies and our Wardisms have been reigned in and/or realigned. Coupled with (in most cases) a price drop, I'm quite happy with the new book.

Many people have sighted a perceived lack of flavour. Just by losing our Wardisms, we have not lost our flavour. Far from it, we have become what we historically are, a close range force with a tendency to wreck havoc in combat. That is our role and one we excel at. Not only that, but have you heard anyone wish we were had Ravenguard Chapter Tactics in the past month? No, me neither and long may it continue! We are unique and have become better. What more can you want?

Emphasis mine - I actually did say that, and in the past month, too! It's not that I'd like to have the RG tactics while the RG get it as well, I'd rather have it for Blood Angels only instead. Give RG something else, I don't know - infiltrating the whole army sounds nice enough?

Who could actually disagree and say they would not like to be able to move 12" and use their JP in the assault phase with their DC? I know I don't.

When you say "SM chapter that likes to get up close with jump pack units and beat the living hell out of the enemies of the Emperor with close-ranged fire support", you don't think of RG. You think of Blood Angels. That's why it's much more fitting for our chapter to have than RG.

And anyways, back in the day, our codex was the only one to sport Assault Veterans, JP Honour Guard(command squad) and a JP elite unit, the DC, so when people say they don't know why the Blood Angels ever should have gotten ASM as troops, I don't know what they're talking about. It was nice to have, mobile melta-carriers that, at least in 5th, packed a nice punch in close combat, too! When scouts where awesome, nobody played tacticals unless in rhinos for the rush, and just infiltrated up front to take out some stuff with 2 full scout squads, followed up by the rhino-rushers, jumping from combat to combat.

The Wardisms that we had - Blood Talons, wonky characters(looking at you, Angel Dude and looks-like-Meph), terrible fluff and the general army-wide rule of "your army sucks" are gone, and for good. Even though the characters are still there.

It doesn't matter if one thinks it's right or wrong, but saying that assault squads (and jumpers in particular) at the core of BA was just some temporary thing is incorrect.

This is true as well, as I pointed out above in a way. When the 5th edition codex hit, GW actually gave an explanation why RAS where found in the troops section, because they're present in every campaign and have a more versatile battlefield role than tactical squads due to their speed and weaponry. It actually made sense, in a way. We're still talking about a Wardian fluff bit here.

Snorri

[Terminus]

DC have been in almost every slot.

 

And the 'BA are a Codex chapter' line doesnt wash when they don't have standard codex chapter units like Cents, Talons, LSS and Thunderfires to name a few.

The armament of each Chapter is not identical, but depends heavily on what equipment they received when the Legions were disbanded, what campaigns the Chapter has served in since, as well as what form of warfare they chose to specialize it, as well as what relationships they have with surrounding systems, particularly those of the Mechanicus (Ultramarines are filthy rich, Iron Hands are BFF with Mars, etc.).

 

It would be really boring if every Chapter got the same stuff. Or are you saying you would have preferred if they just lumped the Blood Angels into the Space Marine book?

[Shaezus]

Who cares what SM have, when we have DC, SG, librarians in furioso armour, fast vehicles, ASM with melta, FNP, +1 I and S on charge...DANTE, and...oh sorry am I boring you?

 

Seriously people if you don't want to play with those then why bang on about it? Just pop along to the land of teletubbies where you will find just what you want. :)

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Assault marines as troops - 2008 - 2014 - 6 years.

 

 

 

I stand corrected in regards to 3rd ed, wasn't playing at the time. Assault squads were FA in that book. But that was the one exception until we got our new codex.

 

It doesn't matter if one thinks it's right or wrong, but saying that assault squads (and jumpers in particular) at the core of BA was just some temporary thing is incorrect. 

 

They weren't "troops" in second edition, either. It is a 4th edition and 5th edition codex thing only.